Trouble deciding on a breed

[ST80]

G'day, we have just bought our first home and would like our first dog but are struggling to decide on a breed/cross-breed. We really like Border Collies, Kelpies, Australian Shepherds and Blue Heelers but I know they are traditionally working class dogs and I'm worried we may not have enough space. We live in a quiet suburb in south-east Queensland, on a 760m2 property, of which the back half is fenced at the moment. We've got two teens who will hopefully help keep it active and I work from home so will be around the dog and will be able to take it out/walk it. We're within easy distance of dog parks and 30min from a dog beach. Are any of those four breeds less active than the others, especially if crossed? Or maybe there are other types of dogs we should consider? We would prefer a dog that doesn't have a lot of hair and we don't want one that barks too much. Cheers.

[~Anne~]

Two things - this is a forum for purebred dogs and encouraging you to buy a cross breed is actually against the ethos of the group.
 

The second thing is - think carefully about the breed and temperament of the dog not just in terms of tomorrow, but in years to come. 
 

Teens grow up and become busy with friends and life so you can’t rely on them. I think your use of the words ‘hopefully keep it active’ might also signal you suspect they may not. So, unless you know that YOU definitely will have the energy and time for the next 10 + years, a high energy and smart dog may become an issue for you and a liability. 
 

I’ve never owned any of the breeds you mention but they’re all intelligent and high energy and unless they’re in the right environment and their needs met, they’ll develop behavioural issues like any dog. 
 

The biggest reason why most dogs end up in pounds and shelters and needlessly dying, or being given away, is failed expectations of the owners. It’s not that there are too many dogs being born. 
 

Safeguard yourself from being a contributor to this problem by thinking carefully about how the dog will fit in with your lifestyle before you buy. A well matched dog will bring 10-17 years of love, wonderful memories and companionship. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by ~Anne~

[persephone]

I would recommend these breeds for experienced dedicated owners. they need a lot of brainwork, and a fair bit of physical work , firm boundaries, and consistency. 
Great start- doing research here is some more reading for you ..and a little video  ;) 

CLICK HERE for link 1
CLICK HERE for link 2
CLICK HERE for video 

[Dogsfevr]

Depends what you call a lot of hair B. Ollie’s and Aussies need weekly brushing ,brushing means owner committed to training grooming manners from day 1 .

We board a number off awesome Blue Heelers BUT they are full on and need that brain worked and do find they can be vocal if frustrated

Having said that these breeds are known for using there voice on the job so setting the boundaries and giving them the mental brain challenges is not for owners who aren’t life long committed but above all all weather committed .

 

The kids don’t sound like there on the same level so as mentioned this dog is your adult life choice .

[Deeds]

I would go for a Labrador Retriever or Golden Retriever .  All of the cattle dogs around my area bark non-stop.

[Rebanne]

My first dog as a 20 yo was a German Shepherd X Cattle Dog but we did live on a horse stud farm so lots of exercise for the first 12 months. Honestly she was a dream dog so I wouldn't say your choices were bad but 40 years later I know I was so lucky with Brandy. Don't rely on what your teenagers may or may not do. Decide what you can commit to and go from there. I have had Goldies next door to me and boy could they bark! No dog is perfect but I'd be going a purebred from a registered breeder who can help guide you to what pup would suit you best and be available to help you with any problems that may crop up, or just listen to your brags on how you have the best pup ever!

[Selkie]

The amount of space you have doesn't matter, it's the time and energy that you put into a dog. A dog locked in a backyard will be bored and under-stimulated, regardless of the size of the back yard.

 

I grew up with cattle dogs. They are amazing dogs with a lot of potential, but need a great deal of mental stimulation, especially in the first few years. I've met many bored cattle dogs that become barky and nippy as a result. My cattle dogs used to happily follow a rider on a horse all day several days per week, and still do brain work on top of that. 

 

I personally find border collies and kelpies more "full on" and more in need of stimulation than cattle dogs, in a way. They tend to have a lot of herding drive, which can make them look very neurotic and obsessive if they aren't properly managed. A good working dog should have an "off switch" and be able to settle when not working, but I've met many pet dogs where this has gone awry.

 

Do not get a working dog because you think a "smart" dog is easier. They aren't. Get a working dog if you want to do working dog things. If you want a pet to sit around the house, look at a more suitable breed. Don't rely on the teens. They are likely to have their own interests, and will likely move out during the dog's lifespan.

[sheena]

Please don't get a working breed dog.  And as others have said this is a site for Pure Breeds, so we can't comment on those, except to say, that I find myself cringe when I hear of someone deliberately crossing my beloved breed (border collie) with something else.  With cross breeds you are not guaranteed to get what you think you are getting as you might get a pup that reverts back to one breed or the other, not just in looks, but temperament & health as well.  In your situation I would go for a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. ALL dogs will bark if bored or not trained properly

[persephone]

57 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Do not get a working dog because you think a "smart" dog is easier. They aren't. Get a working dog if you want to do working dog things. If you want a pet to sit around the house, look at a more suitable breed. Don't rely on the teens. They are likely to have their own interests, and will likely move out during the dog's lifespan.

yes!! A walk, and  a run in a dog park (shivers)  does not constitute "working dog things"

[WoofnHoof]

First thing to think about is the working origin of the breed. Those breeds have been developed over centuries for herding, chasing sheep and cattle all day every day. Work that is both mentally and physically stimulating. That is why they are popular for dog sports which are very high energy and require loads of training. 

 

Think about a worst case scenario that could happen. Kids get bored or move out. Work gets busy. It rains for weeks and no one wants to take the dog out for a long walk. Do you still want the dog if the things you hope for don't eventuate? If so what do you see the dog doing while you are working and the kids are absent? If it's purely companionship there are several more suitable breeds who will be happy with short walks and plenty of attention at home. 

 

Re shedding most dogs will shed you just have to deal with that but you can minimise it with short coated breeds like danes and greyhounds. Alternatively you can go with a low shedding breed but it will need regular clipping. 

 

Barking can be influenced by breed, again think about the history and whether a dog barks as part of its job, most herders do. The rest is largely behavioural and individual, dogs bark for various reasons, sometimes to alert (if you are in a busy area with lots of people going past this might be important) sometimes because they are bored, sometimes they just like the sound of their own voice. A good breeder will help guide you as far as their breed goes as they know them best. 

 

Crosses are the least predictable option, as said above it is generally not recommended for people who have a specific set of requirements, you want predictable traits. If you are keen on rescue a greyhound could be an option to explore via a reputable group who performs temperament testing and suitable vetting. 

[Purdie]

When you say 'not a lot of hair' do you mean you don't want a long coated breed or one that sheds a lot.?

Have you owned a dog before.?

I owned a Cattle dog  'King' when I was a young teen but would not have one again in suburbia.

He was the smartest dog I have ever owned and demanded a lot of attention.

I taught him to search for hidden objects in the yard  and other games to help occupy his mind and he was terrific at it however once I started high school and had less time to spend with him he got bored and dug out all Mum s plants in the yard and then started fence jumping when I left for school.

He jumped the fence and bailed up some people who were walking past so Mum said he had to go.

I advertised for a home for him stating how he liked to play go find games and was lucky to find a man who trained dogs for search and rescue.

He was very impressed with King and said he would have plenty to do and lots of people to interact with.

Looked after a friends Kelpie for 10 days and was exhausted at the end of it.

Her off switch lasted about 2 minutes then she was let's go again!

I know nothing about border collies but I will say unless you are a very very active person who can spend a lot of time with the dog doing activities together not just sitting around

then don't get a very active breed.

Don;t choose a breed just because you like the look of them.

Find a dog that matches your lifestyle.

 

https://www.selectadogbreed.com/

 

 

 

[Selkie]

On the hair thing - cattle dogs / heelers shed like a moulting shetland pony. They look like they have short coats, but it's actually quite thick, and they tend to have this fluffy undercoat. Everything around them, everything that they come into contact with, seems to get covered in little crinkly undercoat hairs. It happens year round, but is much worse when they blow their coat. This is another reason I wouldn't have one in suburbia - I'd only keep one as an outdoor farm dog. I don't like finding fluffy little hairs in my food all the time.

[moosmum]

On 13/02/2022 at 4:35 PM, ~Anne~ said:

Two things - this is a forum for purebred dogs and encouraging you to buy a cross breed is actually against the ethos of the group.
 

 

Bear this in mind.

The points people are making are part of the picture, but advise would be more complete coming from those more familiar with  cross breeds. 

[~Anne~]

35 minutes ago, moosmum said:

 

Bear this in mind.

The points people are making are part of the picture, but advise would be more complete coming from those more familiar with  cross breeds. 

I made the comment prior to anyone commenting so I'm not quite sure what you mean?  

 

I was forewarning the OP that no-one here would advise them to get a cross breed as its against the intent and purpose of the group.

[Selkie]

A lot of people here are familiar with cross breeds, though, in addition to purebreds. Knowledge of the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[moosmum]

1 hour ago, ~Anne~ said:

I made the comment prior to anyone commenting so I'm not quite sure what you mean?  

 

I was forewarning the OP that no-one here would advise them to get a cross breed as its against the intent and purpose of the group.

 

Yes, and Its good that you did. 

 

But Its also against rules to promote them. Hard for members to say anything positive, since it could be construed as promotion.

I think it only fair to point that out.

There would be few here, if any, actively involved in breeding cross breeds for the market. This site can't speak for them about what is or isn't available in that market. We are not representative of it. 

 

No criticism intended. Cross breeders shouldn't be the sole source of information on Pure Breeds either.

Edited February 16, 2022 by moosmum

[sandgrubber]

Any of those breeds COULD work if you took up a sport such as agility or tracking in a big way and stuck to it.  Otherwise, I agree with others...not a great fit. 

[ST80]

G'day and thanks very much to those who responded. There was some detailed information and great advice, which confirmed those breeds aren't the right match for us. We'll continue to research and I'm sure we'll find a dog that's perfect. Cheers.

[WoofnHoof]

On 16/02/2022 at 3:39 PM, Selkie said:

A lot of people here are familiar with cross breeds, though, in addition to purebreds. Knowledge of the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

I agree many of us have crosses and dogs of unknown breeding and love them just as much. I don't think it necessarily implies a bias when we state that a cross will likely not be ideal in this situation, just the simple fact of predictability of traits. Given that many breeders of crosses like to promote those crosses as "best of both worlds" it would be remiss to fail to point out the genetic gambling aspect. If the OP were an experienced owner with heaps of latitude in their situation and willingness to accommodate a variety of behavioural and physiological traits then I think people would direct them to purebreds *and* rescues (which are often crosses). It's not promoting crosses because directing people to a cross in rescue is not encouraging or promoting the breeding of them. Interested to hear thoughts on this though as it's an interesting point! 

[Selkie]

Oh, I agree! And I think there's a big difference between talking about the pros and cons of a crossbreed from rescue, and discussion of the commerical crossbreeding of dogs, with the false ideas that are often peddled with the commerical crossbreeding of dogs.

 

Coming from a horsey background, where there's not the same divide between purebred and crossbred, I see the advantages of outcrossing - I think there are some breeds (ie cavs) that could benefit!