BCs and seizure

[ralfho]

Hi people and hopefully a Happy New Year. Right away I want to say that I'm not looking for medical advice rather than hearing from BC owners telling me how they deal with it! And before you ask ...... Tobi does have an appointment with the vet!! I rescued Tobi (he's actually BC x Kelpie) 4 years ago when he was 9 month old after he was given to various people (including an elderly woman) as a pet and they couldn't deal with his temperament and was to be put down. Tobi comes from a sheep farm near Bathurst. Now living with me, another bc, a Kelpie and a German Shepherd he turned out to be a great dog. 6 month ago he had his first seizure and vet was going to put him on medication. I decided not to do this and tried hemp seed oil I heard a lot of good about it. For 6 month he was OK till last week when he had 2 very mild seizures during the night and another one the following day. Next day he slept it all off but since then his behaviour has changed! He refuses to get into the car (very unusual for him), he hardly responds to anything I taught him and he is hardly interested in his beloved ball. He also seems very sensitive to noise and touch. I grew up with dogs from Dachshounds to German Shepherds and I had dogs for most of my 64 years. I know how to deal with sick dogs as one of my GSDs had EPI but having to deal with a bc with seizures is new to me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.             Oh, sorry about the long txt but I am so worried about Tobi.

Edited January 1, 2022 by ralfho
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[_PL_]

I'm so sorry.  Seizures are scary. 
Best thing to do prior to vet visit is see if you can get a video, and write a little diary tracking the seizures and changes in behaviour. Also record what date and brand you parasite treated them with.  Some dogs have reactions. 
Check the garden for toxic plants. 
Sometimes you are given the choice of an MRI if things get bad, personally first I go recording episodes --> vets --> wait for further episodes --> medication --> patiently wait through the side effects --> work on the minimum dose rate.

Ask the vet if you can keep a few valium in the cupboard for any post ictal distress.

  

[Dogsfevr]

Thyroid issues can also cause seizures .Did the vet test for this as thyroid can also cause noise sensitivity.

 

Whilst hemp is great seizure medication can be a life changer for dogs on low dose .

Also not proven but a few off our clients feed multi meals to there seizure dogs to minimise food excitement.
Accessing diet ,meds,spot ons etc etc 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Dogsfevr

[persephone]

Oh - Welcome to D O L >
that is so sad - I hope the next vet appointment can be a useful one and not just fob you off with no explanation. Poor Tobi must be feeling pretty average

[Deeds]

https://www.sashvets.com/services/neurology-and-neurosurgery/

 

I recommend Dr Patrick Kenny or Georgina Child.  I have a dog that has cluster seizures i.e. more than 1 seizure in a 24 hour period.  You have to stop the seizures as soon as they start as 1 seizure begets another seizure.

 

My dog started having seizures just after he turned 4.  I have had around 15 dogs in my life.  This dog was a rehome.  I have never had a dog with seizures before and I found it an awful thing to watch and deal with.  It is very stressful as it usually happens when they are asleep.  Then there is the post- ictal phase that can last for days.  It's almost impossible to find what the trigger for the seizures is.  The best you can do is manage the seizures as best you can.  Usually with medication.

 

The general rule from Vets is if the dog has more than 1 seizure in a month it should be medicated.

[ralfho]

Thank you Deeds for your reply. It is awful watching your dog having seizures and it's something new for me to deal with. I started a diary to record Tobis seizures and I will talk to my vet next week to come up with a plan. 

[Deeds]

If the dog keeps having seizures one after another he is in danger of going into Status Epilepticus and that can be life threatening.

 

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/seizures-general-for-dogs

[sandgrubber]

Vet's vary in their approach to seizures. Any good vet will start with taking a history and trying to rule out toxins.  Videos and notes will help here.   Note some herding dogs don't tolerate Ivermectin, which is in many heartworm meds.  I had one dog who went into seizures from synthetic pyretheroids in flea treatments.  So be sure to note any parasite meds you use. Presuming no obvious cause shows uo,  routes diverge.

 

One route is to do a full battery of tests.  This sounds good but may return a verdict of ideopathic epilepsy, which basically means no cause can be found.  My vet told me that the tests usually come out negative and that ideopathic epilepsy was by far the most common diagnosis.  Meanwhile the bill will come to hundreds of dollars, or more if MRI is done, and afterwards seizure meds will likely be prescribed.

The other route is to go directly to seizure meds and see if the problem gets better.  This requires monitoring and blood work, initially, but saves a lot of testing costs.

Many dogs live to a good old age on seizure meds. 

 

It's your choice.  Do you have insurance?  Check to see what it ccover.   And ask your vet for an option of the likelihood of a positive diagnosis if you go the testing route.

Edited January 1, 2022 by sandgrubber

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

... parasite treatment:  Some dogs have reactions.
... Note some herding dogs don't tolerate Ivermectin, which is in many heartworm meds. 

I think this is very good advice. My yorkie had seizures after puppy vaccination and, if at all possible, I have avoided vaccinations and chemicals for him. Vets often recommended certain flea treatments, forgetting my yorkie's seizure history. Therefore. important to check yourself for possible side effects.

 

Hope all goes well for Tobi!

[Guest]

9 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

One route is to do a full battery of tests.  This sounds good but may return a verdict of ideopathic epilepsy, which basically means no cause can be found. 

Happened to us. Thousands of $$$$ later: inconclusive!

Thankfully, no more seizures afterwards, though.

[~Anne~]

I lived with an epileptic pug for more than 10 years. Monte was my heart dog. I estimate he’d had more than 500+ seizures in that 10 years. He saw Georgina Childs. She was fantastic with him and with me. 

Monte had clusters of around 4-5 seizures, within a couple of hours, every month or so.

 

Monte’s post ictal was very short. He ran a little manic for up to 30 minutes between seizures and after the last one. We administered Valium rectally when he started his first, and he was also on regular anti seizure medications.
 

In his last 12-18 months this all started to change. Georgina believes there was more happening with his brain in the last few years. He suffered from a severe bout of vestibular which he never really recovered from. He eventually went into status. It broke my heart. He seized for more than 14 hours. They couldn’t break them and we reluctantly euthanised him.

 

He lived a largely happy life regardless of his condition but then he was a pug and they’re not highly stressed or anxious dogs normally. Over the years I had many people tell me to euth him, on here and in person. Meh. He was a happy dog. If he wasn’t, I would not have taken the route we did of heavy medication and 24 hour care for the length of time we did. 
 

Ultimately, quality of life is important. If it’s idiopathic epilepsy there will be no rhyme or reason to how it presents. If it’s toxins or disease, this will become apparent. Take the first few steps and be guided by your vet. Seek out a vet with experience with epilepsy if that is what it turns out to be. I dealt with a lot of vets over the years, especially running the rescue and as a former vet nurse, and i know there are vets and there are vets. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by ~Anne~

[ralfho]

Oh Anne, I am so sorry that your soul mate crossed the rainbow bridge - it is so difficult! I went through this a few years back when my rescue border collie and mate died in my arms. And thank you so very much for your reply. This seizure thing in dogs is new to me and Tobi and the rest of the gang have to learn to live with it. Vet on Wednesday to come up with a plan. Oh, found out that most pet insurances don't cover seizure management because it's a pre existing condition. 

[sandgrubber]

2 hours ago, ralfho said:

, found out that most pet insurances don't cover seizure management because it's a pre existing condition. 

I'd ask a lawyer.   I don't see how an ideopathic condition can be pre-existing (or were you looking at getting insurance after the seizures).   "No" is the default answer for many insurance companies.   They have been known to back down when challenged.

[Dogsfevr]

3 hours ago, ralfho said:

Oh Anne, I am so sorry that your soul mate crossed the rainbow bridge - it is so difficult! I went through this a few years back when my rescue border collie and mate died in my arms. And thank you so very much for your reply. This seizure thing in dogs is new to me and Tobi and the rest of the gang have to learn to live with it. Vet on Wednesday to come up with a plan. Oh, found out that most pet insurances don't cover seizure management because it's a pre existing condition. 

One word off advice .Be mindful off the other dogs when your BC has seizures especially if no one is home.
In some cases other dogs have been known to pack on the seizuring animal due to panic & fear .
 

[Paul777]

Hemp seed oil can be helpful for many conditions but a full spectrum CBD oil is much more effective, especially for neurological conditions. 
CBD oil is safe for children and pets and will not get them high. 

I've just started dosing my GSD with CBD oil before bed when storms are forecast overnight which lowered his anxiety at our first try. 

It must be awful to see ones pup having seizures. 
Good luck.