Blood works - some elevated results

[giraffez]

5 hours ago, Deeds said:

I am assuming that your boy is a mini schnauzer.  The reason why I mentioned the pancreatitis is that mini's are very prone to getting pancreatitis.

 

I would ask the Vet about pancreatitis when you go back.  It may be the liver test you have already done may be enough to clear him of pancreatitis.

Thanks yes, mini schnauzer.  Well he seems to have elevated liver enzymes so he is not out of the wood just yet!  Thanks for the tip, I will be revisiting his diet and also check about the pancreatitis when i speak to vet.

 

41 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

Generally, if your dog had pancreatitis (acute, suddne onset)), then he'd be in a world of pain and you'd know it. If he has chronic pancreatitis (longterm type), then there is a possibility he may have just gotten used to certain levels of uncomfortability over time, which could make picking it up harder on first sight.

 

Yeah thats what i thought, i should be able to tell from his behaviour.  But he seems normal so it didn't even cross my mind.

 

I noticed he is a bit slower (reaction time) but I boiled it down to old age and a loss of hearing, like you would see with an 90 year old compared to a 15 year old.

 

I hope nothing bad, I see the vet again later this week.   

 

Thank you all.

[Deeds]

@giraffez . Feel free to PM me if you need any further information.  I have a lot of experience with schnauzers but not mini's.

[giraffez]

Thanks so much @Deeds

 

I currently buy ziwipeak as treats but given i need to restrict the protein, I'm not sure I can do this any more.  What do you give yours for treats that doesn't need their kidneys to go into overdrive?

 

I'm also a bit worried that he won't get enough nutrients without proteins.  Can dogs be vegetarians?  What about muscle loss?

He is not a picky eater (thank god!), he would eat anything and be content but i feel sad that i can't give him any tasty meat.  I'm not sure about bones too.... i usually give him a big pork knuckle bog every weekend, has a bit of leftover meat on the knuckle, can't do it anymore?

 

[Deeds]

Has it been confirmed that it is his kidneys?  

[giraffez]

9 hours ago, Deeds said:

Has it been confirmed that it is his kidneys?  

Yes, had a blood test and a number of consecutive urine tests (USG) done.  Liver is also a culprit.

[Deeds]

Is this the 2nd round of blood tests?

[giraffez]

31 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Is this the 2nd round of blood tests?

No, first round.  Getting another done in 6 weeks.

[Deeds]

The SASH Kidney Specialist told us no raw meat because it can cause infections.  Anaesthetic is also not good for dogs with kidney problems..  They need lots & lots of fluids if they have to have anaesthetic.  It is life threatening for them.

 

I would cut out the pork knuckle with meat on it.  I know a lot of dogs get pancreatitis from ham etc especially around Xmas and as minis are prone to pancreatitis I would give the pork a miss. This may bring down the liver blood count.  Worth doing for 6 weeks to see if it does make a difference to the liver blood results.

 

What pathology lab is doing the bloods.  Is it Vetnostics or Idex?

[giraffez]

2 hours ago, Deeds said:

The SASH Kidney Specialist told us no raw meat because it can cause infections.  Anaesthetic is also not good for dogs with kidney problems..  They need lots & lots of fluids if they have to have anaesthetic.  It is life threatening for them.

 

What pathology lab is doing the bloods.  Is it Vetnostics or Idex?

 We found out about the kidney because he went in to the vet to get a minor procedure done.  It required local anaesthetic but didn't require him to go under.  He was a bit out of if when he came home but vet said it was normal behaviour after anaesthetic.  He recovered a few hours later and was back to normal.   

 

We got the blood test done before the procedure just to make sure he was okay with the anaesthetic and that's when we found the kidney and liver issue.    Chicken and egg, I guess we wouldn't have found it if he had not had to have the procedure but with the procedure, he would have to have the anaesthesia.  If i had known it was going to be harmful, I would taken extra care to give him lots of water to flush it out. 

 

It was an in house blood full blood panel.  Not sent to the pathology.

 

Right now, I'm cutting out all the protein.  The only protein is from the prescription diet which he only gets just under a cup a day.   Will check again in a few weeks time to see whether it makes a difference.  If its manageable with diet and doesn't worsen I'll be happy with that.  Vet says he is at the very early stages so we caught it early.  He is almost 13, it sucks to be getting old.

 

[giraffez]

On 25/11/2021 at 10:47 PM, Deeds said:

Royal Canin K/d as well and Hills K/d kibble

Hey Deeds, which one do you think had the best results on your baby?   I did a comparison yesterday and Hills had a higher protein content and fat.  My boy is currently on royal canin renal which has lower protein and lower fat and lower phosphate.  Both are just as expensive, actually i think RC is slightly more expensive.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by giraffez

[Deeds]

Specialist recommended the Royal Canin.  I changed to Hills because after years on the RC he got bored with it .  Now I mix the 2 together.  I sprinkle some liver treats on top of the kibble. He often doesn't want his breakfast the same time as normal dogs would.  He prefers to have it around 11am or so.  I have read that people with kidney problems don't like to eat first thing in the morning.

 

In the evening he has every night steamed rice plus 1 pkt of frozen steamed veggies.  With that cooked chook from woollies or some cooked steak or Brunswick sardines (reduced salt).  Sometimes he has the RC Renal Pouches as well. This has been his diet for around 5 years now.  The Specialist is very pleased with him and she always says "Don't change anything because whatever you're doing is working".

 

It was the same with us.  We wouldn't have found out there was a kidney problem but on my insistence they did bloods (dog was only 6 months old) and found the kidney problems.  Luckily they didn't proceed with the procedure otherwise we would have lost the dog.  So lucky for us we found out early as well.

[giraffez]

5 hours ago, Deeds said:

I have read that people with kidney problems don't like to eat first thing in the morning.

haha mine doesn't have a problem with food.  He will wake up even if he is in deep sleep to get a bite :D I'm grateful for this now that he needs to be on a restricted diet.  Food is always a no fuss for him.  Makes it easier with the restriction.

 

5 hours ago, Deeds said:

With that cooked chook from woollies or some cooked steak or Brunswick sardines (reduced salt)

I use this as well- the sardines.  But thats protein, isn't it hard on the kidneys?  I used to give this to him 2-3 times a week.  But i stopped when we went into lockdown and I couldn't get to the supermarkets.

 

5 hours ago, Deeds said:

This has been his diet for around 5 years now.  The Specialist is very pleased with him and she always says "Don't change anything because whatever you're doing is working".

This is great!  I may also need to get the blood pressure checked.  But he is so so so nervous at the vet, i just think it will probably come back false positive.

Edited December 4, 2021 by giraffez

[Deeds]

Our boy is better with one of the female vets for his bloods & blood pressure.  We get some trazazone (I spelt that wrong) from vet to give to him around 45 mins prior to consult for blood pressure.  The traz calms him down without making him woozy.  Better for an accurate reading particularly if the vet is running late.

 

You should have his blood pressure taken when he has his next bloods done .

 

I only give 1 can of sardines once or twice a week.  My dog weighs 53kgs so maybe only give your dog 1 sardine from the can a couple of times a week.

If he doesn't miss the sardines don't give it to him.

 

[persephone]

21 hours ago, giraffez said:

It required local anaesthetic but didn't require him to go under.  He was a bit out of if when he came home but vet said it was normal behaviour after anaesthetic.  He recovered a few hours later and was back to normal.   

he shouldn't have been "out of it " from local anaesthetic - as that is injected into the area around.of the op site itself . ..should not affect the brain at all! 

Edited December 5, 2021 by persephone

[giraffez]

17 hours ago, Deeds said:

You should have his blood pressure taken when he has his next bloods done .

Thanks will do.

 

@Deeds which formula do you get for Royal Canin?  There is Renal and Renal Select.  So many variations not sure what the difference is.  Renal Select seems to have the least protein but Renal has the least phosphorus.

 

 

[Papillon Kisses]

Annoying person answer but ask your vet. You don’t want to restrict / change something if it’s not needed, because they wind up being deficient in other things.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Papillon Kisses

[Deeds]

The Specialist checked all the products available and recommended  RC Renal for us.

[giraffez]

@Deeds did you need to go on medication or was it completely controlled with diet?

[Deeds]

All controlled by diet for over 5 years.  No medication required so far.  

[giraffez]

Thanks for that.  That gives me a bit of hope.

 

I just feel so bad when I can't give him any meat.  He is on a veggie diet + the RC Renal Kibbles.  I worry it's not enough nutrition.   He doesn't seem to mind the food, he is a schnauzer and will eat anything.  I'm so grateful he is not a picky eater on this diet.