Blood works - some elevated results

[giraffez]

My boy is 12 and we just got some blood works done.  He has an elevated ALT  and ALKP both about 50 above the max boundary.  This is the liver enzymes.  And his Urea is 12 (normal is under 9.6).  

 

The liver may be due to old age but have been advised that milk thistle could help.  I'm not sure how much to give, I have a bottle of these I'm taking myself.  Does anyone know or have similar problems?
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/86219/thompson-s-one-a-day-milk-thistle-42000mg-60-capsules?gclid=CjwKCAiAv_KMBhAzEiwAs-rX1Ppp6jpqlQYbYdkLJ7_mU2HL9ofghP8KSncAGBm5oMI1qcbdzoOVDxoCR4wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

With the urea we are going to do a urine test, apparently the blood works in this category is not too accurate.  Hopefully it's nothing.  Wish me luck collecting his pee!
 

[Kazm]

I’m no help but just want to wish you luck with your boy. Hope you can sort out his problems

[Deeds]

Would this help .https://www.blackmores.com.au/products/pet-health/liver-health/denamarin

 

The problem of dosing looks easier.

[Rebanne]

I give my 35 kilo dogs a child's dose for things like that

[Papillon Kisses]

I second asking vet about Denamarin for a simpler option.

[_PL_]

Budget Pet Products usually has good prices on Denamarin.   It really is so much easier to administer. 

 

Best of luck with pee catching lol we usually stalk them quietly with a takeaway container.  

[Papillon Kisses]

22 minutes ago, Powerlegs said:

Best of luck with pee catching lol we usually stalk them quietly with a takeaway container.  

I know people who have a designated ladle.

[Deeds]

@Giraffez

Sometimes the Vet can do the bloods again say in 2 weeks time or whenever and the bloods etc will be back to normal.  Or sometimes the Pathology Lab can get it wrong.  Both of these situations have happened to me.

 

I realise you are worried because of your boy's age.  I am keeping everything crossed for you and your boy and I hope it all turns out ok,

[giraffez]

The numbers aren’t super high and we are getting another blood done in a few weeks time.  Given Denamarin and milk thistle are just vitamin supplements, I’m thinking whether I should dose him something small during this time.  So that even if it was a false positive, it won’t harm do much harm.  And at least if it did anything, the second blood test would be better.   
 

im actually more concerned about the kidneys ( urea level).  Liver you can take something to help it, but I’m not sure kidneys are that simple.

[Deeds]

One of our dogs was diagnosed with kidney dysplasia (similar to kidney disease).  He has been to the Kidney Specialist at SASH Dr Bing who is excellent.

 

He has bloods done every 6 months as well as urine and blood pressure.  We found out he had kidney disease at 6months .  He has just turned 5years.

He is not on any medication.

 

He has the Royal Canin K/d as well and Hills K/d kibble as recommended by Bing..  He has cooked chicken as well as sardines (reduced salt) occasionally and some cooked steak once a week.  We were told to ensure that only 10% of his diet is protein .  He has rice and vegetables every night as well.

 

If it is kidney be strict with his diet.  Give him the special kidney diet.

 

[giraffez]

On 25/11/2021 at 10:47 PM, Deeds said:

One of our dogs was diagnosed with kidney dysplasia (similar to kidney disease).  He has been to the Kidney Specialist at SASH Dr Bing who is excellent.

 

He has cooked chicken as well as sardines (reduced salt) occasionally and some cooked steak once a week.  We were told to ensure that only 10% of his diet is protein .  He has rice and vegetables every night as well.

 

If it is kidney be strict with his diet.  Give him the special kidney diet.

 

Thanks that’s reassuring.  What symptoms does he present?  And why only 10%, kibbles have protein too so that means whatever you given him on top is bland and carby?

 

did you need to go for ultrasound?  What does his urea reading levels look like? Do they go up and down in every blood test?

Edited November 26, 2021 by giraffez

[Deeds]

Only 10% protein because the kidneys can't process too much protein.  The kibble has minimal protein and no phosporus in it.  

 

He was very lethargic and cried after eating.  We thought it was his hip so we booked him for an X-Ray.  The Vet asked me if we wanted bloods done because they usually didn't do bloods for dogs that young.

 

I asked for the bloods to be done because I knew there was something wrong with the dog.  The Vet rang me after she did the bloods and said he's got high creatine levels.  We went straight to SASH where they did an ultrasound that confirmed he had kidney dysplasia.

 

The kidney specialist told us what to feed him and basically his bloods & creatine levels vary very slightly each test.  But not by much.  For the first 2/3 years we tested bloods etc every 3 months now it's every 6 months or so.

 

We did bloods & urine last week and the urine was in "normal range".  Everything was fine and hardly changed from the last test.  Sorry I can't give numbers as we haven't received the report.  We got the results by phone.  "Everything within normal range".

 

Has your dog been tested for pancreatitis.  

 

 

[persephone]

On 25/11/2021 at 10:15 PM, giraffez said:

Given Denamarin and milk thistle are just vitamin supplements,

...the ingredients in milk thistle are not recognised vitamins. 
the constituents of milk thistle - one of which is in Denamarin - have been found to be very useful in assisting with liver regeneration/healing .It is also anti inflammatory , and may increase the flow of bile. 

[Tassie]

Oh they do worry us as they get older don;t they.      Per my vet, the SDMA test is more diagnostic of kidney function than BUN and Creatinine alone.  

 

Do hope you get some good news.

 

 

[JulesP]

I have a dog with liver problems. I've never used milk thistle, although it is a popular thing to use. Denamarin is the popular choice. There I have been very strict with what I feed my dog and do keep the protein levels low and feed her prescription food. No bones, vegetarian cookies etc. Kidney & liver prescription diets are fairly similar, kidney is slighter higher protein from memory and I think liver is higher fat. Think of it of giving the liver a little holiday from processing stuff and see if the levels improve. 

[giraffez]

On 27/11/2021 at 11:04 AM, Deeds said:

Has your dog been tested for pancreatitis.  

Thanks that was helpful.  No, he doesn't seem to be sick so there was no reason to test for pancreatitis?  Although he has gained a bit of weight (about 1 kg) in the last 12 months.  Is there a test for pancratitis?  I was of the impression if he had it he would show signs of being sick.

 

 

[giraffez]

On 28/11/2021 at 10:25 AM, JulesP said:

Kidney & liver prescription diets are fairly similar, kidney is slighter higher protein from memory and I think liver is higher fat.

I'm currently feeding meals for mutts salmon range and in the last 12 months have topped it up with boiled meat.  I may have to stop the top up in meat.

 

I thought kidney was supposed to be lower protein (per above post?)

 

Sounds like the liver and kidneys are related...... both are problematic his bloods at the same time.

 

 

[giraffez]

 

On 27/11/2021 at 11:04 AM, Deeds said:

Only 10% protein because the kidneys can't process too much protein.  The kibble has minimal protein and no phosporus in it. 

@Deeds i had a look at the kibble you mentioned and it still has 15% protein - https://www.hillspet.com.au/dog-food/pd-kd-canine-dry

Is that considered low?  The MFM my boy is taking is 20% which isn't too far off and i thought it was one of the higher brands.

 

Did you need to get a SDMA done (google says this is the kidney function test)?

[Deeds]

In this case it's what the Kidney Specialist at SASH recommended.  And it's the phosphates that have been minimised or eliminated in the kibble.

 

He had all the appropriate tests plus an ultra sound done at SASH.  And has blood,urine plus blood pressure done every 6 months.

 

I am assuming that your boy is a mini schnauzer.  The reason why I mentioned the pancreatitis is that mini's are very prone to getting pancreatitis.

 

I would ask the Vet about pancreatitis when you go back.  It may be the liver test you have already done may be enough to clear him of pancreatitis.

 

 

[tdierikx]

9 hours ago, giraffez said:

Thanks that was helpful.  No, he doesn't seem to be sick so there was no reason to test for pancreatitis?  Although he has gained a bit of weight (about 1 kg) in the last 12 months.  Is there a test for pancratitis?  I was of the impression if he had it he would show signs of being sick.

 

 

 

There is a specific test for pancreatitis in dogs... it's called cPLI... it tests lipase and amylase levels (certain types of fats in the blood).

 

Generally, if your dog had pancreatitis (acute, suddne onset)), then he'd be in a world of pain and you'd know it. If he has chronic pancreatitis (longterm type), then there is a possibility he may have just gotten used to certain levels of uncomfortability over time, which could make picking it up harder on first sight.

 

Similarly to liver issues, you'd want to keep the levels of fat in his diet as low as possible if he had chronic pancreatitis, as fat can set it off and he would not be a happy boy.

 

I've had pancreatitis (acute) myself... and I certainly would not wish it on any animal.

 

T.