The Cost of Puppies is outrageous

[asal]

On 27/10/2021 at 9:17 AM, sandgrubber said:

Time spent on hobbies is counted differently.

 

 

a hobby still should not ignore your input. the happiest people are doing something they love and getting paid for it.

 

yet breeding, your time is worth nothing?  why?  my son loves doing plumbing. loves the challenge of tough jobs and the satisfaction of well done.

 

yet he is a master plumber and gets paid for doing what he loves.   

 

my daughter loves her job selling goods, she is so good at it she even sold more stuff to the sales rep there to show her boss their new product lines for them to stock  of her companies products.

Come in to get a bridle and go home with all the extras and a new outfit for the next show with matching, saddle cloth, blouse, boots etc.

 

 

My dad loved fixing trucks but he was paid for the work he did.

 

my neighbour Doc was a fellow of the royal college of surgeons and he loved his job. even when he had a stoke and could barely manage to talk he still diagnosed a life threatening condition and saved my friends life.

 

all were well paid for their expertise

 

I have never agreed with the "O im ethical, I lose money on any litter I raise. its the only way to be ethical"   As anyone who knows the time, effort and expertise to not only breed and raise a healthy litter, it also takes heaps of learning to achieve the knowledge to do so and breed consistent quality.

 

Yet your effort is worth nothing?   if you want to wear the ethical label?

 

sadly. but to me that's changing the meaning of ethical to stupid. Along with ensuring the only people allowed to breed are independently wealthy or you cannot do so.

Edited November 30, 2021 by asal

[Tassie]

23 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said:

Or this! https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jun/15/kelpie-fetches-world-breaking-35200-at-australian-working-dog-auction

 

Although the prices may seem eye-watering, it's worth remembering that apart from the time and effort that has gone into breeding those dogs .. from lines going back generations, and the time spent working them up to expert level.... it's worth also considering that the price paid would probably represent a year or two of stockman's wages, let alone cost of diesel, that the dog and its offspring will likely save the buyer, and future buyers of offspring.

[Adrienne]

This is very difficult! I sold my last litter at the mid range of market prices and one of them was flipped. This was really upsetting to me, not for missing out on the dollars but for not having placed the pup in a home I felt was good for it. It may have gone to a great home, but I have no idea. I feel responsible to each puppy whelped in my program - responsible for giving it the best start and responsible for selling it into a good home. I also feel responsible to the buyers of my pups, I want them to have a happy, healthy and well started pup.

 

I am now advertising my pups for at a higher (though negotiable price). I am not getting as many enquiries as before (which was overwhelming to be honest). If I consider the foundation I put into my pups and the experience the buyers have once they take them home I feel the value is there. I consider my last sales to be bargains and these current sales to be value.

 

From a buyers perspective if they are looking out for all the right things for where their pup was whelped and how it has been raised there will be pups that are better prospects than others. I hate hearing and reading about the dreadful experiences many people have when they get their poorly raised puppy home. What a heart-breaking nightmare for pups and people alike. 

 

So I don't feel bad about the price I put on my pups - I am about what Puppyshack etc are charging and I can definitely say hands down the pups I raise have had a better start and a lot more thought put into their breeding and whelping and raising. So the prices are what the market says they are - I guess buyers need to do their homework, put in the own effort and to ensure they are buying a good prospect and not a lemon! 

 

Be patient and discerning folks. There are enough resources available to buyers of puppies to educate themselves on what to look for. Complaining about prices will not get you the pup you want -  everyone is paying high prices (and if they are finding cheap puppies there is a reason for it - lots of ugly poorly bred animals out there).

 

Look for value, you wont save money on the purchase price but you will save yourself and family a lot of heartache and money down the track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Papillon Kisses]

3 hours ago, Tassie said:

 

Although the prices may seem eye-watering, it's worth remembering that apart from the time and effort that has gone into breeding those dogs .. from lines going back generations, and the time spent working them up to expert level.... it's worth also considering that the price paid would probably represent a year or two of stockman's wages, let alone cost of diesel, that the dog and its offspring will likely save the buyer, and future buyers of offspring.

Absolutely!

[Rascalmyshadow]

Anyone on here that’s a breeder can you please tell me what should someone looking for a pup/dog do, if breeders don’t like being asked how much their puppies/dogs are and for what ever reason don’t want to disclose the amount on their advertised litters/dogs but also don’t want their time wasted, how is anyone supposed to know if the pups/dogs are in their budget without causing an issue or making breeders angry?

[Rebanne]

I always tell people what the price is. No point hiding it.

[Diva]

Has it been an issue for you? I don’t think any of my breeder friends mind being asked at all. But they don’t like it when it seems to be all the buyer cares about or they try to haggle the price down. I’d just be polite and direct, but not make it the first thing you say. 
 

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

how is anyone supposed to know if the pups/dogs are in their budget without causing an issue or making breeders angry?

I think you can get a ball park figure for most types in the open market place in any given week.

anything of a large type will be 1000 - 2500; anything small with short hair will be 1800 - 2500; anything small and fluffy will be 2500 -3500; anything small and fluffy involving a poodle will be 3000 - 4500; anything med size and fluffy involving a poodle will be 4000 - 5500;  Cavoodlle 4 500 (there are LOTS of them out there now). Larger Oodles are 5500 - 6 000. Anything Frenchie or bulldog will be 6 000 - 8000. 

This is in QLD.  

 

The gist of this is when you are looking for your dog  the prices you should be expecting are out there in the public domain. 

 

A breeder really wants to know why you are interested in their pups, get talking about yourself and the home you can provide and demonstrate your credentials as a dog owner!  Get asking them questions about how and why they breed and let them demonstrate to you their credentials as a breeder you would like to buy from.

 

When it comes to price, the breeder is not going to be very far off the market price - why would they be? And if they are they can tell you why, if the difference between your expectation (market price) and actual price is too much for you just tell them. If they have had a good conversation with you and think you would be a good home to sell to they might budge on the price (breeders want their pups to go to really good homes), or you might be so impressed with their reason for having higher than market prices and decide to save a bit more and buy from them a bit down the track.

 

Buyers need to do their research and be prepared to get on the phone and talk to the people who are breeding the type of dog they want to buy. Breeders are not shops! 

 

From my side as a breeder, if interested people just want to get straight onto price its annoying because its actually not the most important thing to me. I always advertise with a price and also make it negotiable, but I still get people asking me their first question "How negotiable are you on the price?" That's their first question! I just think well if the price is the crucial thing for you then you need to just get yourself along to Puppyshack and have a shopping experience.

 

The point is, in the scheme of things the price is going to be in the ball park for the type of dog - if you love what you are hearing from the breeder and like their dogs very much are you going to miss out on it over a thousand bucks? Importantly this goes both ways! If I love what I am hearing from a buyer and like the home they can offer my pup very much, am I going to have my pup miss out on that home over a thousand bucks?

 

We are buying and selling animals, it takes real people taking the time to have real conversations about the important things.... money is part of it, but NOT the most important part of it by far.

 

 

 

[Pjrt]

I really don’t understand why the price of puppies is such a weird thing to ask as the very first question. What’s the problem with wanting to know if the pup is in your range of affordability immediately. Cuts through a whole lot of time wasting in my opinion. Why go through a whole warm and fuzzy back story with a potential buyer to then have them stumble at the last hurdle, price. 
that would be like all the clothes in a shop not being priced, trying them all on, then realising you can’t afford any the ones that fit, the ones you like,  or the ones you want. Or none of the appliances on the shelf at Harvey Norman being priced, asking the salesperson to spend 45 mins running you through all the specs on the ones you’re interested in, only to find you can’t afford any of them. 

 

[BDJ]

My 2c is that a breeder should not be opposed to price being discussed in the first contact (call or email) - as above, it is no good having a budget of $X and finding out 6 conversations later that the price is double that.  To be honest, if I asked (appropriately) about cost and the breeder got cranky, that would be enough for me to walk away as I consider that as either 'mind games' or they are more sensitive/clicky/something than I care to engage with.

 

Having said that,  'appropriate' is the key.   I don't think it is appropriate to start a conversation with 'hi, I am Fred and looking for a pup - how much is it'.   I see nothing wrong with 'hi, I am Fred, I am looking for a pup,  this is me (where, why, what, who, history etc), I am hoping to do .........., ... ask questions you have about the pup and the breeder etc, and then say 'may I ask how much you are asking for him/her' ......'.    Even if you have decided not to purchase, or they don't have anything suitable, it will give you an idea of the cost.  That way you know if $X is realistic.

 

[Diva]

Yeah I hardly ever breed, like every five or six years, but I have still had the ‘wot ya asking?’ emails with no other context or content. That is always going to put me off, introduce yourself first please or don’t bother.  I make no apologies for that! 

[The Spotted Devil]

I always am up front about pricing. But yes, in the context of a conversation or email. Not “how much for a female puppy?”  

[Deeds]

I usually buy the same breed of dog.  The last dog I paid $3500 around 5 years ago.   This time around it will be $4k to $5.5k.

 

By looking at the pedigrees you can see the number of imports in the lines, factor in import costs, stud fees etc not to mention vet fees, reproduction fees and the breeders time and resources.

 

As well showing takes a lot of time, travelling and energy to get the dogs championship status points.

 

I have seen the work and pride good breeders put into their dogs.  I don't haggle over the price for the reasons stated above.  And because I would only purchase from 2 of the 4 breeders in Australia that makes it a lot easier.

 

I'm glad I'm not into oodles etc.  

 

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

5 hours ago, BDJ said:

My 2c is that a breeder should not be opposed to price being discussed in the first contact (call or email) - as above, it is no good having a budget of $X and finding out 6 conversations later that the price is double that.  To be honest, if I asked (appropriately) about cost and the breeder got cranky, that would be enough for me to walk away as I consider that as either 'mind games' or they are more sensitive/clicky/something than I care to engage with.

 

Having said that,  'appropriate' is the key.   I don't think it is appropriate to start a conversation with 'hi, I am Fred and looking for a pup - how much is it'.   I see nothing wrong with 'hi, I am Fred, I am looking for a pup,  this is me (where, why, what, who, history etc), I am hoping to do .........., ... ask questions you have about the pup and the breeder etc, and then say 'may I ask how much you are asking for him/her' ......'.    Even if you have decided not to purchase, or they don't have anything suitable, it will give you an idea of the cost.  That way you know if $X is realistic.

 

This exactly.

I have never had an issue in the past as I introduce myself properly and give details about the home I can offer, I have only been turned down by multiple breeders of the same breed, all sent me one liners, ‘we don’t home to people with children’, was so unfriendly and rude I ended giving up and getting a x of the breed instead.

Now however prices are so high I’m not comfortable approaching any breeder (except the one that bred our beardie) as I often see them put no time wasters or ask your husband, wife, partner first (how can you do that if you have no details including price) etc. in the past I’ve known I was likely to afford the dogs/pups I was interested in but now there’s so much variation, they could be anything from $1500 to $8000.

 

[Luvapoo]

I have tried to stay out of this thread, though I have followed it carefully!

 

I always put my price in my dogzonline listings. It absolutely annoys me that people don't.

 

If somebody rings me we don't have to have that discussion and I know they can afford it before we have to have the long conversation re the home they can offer, experience and all the rest.

 

I really don't understand why everyone doesn't do it. Why the big secret?

[Odin-Genie]

On 2/12/21 at 5:45 PM, Luvapoo said:

I always put my price in my dogzonline listings. It absolutely annoys me that people don't.

 

If somebody rings me we don't have to have that discussion and I know they can afford it before we have to have the long conversation re the home they can offer, experience and all the rest.

 

I really don't understand why everyone doesn't do it. Why the big secret?

Totally agree. Budget is a real concern for many people. Why not be upfront about the price? Saves wasting time for the buyer and the breeder. What is the logic behind not listing prices?

[coneye]

On 02/12/2021 at 5:15 PM, Luvapoo said:

I have tried to stay out of this thread, though I have followed it carefully!

 

I always put my price in my dogzonline listings. It absolutely annoys me that people don't.

 

If somebody rings me we don't have to have that discussion and I know they can afford it before we have to have the long conversation re the home they can offer, experience and all the rest.

 

I really don't understand why everyone doesn't do it. Why the big secret?

Totaly correct ,, If someones looking for a dog they want a dog , and 9 out of 10  times these people would'nt know what questions to ask ,,  someone wants a springer spaniel ,,  they might ask , what color are the pups , what sex ,, but i doubt there going to ask ,  does it have one ear longer than the other ,  or are the parents good gun dogs with   soft mouths ,    are the pups used to shotgun fire , have they been in the water  to retrieve or are they scared of water ,

 

No its likely to be , color , sex and PRICE  , what order will differ ,  and too be honest any breeder who got shirty with me because i asked the price , i would'nt buy of them ,, i'd just think they put money before the  dog , so can't be trusted ,,,

 

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

On 2/12/21 at 3:12 PM, Deeds said:

I usually buy the same breed of dog.  The last dog I paid $3500 around 5 years ago.   This time around it will be $4k to $5.5k.

 

By looking at the pedigrees you can see the number of imports in the lines, factor in import costs, stud fees etc not to mention vet fees, reproduction fees and the breeders time and resources.

 

As well showing takes a lot of time, travelling and energy to get the dogs championship status points.

 

I have seen the work and pride good breeders put into their dogs.  I don't haggle over the price for the reasons stated above.  And because I would only purchase from 2 of the 4 breeders in Australia that makes it a lot easier.

 

I'm glad I'm not into oodles etc.  

 

 

What your saying is fair and makes sense but means absolutely nothing to someone just wanting a family pet, most average people don’t care if the dogs are champions or imports etc. they are just looking for a sound temperament, good health and often a particular colour in their chosen breed.

[Deeds]

That's why I am very particular who I buy a dog from.  Because I want good health and temperament above all else.  And that's why I research the lines in my breeders dogs.

 

I prefer to buy show quality even though they will be family pets.  I know the lines in my breed.  I only mention imports etc in relation to breeders costs and work and what I would expect to pay for a dog as a result of those costs .