The Cost of Puppies is outrageous

[Rascalmyshadow]

1 hour ago, The Spotted Devil said:

Whilst I tend to agree with you with regards to the extreme price increases,  I (and many others) have been seriously undercharging for a long time. In addition, breeding is more than one litter. This time I’ve been very fortunate with a large litter and healthy mum. However it’s balanced out by the costs of every other litter - 3 puppies to sell - one required corrective eye surgery at 6 weeks (not genetic) which was more than my puppy price; 5 live pups, 2 deceased - 1 euthanised at 4 weeks (congenital megaoesophagus); 7 pups - emergency c-section and 10 days later Ginny developed gangrenous mastitis which can kill a bitch in hours. Daily vet visits and antibiotics until it could be lanced and drained of putrid pus. Then the necrotic tissue was surgically removed 6 months later. I hip and elbow score my bitches too. Not cheap given it requires a GA. 
 

You were lucky @Rascalmyshadowwhich I’m very happy about. But breed long enough and you’ll experience every disaster in the book at some point. 

I understand there’s a lot to go wrong and I’m no breeder, we were down $4000 the min they were born because Mum decide to whelp under our bed instead of in the whelping box next to the bed, $3000 worth of carpet (only a few years old) destroyed on top of having to pay to replace the flooring.

One litter was hard enough and cost us a fortune because we did everything right and spared no expense, when I realised one of the puppies I sold had a congenital issue I took the pup back and refunded the buyer their money and then was the one to take her in to be euthanised, I was up through the night every night to sit with mum because she wouldn’t stay with them to feed during the night without me, I spent so much time cleaning up poop and pee  because I wanted them reared inside with us, I was so exhausted I fell asleep in my car one day in the supermarket car park, I can understand the amount of time, effort and money that goes into produce quality dogs, my issue isn’t with breeders making money or covering their costs, it’s the fact that I watched prices become extremely inflated in a few weeks.

How can a litter from a breeder be advertised for $2000 a pup and then only a few weeks later their next litter be $4500 per pup? Same breeders, same breed.

Its really disheartening to think so many people can no longer afford to have a dog in their life. I never had any intention of breeding and our girl was desexed as soon as the vet gave her the all clear but seeing how the prices are now I’m glad she had the litter because it allowed me to add another dog to our pack when there’s no way my husband would ever agree to spend $5000 plus on a dog.

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Rascalmyshadow

[Dogsfevr]

7 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

I understand there’s a lot to go wrong and I’m no breeder, we were down $4000 the min they were born because Mum decide to whelp under our bed instead of in the whelping box next to the bed, $3000 worth of carpet (only a few years old) destroyed on top of having to pay to replace the flooring.

One litter was hard enough and cost us a fortune because we did everything right and spared no expense, when I realised one of the puppies I sold had a congenital issue I took the pup back and refunded the buyer their money and then was the one to take her in to be euthanised, I was up through the night every night to sit with mum because she wouldn’t stay with them to feed during the night without me, I spent so much time cleaning up poop and pee  because I wanted them reared inside with us, I was so exhausted I fell asleep in my car one day in the supermarket car park, I can understand the amount of time, effort and money that goes into produce quality dogs, my issue isn’t with breeders making money or covering their costs, it’s the fact that I watched prices become extremely inflated in a few weeks.

How can a litter from a breeder be advertised for $2000 a pup and then only a few weeks later their next litter be $4500 per pup? Same breeders, same breed.

Its really disheartening to think so many people can no longer afford to have a dog in their life. I never had any intention of breeding and our girl was desexed as soon as the vet gave her the all clear but seeing how the prices are now I’m glad she had the litter because it allowed me to add another dog to our pack when there’s no way my husband would ever agree to spend $5000 plus on a dog.

 

 

7 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

 

 

 

But most off your expenses where management issues that could have been avoided like the carpet .

All the rest is what every other breeder does .

 

 

For many off us our stock has yearly eye tests ( costs gone up),heart testing ,hip/ elbows cost gone up on breeding stock.

DNA profiling off litter for aspects not cleared by parentage .Parentage testing required in Qld 

Registering litter with State Body costs gone up .

Puppy eye tests ,Baer testing .

Membership/kennel name renewals costs gone up .

Breeding license council.

 

 

I actually think more Breeders have kept there prices the same than raised them especially given the added costs they have compared to just having a litter.

The pet shop here was charging $4000 more than registered Breeders who health test 

Some odd Breeders raised there prices and they have talked the talk and in a few years time there promises will be interesting..

 

I know some people claiming there puppy costs had increased bigtime from a breeder but didn’t openly mention there pup was being flown over and freight costs have sky rocketed for transporting animals and Infact the pup cost the same the new freight costs that aren’t the Breeders fault where pricey .

 

 

Interesting  you say hubby wouldn’t dream of spending more than $5 for a dog but what you kept has cost more than $5 to produce,cover costs and raise so infact buying a pup would have been cheaper .

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Dogsfevr

[Diva]

I’m a bit cynical about it all.
From my perspective, the public allowed/demanded an increasingly onerous regulatory regime for dog breeding which by its very nature favours commercial breeding and drives out many of the small hobby breeders who did it out of interest more than for money, but found the new complicated bureaucratic world not worth the stress. 

Then the public complains about the entirely predictable rise in price, and shortages in popular breeds, and that they can’t afford or find puppies anymore, and calls the remaining breeders ‘greedy’, thus driving even more of the hobby breeders out because who needs the abuse. Of course it’s amplified by COVID demand, but the old saying ‘be careful what you ask for’ comes to mind. 
 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Diva

[asal]

2 hours ago, Diva said:

I’m a bit cynical about it all.
From my perspective, the public allowed/demanded an increasingly onerous regulatory regime for dog breeding which by its very nature favours commercial breeding and drives out many of the small hobby breeders who did it out of interest more than for money, but found the new complicated bureaucratic world not worth the stress. 

Then the public complains about the entirely predictable rise in price, and shortages in popular breeds, and that they can’t afford or find puppies anymore, and calls the remaining breeders ‘greedy’, thus driving even more of the hobby breeders out because who needs the abuse. Of course it’s amplified by COVID demand, but the old saying ‘be careful what you ask for’ comes to mind. 
 

 

 

Exactly correct,

 

the pack cry to "eliminate backyard breeders and puppy farmers" has eliminated tens of thousands of ankc members alone.  I have no doubt its done the same to similar percentage of other register members.

 

The attitude of potential puppy buyers has driven many away as well, the ever obvious "is this person a fit and proper person to have bred my fur child" or the ever increasing number who view the breeder as having "prostituted their fur child and then sold their fur grandchildren" 

 

This was one too much for me the day the officious bastard asked me, mind you only after she had her "rescued fur child" safely in her car and about to leave. did she ask me "how can you live with yourself? Prostituting your fur child and then selling your fur grandchildren?"

 

As others have said.

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

there are over 28 million Australians.

 

The amazing contributions our pets make to our mental health is enormous, utterly enormous!

 

yet the never ending vilification of any who actually breed the pets so many of us adore and need in our lives borders on the insane

 

Common sense, is no longer common, in fact I think its almost been eradicated from the human race

 

the silence even here on the subject is very sad.

 

the nutters have the pollies scrambling to legislate all companion animal breeding into extinction.

 

I even posted the latest insult to the few now left that has been drafted with hopes of being made law by the animal justice party whose sole aim has nothing to do with animal justice, I doubt our animals want to become extinct, we know how much they love life. but soon there will be only those in the wild with the chance to be born. because that is the agenda, extinction of the domestic dog and cat. Horses are next.  after them cattle sheep, goats u name it. THAT IS THE AGENDA and who is waking up to this?

 

precious few

 

 

[REALOldNick]

I am 1000% in favour of adoption of rescue dogs! You are performing a huge service to unwanted pets, of which there are a shocking number. In Australia, with a human population of 25 Mil, there are 250,000 dogs abandoned pets a year! If the poor things are surrendered, or at least left tied up outside a home. In my time I have found 3 dead dogs that were just dumped: one tied to a tree in the bush to die and the other two with broken necks.

 

200,000 dogs and cats are euthanased every year in Australia! Do not get a dog with the idea of breeding. You create more dogs that will possibly be abandoned after Xmas.

 

So go to your pet shelters, look around. The good ones insist on sterilisation. Don't be too fussy about breed: mixed breed dogs will reward with love as much as, if not more than, a breed dog. All of my dogs over the years have been rescued. They have rewarded me far beyond their cost in every case. But as with every pet purchase make sure you are getting the right dog for your circumstances: kids, older people, room to exercise, or ability to walk/run every day. But that applies to every dog acquisition.

 

It will still cost you several hundred dollars, but they will show any problems and should have been vet-checked.

 

I you MUST buy from a breeder, MAKE SURE of their reputation and qualifications.

[Rebanne]

be very fussy about breed! What's the point in buying a dog, and that's what adoption is, that does not suit you? Dog is unhappy, people are unhappy, something bad can and often happens.

[Diva]

9 hours ago, REALOldNick said:

 

So go to your pet shelters, look around. The good ones insist on sterilisation. Don't be too fussy about breed: mixed breed dogs will reward with love as much as, if not more than, a breed dog. All of my dogs over the years have been rescued. They have rewarded me far beyond their cost in every case. But as with every pet purchase make sure you are getting the right dog for your circumstances: kids, older people, room to exercise, or ability to walk/run every day. But that applies to every dog acquisition.

 

 

I think rescue is great. But I think people need to BE FUSSY, not just on breed but on the characteristics of the dog itself. Be VERY FUSSY if there are existing pets, small children, particular lifestyle needs or not a lot of experience. It can go very bad very quickly if people are not fussy.
 

Rescue  also has the structural problem that people don’t want to face - of enabling the culture that says it’s fine to get a puppy, not train it, and dump it on a pound when it gets inconvenient because someone else will rescue it. Cause it’s all the breeders’ fault, right? Not the owners or the culture that would rather churn dogs through rescue then support responsible breeders whose dogs are much, much less likely to end up in rescue in the first place. 
 

That’s a quandary, we can’t ignore the dog in need because it enables the culture that put it in need. Of course we can’t. But we need to look beyond the immediate to see the full system at work. 

 

BE FUSSY in picking your breeder too. Whoever you get your dog/puppy from pick carefully, commit to meeting its needs, and that is what will remove the need for rescue. Not boycotting breeders. 
 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Diva

[Diva]

5 minutes ago, Diva said:

Sorry, I managed to double post 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Diva

[Dogsfevr]

11 hours ago, REALOldNick said:

 

 

It will still cost you several hundred dollars, but they will show any problems and should have been vet-checked.

 

I you MUST buy from a breeder, MAKE SURE of their reputation and qualifications.

If only the above comments where true.
Most rescues come under no form of regulation or requirements .
Many place dogs out knowingly to the wrong homes without full disclosure of history and no plan to take back when owners struggle or get fobbed off with try a bit longer or harder .They need to move dogs on & often the only way is to be creative .
I see dogs monthly  from rescues placed into homes inappropriately & with obvious issues never disclosed on the paperwork & in return owners who will never go through rescue again which is devasting & they certainly wont recommend that path either .
We have done/helped  breed rescue & being honest & realistic comes with many tough decisions, heart ache and wonderful endings .


If buying from a rescue group then apply the same rules make sure of there reputation & qualifications 
 

[Rascalmyshadow]

12 hours ago, REALOldNick said:

Rescue dogs are not suitable for everyone and a lot of rescues have so many rules and regulations that many people wouldn’t qualify for one of their dogs anyway.

[Rascalmyshadow]

21 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

 

 

But most off your expenses where management issues that could have been avoided like the carpet .

All the rest is what every other breeder does .

 

 

For many off us our stock has yearly eye tests ( costs gone up),heart testing ,hip/ elbows cost gone up on breeding stock.

DNA profiling off litter for aspects not cleared by parentage .Parentage testing required in Qld 

Registering litter with State Body costs gone up .

Puppy eye tests ,Baer testing .

Membership/kennel name renewals costs gone up .

Breeding license council.

 

 

I actually think more Breeders have kept there prices the same than raised them especially given the added costs they have compared to just having a litter.

The pet shop here was charging $4000 more than registered Breeders who health test 

Some odd Breeders raised there prices and they have talked the talk and in a few years time there promises will be interesting..

 

I know some people claiming there puppy costs had increased bigtime from a breeder but didn’t openly mention there pup was being flown over and freight costs have sky rocketed for transporting animals and Infact the pup cost the same the new freight costs that aren’t the Breeders fault where pricey .

 

 

Interesting  you say hubby wouldn’t dream of spending more than $5 for a dog but what you kept has cost more than $5 to produce,cover costs and raise so infact buying a pup would have been cheaper .

 

Dogsfevr incorrect, I didn’t have management issues, yes the carpet was a big expense however no different to an unexpected c-section.

I ended up breaking even and got a free puppy to add to my pack so I’m the end actually saved myself about $5000.

[coneye]

Its a hard one  , theres 5 sides to the story ,, Rescue dogs are fine , , i've  had 3 from the pound including my current dog , all have been great dogs .

However if you want a specific type of dog because it suits your needs or you just like the look of them , well expect to pay more from a breeder .

Now once that is established breeders ,  spend copiious amounts of money we all know that and are entitled to a return and maybee even a profit ,, we all know that has well its not rocket scence ,

 

Now how much should you pay ,, for me   if i want a dog for showing which is going to be good enough for  the crufts dog show , i would expect to pay BIG MONEY , and then expect the dog to be on mains regitrar ,  with the papers and pedigree to back it up , and after i / it the dog won the crufts show , i would expect to get some money back from  its pups ,

 

But if i bought a dog from jack up the road who just likes great danes , owns two  , puts them together and then tells me he's a responsible breeder , and thats why his pups are 6 grand each , well sorry jack unless you give me mains registrar  , i'm not giving you 6 grand,, i would also want a good pedigree , and too see that jacks two dogs are a good example of the breed ,,, Now Jack can get has shirty has he likes  but for me , its simple ,, breeders of good dogs especielly show dogs are proud of what they have acheived  and whaen asking big money  are proud there offsprings are producing champion dogs ,  when the purposly do not want you to show or breed there dogs , that just says closed shop ,, go on bugger off   i don't want you breeding and   selling pups to cheap , because at the moment i can get 5 grand a pup  with no or little money spent and big returns  and i don't want competition ,

 

Now they will call you a BYB and  defend themselves all day long but the facts are  most of them are BYB  ,  like i said quality dogs will reflect the price , and if i want a dog to show or breed from , then  i will expect to pay big money but for a pet , nope  not me  i'd certainly look for a rescue dog .

 

But the price of dogs being very high , its really just a case of supply and demand ,  In days gone by you wanted a German Shepard  or a rotty ,  if you wanted a pedigree champion you went to an established quality breeder  if you did'nt well there was always the trading post  you could go buy one from , because Jack and Jill had two shepards that had pups ,, thats no longer there  or not much ,  so you have to go too a registered breeder ,, who polices the rules by refusing to sell on mains registrar and insisting you get the pup desexed ,,,  But bear in mind  they are dog breeders no police ,, now bear in mind in SA , its illigal to buy a dog from a breeder and not desex it UNLESS you become a registred  breeder yourself ,, so the laws are there   there is no need for breeders in SA to  give themselves a badge and police the law ,, the only reason for insisting on ltd registra is simple ,, CUT OUT COMPETITION ..  But like i said if Joe Blo  spends thousans and thousands , producing award winning show dogs  he can expect a return on his money thats fair ,,, If his neighbor Bill spends thousands importing working  German Shepard lines to be bred for security ,  don't expect these dogs too be cheap , you will get what you pay for ,, the problem is'nt with these people its with the others that  just register with the appropriate assoc  , call themselves reptable breeders and really just offer poor sub standard dogs for ridiculous prices , and to defend them,selve quote the figures that the good breeders spend

[The Spotted Devil]

9 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

Dogsfevr incorrect, I didn’t have management issues, yes the carpet was a big expense however no different to an unexpected c-section.

I ended up breaking even and got a free puppy to add to my pack so I’m the end actually saved myself about $5000.

So your time is worth nothing?

[sandgrubber]

9 hours ago, The Spotted Devil said:

So your time is worth nothing?

Time spent on hobbies is counted differently.

[DogsAndTheMob]

On 26/10/2021 at 1:04 AM, REALOldNick said:

200,000 dogs and cats are euthanased every year in Australia! .

Where did you get that statistic? Is it a current statistic for Australia? It’s over half the number for the whole of the USA.

 

My understanding is that euthanasia rates have dropped dramatically. Tweed Shire Council, for example, reports a drop in euthanasia rates from 196 in 2010/11 to 28 in 2019/20.  The RSPCA also reports a drop in both dogs coming into care and the proportion euthanased. They state that they euthanased 3466 dogs in the 2019/20 financial year. I wish the number was lower, but I doubt if it could ever humanely be zero.

 

I’ve been looking for a dog for an elderly relative, with no success. Almost all the dogs that I’ve seen are boisterous, young large-breed dogs that are not suitable for every home.

Edited October 27, 2021 by DogsAndTheMob

[_PL_]

Cats are in big trouble. Some pounds have dropped their cat euth rates to zero by not taking them in anymore. Kind of messes with the stats. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:16 PM, The Spotted Devil said:

So your time is worth nothing?

Yes my time is worth something the pup I ended up keeping was payment enough, with the inflated price the only way for us to potentially own any more dogs is to breed from our own, something I would have never considered doing in the past, luckily I don’t really care if they’re pure or crosses as long as they’re healthy with good temperaments.

 

oh and just as a side note, we didn’t intentionally breed from our girl but we made sure we didn’t everything right.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Rascalmyshadow

[Tempus Fugit]

How about these? https://www.theland.com.au/story/7529495/kelpie-female-to-24000-in-the-working-dog-challenge-auction-photos/?cs=4941

[Papillon Kisses]

12 hours ago, Tempus Fugit said:

How about these? https://www.theland.com.au/story/7529495/kelpie-female-to-24000-in-the-working-dog-challenge-auction-photos/?cs=4941

Or this! https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jun/15/kelpie-fetches-world-breaking-35200-at-australian-working-dog-auction

[Rascalmyshadow]

Those are not family pets and I would expect to pay a high price for a trained working dog or a dog for breeding and showing.

My younger daughter desperately wants another chihuahua but I’m not even game enough to make contact with any breeders as I know they don’t like being asked how much, and the likelihood is they will be more than we can afford, I also don’t want to waste anyone’s time.