The Cost of Puppies is outrageous

[The Spotted Devil]

Yep, I’ve always said I work so I can afford to breed 

[Rebanne]

and there is this: the little girl is 5, she's learning so many valuable lessons here. Including you don't always get what you want when you want. That it's not easy to "replace" a beloved pet/person. That grieving won't kill you though it feels like it. That saving up for something wanted so badly is oh so satisfying.  And so on.

[The Spotted Devil]

5 minutes ago, Rebanne said:

and there is this: the little girl is 5, she's learning so many valuable lessons here. Including you don't always get what you want when you want. That it's not easy to "replace" a beloved pet/person. That grieving won't kill you though it feels like it. That saving up for something wanted so badly is oh so satisfying.  And so on.

 

Oh beautifully put @Rebanne and so very true.

[stellnme]

5 hours ago, Ann Renders said:

I do understand if you want a breeding dog however not everyone wants to breed as as REBANNE  said why don't we look at animal rescue, pounds & rescue........we have & the prices are still very high nearly 100% are $1000 or more.........dont get me wrong we don't expect to pay nothing for the pup but I suppose she'll just have to save up....thankyou fir your replues

$1000 is pretty high for a rescue, in my experience, although the adopter is getting a fully vet worked animal - vaccinated, desexed, microchipped, worming, dental and skin treatment if needed plus the costs (food, etc.) of keeping the animal in foster for as long as it takes to have it ready for adoption.  Then there's the unpaid costs of home checks and often hours of emails and vetting potential adopters to place the animal in the right home for it.  In my years of rescue there was never anything like a profit, always out of pocket expenses.  I'd suggest that you contact rescue organisations in your State and tell them what you are looking for - make the connection so that if and when an animal becomes adoptable, they will contact you.

[Pucapo]

Get a cat.

[paul1]

Just keep going to the pound chances are you will not find a pedigree and you will be extremly lucky to find a small little white fluffy malltese cross , although i got one , i actually went in to buy a big full grown mastiff i knew was there , and walked out with this perfect half cat half dog  not a proper dog but perfect familly dog  LOL  Just keep going to the pound , keep an eye on gumtree and chech your local boards in the supermarkets  honestly i checked them 8 years ago and come acroos a familly moving interstate ,  they needed to find a home for a pedigree stumpy tailed heeler i took him , after a year i gave him to my son because my grandkids loved him , he a beutiful familly dog  9 years old now . They are out there you dont need to buy an expensive pedigree half of them are not very good anyway  most are not selling top quality dogs anyway  and this breed fot temprement is mostly rubbish they would,nt know there dogs are in kennells and runs out the bag the only love they get is when they get a bowl of food put in with them ..... There ya go  bring on the abuse , this lady was only expressing concern over overprized dogs and you all jumped down her throat , take some back 

[_PL_]

1 minute ago, paul1 said:

Just keep going to the pound chances are you will not find a pedigree and you will be extremly lucky to find a small little white fluffy malltese cross , although i got one , i actually went in to buy a big full grown mastiff i knew was there , and walked out with this perfect half cat half dog  not a proper dog but perfect familly dog  LOL  Just keep going to the pound , keep an eye on gumtree and chech your local boards in the supermarkets  honestly i checked them 8 years ago and come acroos a familly moving interstate ,  they needed to find a home for a pedigree stumpy tailed heeler i took him , after a year i gave him to my son because my grandkids loved him , he a beutiful familly dog  9 years old now . They are out there you dont need to buy an expensive pedigree half of them are not very good anyway  most are not selling top quality dogs anyway  and this breed fot temprement is mostly rubbish they would,nt know there dogs are in kennells and runs out the bag the only love they get is when they get a bowl of food put in with them ..... There ya go  bring on the abuse , this lady was only expressing concern over overprized dogs and you all jumped down her throat , take some back 

 

Spellcheck.

 

You're rambling. And 'bring on the abuse' ..... you're the one losing the plot, nobody else.

 

 

[The Spotted Devil]

Just saw this on FB....not blaming the new puppy owner at all but how do you think this is going to end up.....? The poor Mum being expected to feed the pup on her own at 4.5 weeks! My lot start on solids ASAP, 3 to 3.5 weeks and Mum weans them when she's good and ready. There's a hell of a lot more to breeding than producing cute puppies. I like both these breeds but the combination makes me shudder, particularly without that critical socialisation with litter mates and mum.

 

Quote

I've just gotten a maremma cross rottweiler mix puppy who is 6 weeks old now but had to leave mum at 4 1/2 weeks due to mum stopping feeding and owners not fit to look after.

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by The Spotted Devil

[Rebanne]

37 minutes ago, paul1 said:

..... There ya go  bring on the abuse , this lady was only expressing concern over overprized dogs and you all jumped down her throat , take some back 

Charmed I'm sure

[paul1]

13 hours ago, The Spotted Devil said:

Just saw this on FB....not blaming the new puppy owner at all but how do you think this is going to end up.....? The poor Mum being expected to feed the pup on her own at 4.5 weeks! My lot start on solids ASAP, 3 to 3.5 weeks and Mum weans them when she's good and ready. There's a hell of a lot more to breeding than producing cute puppies. I like both these breeds but the combination makes me shudder, particularly without that critical socialisation with litter mates and mum.

 

 

Perhaps give this lady a link , she could offer to rehome the pup

Edited September 21, 2021 by paul1

[stellnme]

11 hours ago, paul1 said:

Perhaps give this lady a link , she could offer to rehome the pup

I actually did give her some options.

[paul1]

1 hour ago, stellnme said:

I actually did give her some options.

Very good ,, well done ,, Certainly better than a lecture about how much it costs to breed ,  or being told your 5 year old will learn a lesson ,  poor lady only  posted about how expensive they were ,,, and they are .

[Loving my Oldies]

37 minutes ago, paul1 said:

Very good ,, well done ,, Certainly better than a lecture about how much it costs to breed ,  or being told your 5 year old will learn a lesson ,  poor lady only  posted about how expensive they were ,,, and they are .

 

The “poor lady” was abusive in her opening post.  She was the one calling people “disgusting & greedy.”   I doubt she is even on the forum now as she didn’t get the sympathy and responses she wanted.   

 

[iwanttodie3070]

On 21/09/2021 at 9:02 AM, Ann Renders said:

My 5 year old grandaughter is devastated because her mother had to euthanase there 12 year old dog who was very ill. She asked her mother for a puppy but because the prices are in the thousands of dollars her mother cannot afford one. It's just heartbreaking and I think it is just disgusting & greedy...it would have a loving family & good home, it's a pity people care more about the money than the wellbeing of their puppy. Just because people have a lot of money  doesnt mean it will go to a loving home..

How?

[asal]

for decades the thought police have been telling us, you should not ask a price to cover the cost of breeding a puppy, that's why puppy prices for ankc puppies stayed low for so long.  The desire to be seen as ethical and responsible meant you never bred except to replace the parents.   only a puppy farmer bred more than that and the second the thought police decided, they got busy dialing rspca, animal welfare and local council to humiliate the target and hoping they would be charged with something.  

 

the assumption if you bred your dogs you had to do so at a loss somehow made you a better person had me at a loss, I used to ask does your doctor, your plumber, your  mechanic say im ethical, im responsible my time is worth nothing, im happy to do the job for less than the cost of parts and equipment? as for a wage to live on?  no my time is worth nothing. I want to be ethical and responsible that's

all I desire.

 

why the ankc's main base of pensioners in the 80's began to disappear as they just could not dare ask enough to cover the ever rising costs of living let alone vet bills, it was a decades long campaign to restrict all but the independently wealthy from breeding if you were an ankc member. it was unrelenting destruction from within, the steady decline in membership, litters bred is all there to see in the annual returns.

 

as for the eliminating puppy farms and back yard breeders, well all that has achieved is legislation to ensure the existence of the POCTA inspections which is what? 

 

Blue print for a puppy farm?

 

 

As a friend said not that long ago, I dont think we belong  in the ankc anymore, the first prerequisite for being a member today is stupidity.

 

I am AMAZED people here are finally speaking sense.

 

only taken 40 years.

 

CONGRATULATIONS ALL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by asal

[asal]

now for miracle number two.

 

change the emphasis from show fads to health and soundness.

 

no more faces so short they cant breathe normally

 

cant whelp without a ceaserarian.

 

as for eliminating mitral valve and so many other life shortening genes.

 

it can be done.

 

need another mind change,   save semen at least best case, also eggs in best case.   so dogs and bitches which old age prove are free and or live into healthy old age.

 

none of this can be selected for while they are young enough to breed from.

 

if members could all work for the good of all and their breed. pool resources and save for the future.

 

identified males is cheaper than also saving eggs from the girls/

 

once identified clear for the conditions there is no dna tests for yet, they can be used to breed clear puppies.

 

in normal scenario it can take up to 12 generations of clear males to create a clear population, but I found when I did what my geneticist friend told me what to do had completely clear after only 6 generations. ok, seems a long time. but surely well worth the result

 

no more fodder to be found for a 2nd "pedigree dogs exposed" documentary

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by asal

[asal]

A customer asked me how much it cost to make a table....

I answered him: $ 1500

He said: So expensive for this job?

I asked: How much do you think it would cost you?

He answers me: $ 800 maximum... That's a pretty simple job right? !"

- For $ 800 I invite you to do it yourself.

- But.... I don't know how to.

- For $800 I'll teach you how to. So besides saving you $700, you'll get the knowledge for the next time you want

- It seemed right to him and he agreed.

- But to get started: you need tools: A table saw, a planer, a top, dormants, etc...

- But I don't have all these equipment and I can't buy all of these for one job.

- Well then for another $250 more I'll rent my stuff to you so you can do it.

- Okay, he says.

- Okay! Tuesday I'm waiting for you to start doing this work

- But I can't on Tuesday I only have time today.

- I'm sorry, but I'm only available Tuesday to teach you and lend you my stuff. Other days are busy with other customers.

- Okay! That means I'm going to have to sacrifice my Tuesday, give up my tasks.

- I forgot. To do your job yourself, you also have to pay for the nonproductive factors.

- That is? What is this?"

- Bureaucratic, tax, vat, security, insurance, fuel etc.

- Oh no!... But to accomplish these tasks, I'm going to spend more money and waste a lot of time!

- Do you have them? You can do it to me before?"

- Okay!

- I'll make you all the material you need. Truck loading is done Monday evening or Tuesday morning you'll have to come by 6 loading the truck. Don't forget to be on time to avoid traffic jams and be on time

- At 6??? Nope! Too early for me! I used to getting up later.

...

- You know, I've been thinking. Y ' all better get the job done. I'd rather pay you the $1500. If I had to, it wouldn't be perfect and it would cost me a lot more.

When you pay for a job, especially handcrafted, you pay not only for the material used, but also:

- Knowledge

- Experience

- Study

- Tools

- Services

- Time to go

- punctuality

- Accountability

- Professionalism

- Accuracy

- Guaranteed

- Patents

- Sacrifices

- Safety and security

- Payment of tax obligations

No one can denigrate other people's work by judging prices.

Only by knowing all the elements necessary for the production of a certain work can you estimate the actual cost.

I did not write this dialogue, but am sharing it to support craftsmen and entrepreneurs.

[paul1]

I really don't think the price of a dog is the issue when your buying  quality ,,, If i wanted to buy the crofts  dog show winner or its  offspring , i suppose  i would have to pay huge amounts  ,, breeders being compensated for there time  is not an issue ,, if they feel there dogs are worth more because there a better breeder  and have better dogs than the bloke  up the rd ,  well fair enough let it reflect in the price  , and the market will dictate ,, people doing there homework will decide for themselves wether to pay for the dog from the real quality breeder of champions , or Kate up the road , with a real dog of a dog  in  the sence of the word who breeds  with her  mate  with another bad example of the breed , and then lay claim to be breeders just because there registered with an organization ,,, there wants and there pockets will decide ,

 

 I think the problem arises  when  there is no stock so to speak  which then enables byb  and bad breeders to command the top dollar regardless off the quality , I've noticed mastiffs are becoming popular again ,   i speak on the dog beach to many owners , who all say i got him /she from a breeder , and there not full mastiffs usually cross   with bull mastiff and neo mastiff or that french one thrown in , the lack of stock is enabling these so called breeders of mongrels to  charge the same or similar money  to the proper respectable breeders who really do have the breeds and dogs interest at heart .

 

I've never bred a dog and never shown a dog , so i'm just an outsider looking in  on the industry , and i choose the word industry very carefully because thats what it is  or has become ,  , I think the problem  irises and can be fixed with this ltd papers rubbish ,,, I've enquired  after being told on here that SA  has  a law  about desexing dogs  , i think its a good law   , because after speaking to the council , they tell me , if i buy  a puppy on mains  i have   a certain amount of time  to join  the relevent organization  and become a breeder or shower of said dog ...

 

But its the breeder who has become judge and jury insisting on  ltd papers  and hence stopped myself or anyone else from doing it  and therefore limiting stock ,, so whats it acheived ,, its acheived  ltd stock high prices and people  who want to  just throwing together two dogs and getting maybee 2-3 grand a pup  for mongrels ,,  its killed its own industry .

 

 

[tdierikx]

@paul1... it's a simple case of supply and demand... demand for puppies rose drastically when we started going into all the lockdowns... maybe if you wait a year or two, prices may normalise again.

 

T.

[paul1]

52 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

@paul1... it's a simple case of supply and demand... demand for puppies rose drastically when we started going into all the lockdowns... maybe if you wait a year or two, prices may normalise again.

 

T.

The market will always dictate , people will pay what they can afford and probably no more ,,, But for me the price of a dog is'nt an issue .  30 plus years ago i paid $800 for a GSD  which i knew could not be shown , apparantly  the breeder told me  its long haired and its too big  , ,, but heh i did'nt care i bought it because it was the biggest , bmost boisterous pup there , it also found me , once it started biting  or rather mouthing my feet and latched on to my jeans   , that was it   cost did'nt come into it he was mine ,,, but i did get papers he was on mains regitrar , granted laws have changed now ..  I've paid out big money for  numerous dogs , i personaly always believed in going to a breeder ,  if there bred right they should resemble what the breed is known for  and if you pay big money you should and are entitled to a good example of the breed ,, so the money is imaterial , providing its fair , .

 

My problem with finding a dog at the moment is not money its  the right dog  i have a little dog  and its a great dog  but i want a mate ,,for him , I would prefer a fully grown dog  that needs a good home ,,, already housetrained , and past the  ripping your house to bits stage LOL   also has to be good with other dogs ,,, looking at dogs from breeders the adult housetrained seems to be the hard part ,, understandable if you have 5 -6 big mastiffs , rottys ,whatever pretty hard to let them all live in the house