Is an extra 1000 worth mains register?

[Mikey88]

I have the option to pay an extra 1k for mains register is it worth it ? If i want to breed purebred dogs ? Whivh i do but they will be dna tested anyways . So i still be better off with mains register for both parents or it doesnt matter ? 

Because i have the option for either

Thanks

[BDJ]

It depends entirely on what you want to do, and what agreement you have with the breeder.

 

From the NSW website:

The ANKC issues two types of registration papers,  and each puppy bought from an ANKC breeder will come with its own pedigree, either Main or Limited Registration. If a breeder has issued Main Register (blue) papers for your dog, it can be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas. If the breeder has issued Limited Register papers (orange) it cannot be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas.

 

You note you wish to breed - again, it depends on the 'why'.  If you are planning on breeding with another dog of the same breed and selling for 'general' purposes - then most members of the public will be ok with a parent having limited register.  You are still going against the rules though.   But if you are wanting to show in an ANKC show, then you will be out of luck.

 

I am not sure what you mean by 'they will be DNA tested'.  Why would they be tested?  And against what?  DNA testing in pedigree dogs is usually to verify the pedigree - not do a DNA test to check the pooch at your feet is actually a Pointer, or a pug or a whatever

 

The fact you say that you can get mains registration for an extra $1000 - I assume either you have a great relationship with the breeder (who believes the pup is of outstanding quality *at this time* [note the at this time - they can either improve or not come on as expected] and is happy for you to breed/show/whatever with mains registration) OR you are buying of someone who is more focussed on $$$$.   If the former - great, chat with them about the differences.  If the later - well I would be running a thousand miles personally.

 

Just a thought - breeding is not permitted on limited register.  So as long as you are going in with eyes wide open.  I don't agree or condone breeding from a dog on limited register - it can be done, but is against the rules

[Rebanne]

Your original post said you didn't want to breed.

To register a pup with ANKC costs the breeder about 50 bucks. No way I'd pay a thousand for papers. What a rip off. 

I know some breeders do charge extra for potential breeding quality, but remember, unless buying a mature dog, it's only potential. Of course if you pay extra for papers you are often getting a lot of mentoring from the breeder but not $1000 worth.

[Mikey88]

25 minutes ago, BDJ said:

It depends entirely on what you want to do, and what agreement you have with the breeder.

 

From the NSW website:

The ANKC issues two types of registration papers,  and each puppy bought from an ANKC breeder will come with its own pedigree, either Main or Limited Registration. If a breeder has issued Main Register (blue) papers for your dog, it can be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas. If the breeder has issued Limited Register papers (orange) it cannot be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas.

 

You note you wish to breed - again, it depends on the 'why'.  If you are planning on breeding with another dog of the same breed and selling for 'general' purposes - then most members of the public will be ok with a parent having limited register.  You are still going against the rules though.   But if you are wanting to show in an ANKC show, then you will be out of luck.

 

I am not sure what you mean by 'they will be DNA tested'.  Why would they be tested?  And against what?  DNA testing in pedigree dogs is usually to verify the pedigree - not do a DNA test to check the pooch at your feet is actually a Pointer, or a pug or a whatever

 

The fact you say that you can get mains registration for an extra $1000 - I assume either you have a great relationship with the breeder (who believes the pup is of outstanding quality *at this time* [note the at this time - they can either improve or not come on as expected] and is happy for you to breed/show/whatever with mains registration) OR you are buying of someone who is more focussed on $$$$.   If the former - great, chat with them about the differences.  If the later - well I would be running a thousand miles personally.

 

Just a thought - breeding is not permitted on limited register.  So as long as you are going in with eyes wide open.  I don't agree or condone breeding from a dog on limited register - it can be done, but is against the rules

I meant the breeders that sell em without any register have the parents dna tested proving they are real and they are cheaper then the one im looking at thats 1k more with papers  . So if i just wanted to sell as pets then i would be better off paying the cheaper price right ? 

[Mikey88]

1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

Your original post said you didn't want to breed.

To register a pup with ANKC costs the breeder about 50 bucks. No way I'd pay a thousand for papers. What a rip off. 

I know some breeders do charge extra for potential breeding quality, but remember, unless buying a mature dog, it's only potential. Of course if you pay extra for papers you are often getting a lot of mentoring from the breeder but not $1000 worth.

Yes but in this case the dog is at a good price ive seen them cost the same as what she wants without main register or even abit more without main register. 

But if i intend on breeding just dogs for the purpose of people wanting it as a pet then no point paying the extra cash for main register aye ? 

[asal]

On 02/05/2021 at 4:21 PM, BDJ said:

It depends entirely on what you want to do, and what agreement you have with the breeder.

 

From the NSW website:

The ANKC issues two types of registration papers,  and each puppy bought from an ANKC breeder will come with its own pedigree, either Main or Limited Registration. If a breeder has issued Main Register (blue) papers for your dog, it can be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas. If the breeder has issued Limited Register papers (orange) it cannot be exhibited at a Conformation Show, used for breeding purposes or exported overseas.

 

You note you wish to breed - again, it depends on the 'why'.  If you are planning on breeding with another dog of the same breed and selling for 'general' purposes - then most members of the public will be ok with a parent having limited register.  You are still going against the rules though.   But if you are wanting to show in an ANKC show, then you will be out of luck.

 

I am not sure what you mean by 'they will be DNA tested'.  Why would they be tested?  And against what?  DNA testing in pedigree dogs is usually to verify the pedigree - not do a DNA test to check the pooch at your feet is actually a Pointer, or a pug or a whatever

 

The fact you say that you can get mains registration for an extra $1000 - I assume either you have a great relationship with the breeder (who believes the pup is of outstanding quality *at this time* [note the at this time - they can either improve or not come on as expected] and is happy for you to breed/show/whatever with mains registration) OR you are buying of someone who is more focussed on $$$$.   If the former - great, chat with them about the differences.  If the later - well I would be running a thousand miles personally.

 

Just a thought - breeding is not permitted on limited register.  So as long as you are going in with eyes wide open.  I don't agree or condone breeding from a dog on limited register - it can be done, but is against the rules

 

 

in my opinion parentage verification is just a rip off, if you only have one male there is no doubt of the sire. and it someones mongrel got to her you surre dont need to parentage verify to know the puppies are x breds, well remember a friends girl had three purebred cattledog pups and 9 rotti x. turned out her son had been letting her out "for a run" when he got home from work. no body needed a dna test done to ascertain which 3 were the purebred cattledog pups in that litter. or they badly needed glasses.

 

the only decent dna testing is for the faulty genes they have found the markers for.

 

that is money well spent.  https://www.orivet.com/store/canine-full-breed-profile

 

 

At least Karen Hedberg BVSc.  Dogs NSW Chairman knew this and refused to toe to line all the other ANKC Branches blindly followed to appease the PETA nutters.

 

being a vet she knows which dna tests are the important ones and which are just money spinners for the dna labs.

 

I well remember when the arab horse society enforced parentage verification in every foal for registration.  only 4% were wrong parentage. 2 of that 4 % were not wrong sire. their mums had switched foals and since both mums were purebred anyway. how many millions have gone into the lab coffers to preserve the "purity" of the breed?

 

my other foal who I knew was incorrect sire I didn't need a dna test to tell me, I knew when he was born. he was chestnut.  The horse he was supposed to be by is a dominant grey.  so all the parentage verification test did was validate my certainty that Ti had pulled a miracle and managed to sire him from the other side of a six foot cyclone fence? Neither Ti or his mum would tell us how they managed that one. n nope there were no missing links in the fence?  

 

only the foals colour told us who was his dad. no explanations ever given by the parties involved.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by asal

[_PL_]

15 hours ago, Mikey88 said:

Yes but in this case the dog is at a good price ive seen them cost the same as what she wants without main register or even abit more without main register. 

But if i intend on breeding just dogs for the purpose of people wanting it as a pet then no point paying the extra cash for main register aye ? 

So you know how to breed dogs? It's not just putting two together and waiting for the $ to appear. 

[Pjrt]

If it’s important to you that you can mains register offspring and potentially enter the dog and it’s offspring into ANKC conformation shows, then that’s where the value lies. 
If those things are not important to you, then why waste $1000 bucks. 
Many people still strongly believe that the ONLY way to produce sound healthy dogs is to limit breeding exclusively to health tested blue papered conformation champions! 
I might have used to largely subscribe to that thinking myself. Until I opened my eyes and took a good hard look at what that has left us with

Lets just say I’m glad that people are still breeding mongrels, off paper pedigrees, out crosses etc. The long term survival of domestic dogs actually depends on it!!

 

 

[_PL_]

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

I might have used to largely subscribe to that thinking myself. Until I opened my eyes and took a good hard look at what that has left us with

Lets just say I’m glad that people are still breeding mongrels, off paper pedigrees, out crosses etc. The long term survival of domestic dogs actually depends on it!!

 

 

Yes the pounds are full of them or they're ageing quietly, sitting unseen in no kill shelters.
But we're told there's not enough dogs to go around. So clearly not enough of the desirable kind of dog. 

The long term survival of domestic dogs doesn't extend to staffy, bull arab and working breed crosses, it's a tragic example of natural selection for them.  

[Pucapo]

You seem to have posted a lot lately in this forum and reading back through all of your post you clearly want to be a breeder of toy poodle dogs. Why not just say that to start with?

 

Some very experienced people on this forum have explained quite clearly the suggested way to go to achieve this. IF you want to breed pedigree pups. Read the replies again.

 

The purchase price of a dog is entirely up to you. What do you want to spend, and what is it worth to you? Breeders can easily ask more for mains, and they get it. If you want the pup you will have to pay it.

It doesn't really matter if anybody else here thinks it is fair or not.

 

But, If you think these inflated prices for pups are going to continue, you are fooled.

 

They were inflated due to a matter of supply and demand during lockdown, but this will even out and turn the other way.

 

Every second person sees these prices, wants to be a breeder now, and thinks it's easy money. So there will be many many more puppies bred, less buyers, less money.

 

Breeding is a lot of work, it is a lot of heartache, and it is very expensive, particularly when things don't go to plan.

 

Good luck "Mikey"

 

 

[persephone]

On 02/05/2021 at 4:49 PM, Mikey88 said:

have the parents dna tested proving they are real

so what they have done is gone with one of the popular online DNA tests which tells you what your dog is ?  is it that sort of DNA test? 
This then is VERY different from a pedigreed dog - where you have a bloodline going back many generations - where you can see the history of every ancestor there on the page - where those ancestors have ( if the breeder does things ethically)  been tested for any faults/diseases they may carry , any championship titles won ,and which dogs created which litters. 

DNA testing to 'prove' a dog is 'pure' poodle  is very different to  a DNA test  looking for faults in the genetic make-up.

[Boronia]

Below is an example of a good database (and pedigrees)

Here's the link to the instructions on how to use http://www.dandiebase.com/instructions.php

and the link to the dog index http://www.dandiebase.com/card.php

How good is this database and how proud the breeders must be to be part of an important breeding program showing the lines of the dogs from way back.

Beat that all the BYB's out there

[Dogsfevr]

15 hours ago, asal said:

 

 

 

 

At least Karen Hedberg BVSc.  Dogs NSW Chairman knew this and refused to toe to line all the other ANKC Branches blindly followed to appease the PETA nutters.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you clarify this comment by which other ANKC branches 

[asal]

1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

Can you clarify this comment by which other ANKC branches 

 

well you cannot register any ankc litter in qld until all the puppies are parentage verified.

 

I believe its the same in all other states other than nsw. I remember when the ankc buckled to the demands to bring it in then Karen refused to bring NSW into line with the other states

 

correct me if im wrong.

[Rebanne]

4 hours ago, Pucapo said:

You seem to have posted a lot lately in this forum and reading back through all of your post you clearly want to be a breeder of toy poodle dogs. Why not just say that to start with?

 

 

 

I think he wants to breed "oodles" 

[JRG]

12 hours ago, asal said:

 

well you cannot register any ankc litter in qld until all the puppies are parentage verified.

 

I believe its the same in all other states other than nsw. I remember when the ankc buckled to the demands to bring it in then Karen refused to bring NSW into line with the other states

 

correct me if im wrong.

Not true in Victoria!

i thought (probably incorrectly) that Queensland is the only State where this is a requirement

[moosmum]

18 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

Yes the pounds are full of them or they're ageing quietly, sitting unseen in no kill shelters.
But we're told there's not enough dogs to go around. So clearly not enough of the desirable kind of dog. 

The long term survival of domestic dogs doesn't extend to staffy, bull arab and working breed crosses, it's a tragic example of natural selection for them.  

These dogs you speak of are discredited at every turn. And so we create the world you just descibed.

 

A tragic example of natural selection, when response-ability  and purpose is lost.

 

When a dogs value to the community lies in its 'Standard'.   Its 'State of being'.  Defined, predicted and clearly marginalized.

As opposed to the diversity of purpose served by its presence in our communities.

 

The belief is promoted that we should support nothing 'less' than predicted, clearly defined and marginalized states of being. Standards or statehoods.

And then discredit the alternatives in  disgust because the support given is not equal.

 

 

 

[moosmum]

The long term survival of Domestic dogs doesn't extend to Dobermanns or G.S.Ds, Bull dogs or Pekingese either, while they collapse in on themselves with nothing left to build them up from again.

[moosmum]

Form follows Function.

 

The mantra of breeders. So why the disconnect and inversion?  The cognitive dissonance?

 

Qualification applied to a Sum is its reductive measure. No matter how many times its repeated.

Its the wrong application of value!!

 

Value is Always Subjective.  Placing the value objectively is a physical and mathematical impossibility. 

The value is not in the form. Function will not follow.

 

 

 

 

[Dogsfevr]

14 hours ago, asal said:

 

well you cannot register any ankc litter in qld until all the puppies are parentage verified.

 

I believe its the same in all other states other than nsw. I remember when the ankc buckled to the demands to bring it in then Karen refused to bring NSW into line with the other states

 

correct me if im wrong.

You are wrong