Interested to hear from users of Apoquel

[westiemum]

On 03/05/2021 at 9:38 AM, Snook said:

Just on your comment about wanting vet advice about which raw foods to feed and how much, vets get very little nutrition training and most aren't actually great resources when it comes to diet. It's a bit like asking your GP for specific dietary advice.. they don't get much training in that area either. 

 

I was feeding my dog a diet that was was primarily raw plus sardines, natural Greek yoghurt and raw eggs for some variety, both nutritionally and from a taste perspective. I wasn't willing to try and get the right raw balance by myself (plus I hate handling raw meat and there was no way I was cutting up organs or grinding bones etc), so I fed him Big Dog Sensitive Skin BARF Patties. They're made in Australia from human grade ingredients and you can buy boxes of the patties from the freezer in places like Petstock. In terms of amount to feed, there's a guide on the box but it was about double what my senior boy needed, especially after taking in to account the other foods he got that I mentioned. I figured out the correct amount based on whether he gained weight on it or stayed the same. A vet we saw wasn't impressed that I wouldn't take him off of fresh, raw, healthy food and put him on the Hills dry food they sold, which is all I needed I to know about how educated they were on dog nutrition. 

 

Snook is completely correct.  I worked at a Vet School for a while a few years back.  Sadly vets have one or two, one-hour lectures on canine nutrition in their six years of training and its usually a pet food representative who delivers the lecture.  Go figure.  Its the same problem as GPs and drug reps. (Independent non-drug company funded studies clearly show drug reps have enormous influence on GP prescribing behaviour). So of course vets come away with the notion that industrially made carb heavy full of fillers dog pellets (I won't even call it food as in my mind its not) are fine for dogs.  But in actual fact they are made solely for commercial profits and for the convenience (IMO) of lazy owners who won't see through their BS. It's a very cunning strategy the dog pellet companies have run - make the highest profit pellets possible full of rubbish, then by controlling both the vets and the supply chain (pay for vet training, control the vets and their training - then they will strongly advocate their cheap nasty nutrition-less pellets for us and our dogs) - and they get happy and rich on the profits. And meanwhile chronic disease, allergies and itchiness in our dogs soars... (fact).  

 

I need to declare up front I'm a completely convinced raw feeder who won't let her dogs touch pellets, who believes we all get strung up and overthink dog feeding to a ridiculous point when as you say OP, they all thrived before the advent of commercial dog pellets and lived long healthy lives.  And funnily enough, like us they ate whole foods, not processed pellets.  I find it fascinating that the disease trajectories in dogs (and in us - increasing rates of obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc etc) are all on the rise since people started feeding (and eating the human equivalent), highly processed dog pellets with no moisture and full of fillers (cereals, grains, carbs, processed waste etc).

 

I find the best person to read and listen to is Dr Conor Brady an Irish animal nutritionist (not a vet) who has finally published his book called simply 'Feeding Dogs' (cheaper than one vet consult) and a page on Facebook called 'Dogs First Ireland'.  www.dogsfirst.ie.  OP if you do nothing else I suggest you have a read of the book and FB and then get on FB and ask him some questions.  He will also do (paid) online consults as well.

 

I've just started reading Conor's book and will always be a raw feeder. I look to balance my dogs food roughly without turning it into a major drama, as I think all this balance to the gram stuff is nonsense in the bigger picture (who balances their diet to such as degree?) and simply plays into the hands of the commercial dog pellet companies who sprout the 'whole food in a pellet' BS.  So here, my raw feeding is a bit of this and a bit of that, whatever is on special or available - seasonal eating with plenty of variety.  No 'Maccas for Dogs' here.  Here it's good healthy whole foods for my dogs - raw meat and fish from a raw supplier for dinner, chicken wings for breakfast, offal, chicken necks, turkey, WW cans of sardines and mackerel for when I forget to get their meat out of the freezer, pumpkin, carrot, swede (raw and cooked), and pure dehydrated liver (Australian made) and raw carrot and swede treats. RMBs for a good ol' weekend gnaw.  And my westies are thriving.  

 

Andy is 15/16 and he looks like he has years left in him yet, touch wood.    I find it easier now there are good raw suppliers popping up everywhere (there are some really good ones in Adelaide and the Adelaide Hills - Pete's Petfoods and Buddies Bites for a start). I buy human grade meats on special when I shop, ensure my westies are well hydrated and I sleep at night.   Found fresh salmon heads and tails at Buddies earlier in the week - and the westies thought they were marvellous - wonderful watching dogs chow down on raw food. - really tucking in and enjoying food as they should instead of becoming addicted to salt in pellets.  And neither of mine are itchy, have allergies or skin conditions that westies are notorious for.

 

Anyway you get my drift.  I know some will vehemently disagree - and you're welcome to.  Just would like you to produce the strong INDEPENDENTLY FUNDED research evidence that shows unequivocally that pellets enhance your dogs health and longevity.  (Bet you can't!).

 

Flame suit on! 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by westiemum
Clarity

[westiemum]

 

Mia chowing down on her salmon head yesterday morning - the only downside is her 'fishy' breath! LOL!

Edited May 16, 2021 by westiemum
Edit

[westiemum]

 

And Andy who is 15 or 16 years old roughly and his salmon head breakfast - licking his lips. He's been raw fed since January 2009, when he came out of a notorious puppy farm, aged somewhere between 2 and 4.

Edited May 16, 2021 by westiemum
Sp

[Georgial]

Hi there,

I have a 7yo working line Shepherd who had quite extensive skin issues when I got him as a rehome. My first thought was diet. I quickly got him off chicken/ chicken by-products/ poultry meal as well as beef. I also eliminated any carbohydrate- rice, potato, plus egg and anything dairy. I researched dry food carefully and found one with the main ingredient being fish and lamb with no poultry meal or carbs. I mix about 1 cup of kibble with the rest of his dinner made up of any combination of fresh lamb, sardines, lamb liver, salmon skin, white fish, pork, Turkey wings, duck feet etc.. I chop and change the raw meats, and add broccoli & grated zucchini. The meat is human grade, and you will find offal fairly cheap at most markets. The only other thing I did in combination with the dietary change is treat him for mites. While a skin scraping did not show them, the vet said they aren't always apparent on a skin scraping. Some dogs are prone to mite issues, they live naturally in small numbers on the dogs but can proliferate in times of stress, causing intense itching and fur loss, esp around the eyes, nose and up the legs. These areas then become infected and weepy. Since I have changed his diet and treated for mites, his fur has grown back and he looks like a different dog. I would have zero faith in a vet who was simply treating the symptoms (cortisone etc) and doing nothing overly useful in terms of figuring out the cause. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Georgial
Clarity

[Minkas mum]

On 21/04/2021 at 12:31 PM, Powerlegs said:

Yes, I own an Apoquel dog who still scratches if she gets into long wet grass. I have to wash her legs/feet.
Obv pred worked. We didn't skip any options. She tried Telfast and Phenergan. Exclusion diets. Liquid Cyclosporine. Cytopoint shots. Omega supplements. Everything.

Oh, and no oatmeal based shampoo.

She's the only dog I've had who was a genuine battle and despite the fact I don't like the idea of forever it's what's best for her. If the Apoquel hadn't worked she'd have been off to the Uni dermatologist. Kicking myself; I should have gone straight to them in the first place but what's done is done.  

Anyone in the same position, I'd say straight out from experience - save money and time and itches by going straight to the specialist. 

 

 

Can you tell me about the dermatologist and/or specialist? I have a dog that is not responding to ANY treatment. 

[Minkas mum]

On 14/05/2021 at 12:08 PM, westiemum said:

 

Snook is completely correct.  I worked at a Vet School for a while a few years back.  Sadly vets have one or two, one-hour lectures on canine nutrition in their six years of training and its usually a pet food representative who delivers the lecture.  Go figure.  Its the same problem as GPs and drug reps. (Independent non-drug company funded studies clearly show drug reps have enormous influence on GP prescribing behaviour). So of course vets come away with the notion that industrially made carb heavy full of fillers dog pellets (I won't even call it food as in my mind its not) are fine for dogs.  But in actual fact they are made solely for commercial profits and for the convenience (IMO) of lazy owners who won't see through their BS. It's a very cunning strategy the dog pellet companies have run - make the highest profit pellets possible full of rubbish, then by controlling both the vets and the supply chain (pay for vet training, control the vets and their training - then they will strongly advocate their cheap nasty nutrition-less pellets for us and our dogs) - and they get happy and rich on the profits. And meanwhile chronic disease, allergies and itchiness in our dogs soars... (fact).  

 

I need to declare up front I'm a completely convinced raw feeder who won't let her dogs touch pellets, who believes we all get strung up and overthink dog feeding to a ridiculous point when as you say OP, they all thrived before the advent of commercial dog pellets and lived long healthy lives.  And funnily enough, like us they ate whole foods, not processed pellets.  I find it fascinating that the disease trajectories in dogs (and in us - increasing rates of obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc etc) are all on the rise since people started feeding (and eating the human equivalent), highly processed dog pellets with no moisture and full of fillers (cereals, grains, carbs, processed waste etc).

 

I find the best person to read and listen to is Dr Conor Brady an Irish animal nutritionist (not a vet) who has finally published his book called simply 'Feeding Dogs' (cheaper than one vet consult) and a page on Facebook called 'Dogs First Ireland'.  www.dogsfirst.ie.  OP if you do nothing else I suggest you have a read of the book and FB and then get on FB and ask him some questions.  He will also do (paid) online consults as well.

 

I've just started reading Conor's book and will always be a raw feeder. I look to balance my dogs food roughly without turning it into a major drama, as I think all this balance to the gram stuff is nonsense in the bigger picture (who balances their diet to such as degree?) and simply plays into the hands of the commercial dog pellet companies who sprout the 'whole food in a pellet' BS.  So here, my raw feeding is a bit of this and a bit of that, whatever is on special or available - seasonal eating with plenty of variety.  No 'Maccas for Dogs' here.  Here it's good healthy whole foods for my dogs - raw meat and fish from a raw supplier for dinner, chicken wings for breakfast, offal, chicken necks, turkey, WW cans of sardines and mackerel for when I forget to get their meat out of the freezer, pumpkin, carrot, swede (raw and cooked), and pure dehydrated liver (Australian made) and raw carrot and swede treats. RMBs for a good ol' weekend gnaw.  And my westies are thriving.  

 

Andy is 15/16 and he looks like he has years left in him yet, touch wood.    I find it easier now there are good raw suppliers popping up everywhere (there are some really good ones in Adelaide and the Adelaide Hills - Pete's Petfoods and Buddies Bites for a start). I buy human grade meats on special when I shop, ensure my westies are well hydrated and I sleep at night.   Found fresh salmon heads and tails at Buddies earlier in the week - and the westies thought they were marvellous - wonderful watching dogs chow down on raw food. - really tucking in and enjoying food as they should instead of becoming addicted to salt in pellets.  And neither of mine are itchy, have allergies or skin conditions that westies are notorious for.

 

Anyway you get my drift.  I know some will vehemently disagree - and you're welcome to.  Just would like you to produce the strong INDEPENDENTLY FUNDED research evidence that shows unequivocally that pellets enhance your dogs health and longevity.  (Bet you can't!).

 

Flame suit on! 

 

 

I have a dog with a terrible skin condition (don't know what's causing it yet) but there is so much conflicting information. I read that fish is a "heavy metal" and shouldn't be given but I also used to give sardines and tuna. What the?

[Minkas mum]

On 27/07/2021 at 12:58 PM, Georgial said:

Hi there,

I have a 7yo working line Shepherd who had quite extensive skin issues when I got him as a rehome. My first thought was diet. I quickly got him off chicken/ chicken by-products/ poultry meal as well as beef. I also eliminated any carbohydrate- rice, potato, plus egg and anything dairy. I researched dry food carefully and found one with the main ingredient being fish and lamb with no poultry meal or carbs. I mix about 1 cup of kibble with the rest of his dinner made up of any combination of fresh lamb, sardines, lamb liver, salmon skin, white fish, pork, Turkey wings, duck feet etc.. I chop and change the raw meats, and add broccoli & grated zucchini. The meat is human grade, and you will find offal fairly cheap at most markets. The only other thing I did in combination with the dietary change is treat him for mites. While a skin scraping did not show them, the vet said they aren't always apparent on a skin scraping. Some dogs are prone to mite issues, they live naturally in small numbers on the dogs but can proliferate in times of stress, causing intense itching and fur loss, esp around the eyes, nose and up the legs. These areas then become infected and weepy. Since I have changed his diet and treated for mites, his fur has grown back and he looks like a different dog. I would have zero faith in a vet who was simply treating the symptoms (cortisone etc) and doing nothing overly useful in terms of figuring out the cause. 

Wow, that's interesting. My dog has what looks like a mite infestation but nothing showed on the skin scrape.  I will go straight to Petstock and purchase the treatment! Fingers crossed!

[coneye]

I've found this really interesting reading about these problems ,  WHY , because i'm having all these same skin , scratching , inflamed ears  ect ect , problems with my dog , I ask myself why is it different now  has opposed to dogs for the last 40 years , and i keep coming up with the same answer ,, when i was a kid we had dogs , they were always healthy  and in good nick ,  but my parents always said  there the kids pets , both of themn were not paticulary fond of dogs and animals , so the rules were steadfast , there your dog  , YOU c lean up there mess or THEY GO , there dogs  they eat what we leave , we were poor i suppose   so alls they got was a spoonful of pal , chappie whatever , over the scraps   to give it taste  and that was it  , yet i cannot remenmber a dog we owned that did'nt live a long live and  ever had problems  that took them to the vet , and to be honest my dad would of rather spent  10 cents on a bullet than 10 dollars at a vet .

 

Fast forward i got married we still had dogs  , i and my wife are dog lovers ,  but 40 plus years  later  . all our dogs lived to a far  far  more life expectency than what they were supposed to , and NOT ONE  of our ogs has cost us much at the vets , all of them were not fed  speciel diets  they were all fed  meat ,  bit of kibble tin of pal , lots of scraps ,  all of them were fed what we has a familly did'nt finish , all of them  topped up by supermarket kibble  , for when there were no left overs , quite often  a spoonful of tinned meat to  give them the taste , and ALL OF THEM have lived long lifes and very very rarely at the vets

 

Now present day , first little dog ,  first dog i've ever spent the money  on in regards money is;nt the object , i buy whatever he needs  i buy whatever i read is the best , I've spent THOUSANDS  trying to clear ear infections , and he still licks ,m still seems in distress           ,  so i said to my wife NO MORE  , stuff the expensive 150 dollars a bag of kibble , stuff everything i read ,   , for his ears about a month ago i  said give him ear , (scuse the pun ) and i  swabbed his ears with Cider vinigar , i stopped buying expensive kibble , and buy a small bag has a filler , the rest of the time he gets scraps  ,  meat , chicken , basicly what we eat , times like tonight theres no left overs so he gets kibble  and  a couple of spoon fuls of  pal to taste , ,      also he gets bones ,  i have started treating him like  what he is A DOG  back to basics  and guess what , his coats shiny , his nose is wet , he's running up and down the hallway , with his toy in his mouth growling and snarling , jumping on the furniture and  behaving like a pup ,  he's actually become once again a healthy dog