VIC - Breeder doesn’t allow to view parents cause of quarantine

[stan255]

I’m looking to bring a puppy into our family. I found this breeder who has a litter due in 6 weeks. When I got in contact with him, I asked if I could come over to see the parents. He said that’s not possible because of a quarantine. (Hmm..?)

 

He also said when the puppy is due he will send photos.

 

He is living on a farm and is a registered breeder.

 

This is my first time buying a pup and something doesn’t sound right here because I don’t think there’s any quarantines in place in Victoria.

 

The main goal for me here is:

1.  Confirm that the puppy is a purebred. Will a pedigree paper do?

2. Check if the parents are healthy and there won’t be any hereditary issue with the pup.

 

Thoughts?

[tdierikx]

Hmmm... it sounds a little hinky to me... due in 6 weeks? Dogs have a gestation of roughly 9 weeks, and I'm pretty sure it must be at least 4 weeks along before one can tell for sure if there are actually pups growing in there. At 3 weeks gestation, it would be nigh on impossible to tell exactly how many pups, nor to tell whether the bitch will carry to term. I wouldn't be handing over any money, that's for sure!

 

If you are getting a vibe about this breeder, trust your gut and run a mile...

 

T.

[jemappelle]

If he is on a farm there could be biosecurity concerns about letting people on to the property.  And did you check this person is registered with Dogs Vic or the relevant authority.  Some people thing they are registered breeders because they are registered with Council.

[stan255]

2 hours ago, tdierikx said:

Hmmm... it sounds a little hinky to me... due in 6 weeks? Dogs have a gestation of roughly 9 weeks, and I'm pretty sure it must be at least 4 weeks along before one can tell for sure if there are actually pups growing in there. At 3 weeks gestation, it would be nigh on impossible to tell exactly how many pups, nor to tell whether the bitch will carry to term. I wouldn't be handing over any money, that's for sure!

 

If you are getting a vibe about this breeder, trust your gut and run a mile...

 

T.

He did an ultrasound. That’s how he was able to give me a date estimate.

 

He doesn’t have a waiting list and didn’t take deposits so that’s a good sign!

 

My gut is a 50/50 because there might be a valid reason for not allowing us to visit the farm. But mainly because he was recommended by another breeder which I believe breeds for quality because she told me about her process and procedures.

 

33 minutes ago, jemappelle said:

If he is on a farm there could be biosecurity concerns about letting people on to the property.  And did you check this person is registered with Dogs Vic or the relevant authority.  Some people thing they are registered breeders because they are registered with Council.

This is my first time hearing about this. I thought it would be COVID-related but we’re in VIC and we are free to roam around eventhough a nursing home!

 

Yes, he is a registered with Dogs VIC. But from what I’ve read being registered doesn’t tell you the puppies are purebred and the parents are healthy and health is the main concern for me hence me wanting to visit the parents.

[Rebanne]

Ok. Take a breath. Lots of breeders won't let you visit until picking up the pup. Quarantine does not necessarily mean Covid. More likely to mean parvo. Many dogs are DNA tested for both purity and health issues. Ask if your potential pups parents are and if you can see the results. As for if the pups are actually purebred, well, I don't know where you are reading that but 99.9% are. There might be the odd case, very rare, that they are not and being passed off as pure but really? You can ask to see Mum when getting the pup but Dad might not even live there or even be alive. And just seeing a parent, unless they are obviously sick, you won't be able to tell if they have anything wrong that may have been passed on. 

Best you talk to your breeder about your thoughts and worries. Trust is a two way street.

[Rebanne]

3 hours ago, tdierikx said:

Hmmm... it sounds a little hinky to me... due in 6 weeks? Dogs have a gestation of roughly 9 weeks, and I'm pretty sure it must be at least 4 weeks along before one can tell for sure if there are actually pups growing in there. At 3 weeks gestation, it would be nigh on impossible to tell exactly how many pups, nor to tell whether the bitch will carry to term. I wouldn't be handing over any money, that's for sure!

 

If you are getting a vibe about this breeder, trust your gut and run a mile...

 

T.

You are wrong. Ultrasounds can pick up from around 3 weeks depending on the machine and the user. OP never mentioned they were asked to pay a deposit

[persephone]

if he is on a farm there could be a number of reasons for a quarantine - either a plant or farm animal disease/parasite . Nothing to do with covid, but vitally important to the security and income of a farmer! All sorts of nasties can be carried on car tyres/shoes etc .  

You visiting before pups are on the ground is not usual practice - and is NO way to check if parents are carrying some genetic disease  which may be passed on to a puppy, anyhow. 
the only thing you can do is research the breed, and ask politely  if tests" A,B,C" have been done to check for diseases ..and also ask to see the results of said tests . 

I would also be googling the "kennel/breeder " name and seeing what other dogs of theirs are out there 

Edited April 15, 2021 by persephone

[Tassie]

From all that the OP has said, it sounds OK .. recommendation by another breeder who has quality pups, is a definite plus.  As is no mention of deposits.

 

My advice would be just to thank the breeder, explaining that you are new to the process of getting a purebred pup, and you are ot sure what's normal.

It is possible for pups to be present on a scan, but then be resorbed by the bitch, so many breeders are very cautious until it;s clear that all s going well with the pregnancy.   Then spend your time while you're waiting, reading up on the health and any other issues with the breed, so that once pups are on the ground, you will be able to ask more relevant questions, and have more understanding of what information the breeder may be able to give you.  FInd out what testing of parents for genetic problems, and xrays of hips, elbows etc are normally done for your chosen breed.  Some inherited problems can be avoided by careful testing .. others, like hip dysplasia, are not so simple .. the risk can be lowered by careful breeding, but not eliminated entirely, and they also have an environmental component, so that the new puppy owners have responsibility there as well.  The more you know about  your chosen breed, the better.

[_PL_]

Don't stress. He may have the most sanitary setup and vaccinations all done but there's no way that can protect babies from every virus, bacterial or parasitic nasty that you could have on your shoes or clothes or vehicle. They are such delicate little things.
We've only had a limited number of litters and neonates, it's not like you have to cotton-wool them but I'd actually be very understanding and a bit pleased that the breeder is refusing visitors. 
 

Human handling on the other hand is vital in my opinion (I'm not a breeder btw so not an expert!), a lot of breeders bring their mum&bubs inside so they get used to household environments and human company. Develop an honest and working relationship with your breeder and that way you will feel comfortable calling them anytime after you take your puppy home. If there's something you want to know just ask.    And listen.
 

[stan255]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Ok. Take a breath. Lots of breeders won't let you visit until picking up the pup. Quarantine does not necessarily mean Covid. More likely to mean parvo. Many dogs are DNA tested for both purity and health issues. Ask if your potential pups parents are and if you can see the results. As for if the pups are actually purebred, well, I don't know where you are reading that but 99.9% are. There might be the odd case, very rare, that they are not and being passed off as pure but really? You can ask to see Mum when getting the pup but Dad might not even live there or even be alive. And just seeing a parent, unless they are obviously sick, you won't be able to tell if they have anything wrong that may have been passed on. 

Best you talk to your breeder about your thoughts and worries. Trust is a two way street.

I thought it was common practice (before or after birth) to visit the parents based on most of the posts I’ve read. Most of them saying “If you can’t visit the parents, beware”. 
 

Thanks for the advice!

 

4 hours ago, persephone said:

if he is on a farm there could be a number of reasons for a quarantine - either a plant or farm animal disease/parasite . Nothing to do with covid, but vitally important to the security and income of a farmer! All sorts of nasties can be carried on car tyres/shoes etc .  

You visiting before pups are on the ground is not usual practice - and is NO way to check if parents are carrying some genetic disease  which may be passed on to a puppy, anyhow. 
the only thing you can do is research the breed, and ask politely  if tests" A,B,C" have been done to check for diseases ..and also ask to see the results of said tests . 

I would also be googling the "kennel/breeder " name and seeing what other dogs of theirs are out there 

Yeah, that’s understandable or he could be trying to hide something (sanitary condition, number of breeds he is breeding, etc) which I don’t think he is.

I thought it was common practice to see the parents before birth. Thanks for pointing that out that it’s not common practice.

 

Based on my interpretation and the number of posts recommending to see the parents, I thought that was common practice.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

 

 

[stan255]

23 minutes ago, Tassie said:

From all that the OP has said, it sounds OK .. recommendation by another breeder who has quality pups, is a definite plus.  As is no mention of deposits.

 

My advice would be just to thank the breeder, explaining that you are new to the process of getting a purebred pup, and you are ot sure what's normal.

It is possible for pups to be present on a scan, but then be resorbed by the bitch, so many breeders are very cautious until it;s clear that all s going well with the pregnancy.   Then spend your time while you're waiting, reading up on the health and any other issues with the breed, so that once pups are on the ground, you will be able to ask more relevant questions, and have more understanding of what information the breeder may be able to give you.  FInd out what testing of parents for genetic problems, and xrays of hips, elbows etc are normally done for your chosen breed.  Some inherited problems can be avoided by careful testing .. others, like hip dysplasia, are not so simple .. the risk can be lowered by careful breeding, but not eliminated entirely, and they also have an environmental component, so that the new puppy owners have responsibility there as well.  The more you know about  your chosen breed, the better.

Thanks for the advice!

 

Is it common for breeders to test the parents for health problems or is it something only the top breeders do?

 

21 minutes ago, Powerlegs said:

Don't stress. He may have the most sanitary setup and vaccinations all done but there's no way that can protect babies from every virus, bacterial or parasitic nasty that you could have on your shoes or clothes or vehicle. They are such delicate little things.
We've only had a limited number of litters and neonates, it's not like you have to cotton-wool them but I'd actually be very understanding and a bit pleased that the breeder is refusing visitors. 
 

Human handling on the other hand is vital in my opinion (I'm not a breeder btw so not an expert!), a lot of breeders bring their mum&bubs inside so they get used to household environments and human company. Develop an honest and working relationship with your breeder and that way you will feel comfortable calling them anytime after you take your puppy home. If there's something you want to know just ask.    And listen.
 

Thanks for the advice! I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt because he’s recommended by a breeder I respect.

[persephone]

29 minutes ago, stan255 said:

Is it common for breeders to test the parents for health problems

It is a common practice . Some of the less reputable breeders don't - but any breeder SHOULD . If no one did, many breeds would become sickly and probably die out because of illness/deformities.

 

 

43 minutes ago, stan255 said:

Based on my interpretation and the number of posts recommending to see the parents, I thought that was common practice.

many, many people buy pedigreed puppies from country/interstate breeders without ever seeing a parent . The pedigree/health test results and breeder's reputation  should all be above reproach , allowing for a confident buying agreement . 
Research/striking a relationship with the breeder is important. Find out as much as you can ! if the breed is a herding breed, for example - Do any of the dogsin the pedigree lines  work? Do they show? Is the breeder happy with the temperament generally? When pup is born ....then starts eating , ask about diet , and worming - get the name of whatever food is being fed - number of meals etc .....
 

[Rebanne]

I think you will find most posts saying to see the parents early on are from pet pages. And while it is not bad advice not many breeders allow it. Biosecurity is one reason. Theft of puppies or other dogs are another reason. My last litter I asked to see drivers licences, even of the people interstate. I googled earth their home addresses. Even sending copies of health results can result in those papers being forged and used in scams. The world is not such an innocent place nowadays. I would hate to be a breeder of one of the more popular breeds. Most breeders shed buckets of blood, sweat and tears, not to mention money, over each and every litter. They want the best homes for their pups. They want to like the new owners and have an open relationship. They want to be there. 

[sheena]

Ask for the pedigree names of the mum & dad & also what the breeders Kennel name is & do some research.  When I have bought pups the breeders have sent me the full pedigree details of the mum & dad

[sandgrubber]

No one can absolutely guarantee there will be no hereditary health issues with a pup.  You should read up on the breed and find what health problems are worries, and what testing is recommended for the breed.  Ask if side and dam are tested and get their test results. Ask about longevity in the bloodline.

There are many health problems, including some with a genetic component, for which there are no tests (allergies, cancer, epilepsy, bloat, to name a few), and some tests that don't rule out health problems in the pups (hip and elbow scoring, some of the things checked in annual eye testing).

[Dogsfevr]

First off until pups are born,survived and there are enough to go around the breeder isn’t committing to a pup I would say 

We dont have people just turn up to look at parents either .

 

When we do it’s after we have had a certain amount off conversation that the people are on the right page as potential owners  and we have said yes to being on the list 

Why because some who come out are time wasters ,some think they can bring the kids out for a dog play date ,some people case out the joint .

In this case they have a bitch whose yet to whelp so they may be very mindful off people bringing issues to the property .

If parvo has been in the area then understandably the bitch is more important.

For example we do the first meet n greet out the front .

We have to protect ourselves and the dogs first off .

We have nothing to hide but more to protect .

Put yourself in the same shoes and think off strangers turning up to your home for a sticky beak and looking at things .

 

If the breed requires health tests the person can absolutely share the results or tell you the status and whether pups will be genetically clear by parentage for certain breed issues ,you will know what issues in the research you have already done so should be able to ask the questions there .

As mentioned by others the sire may not be owned by them so not available for viewing .

The dam again should be unless a tragedy occurs after whelping and some bitches don’t like every Tom,Dick and Harry looking at there brew ,managing a bitch and her pups is very careful ,some love the world some mothers are very protective.

 

Aand yes some breeders have certainly being very mindful off covid .

 

If you don’t feel there the right fit for you then look elsewhere