Reverse sneezing appearing after nose bleed

[giraffez]

4 hours ago, SchnauzerMax said:

I’m so sorry. I was hoping for a foreign body. Have you talked about chemo options? You would probably need to talk to a vet oncologist. I don’t know if it is a suitable option for your boy but if it is, it can stop it getting bigger, at least for a while. 

 

Thank you all.  
 

I haven’t had the discussions with the oncologist yet but after googling and seeing what radiation involves, it’s not something I think i will be considering.  The thought of having to put him under 10 to 20 times during a short period of time to do the treatment sounds more like suffering in my head than making him better.  Not discounting the fact that radiation has its own side effects and complications.  And even if treatment works, it only buys at most - a year?   Given his unexpected head tumour find adds a double whammy to this so his chances really are not good.  

If I’m going to be trying to extend his life, I want to be doing it for his benefit, not for me.   At this point my priority is to make him as comfortable as possible.  He isn’t showing signs of distress yet, just an annoying bleeding nose.
 

Is there such thing as palliative care specialist at hospitals or is the vet it?

[Kazm]

I’m really sad to hear your news. Wish it had been a foreign body or something fixable. 10 is too young. I’ve lost a dog (schnauzer) at 10 and 9 and it worries me a lot. Molly is 9 and a half and I watch her closely for any “signs”. 
Just continue having good times with your boy and keep him happy. My thoughts are with you.

[Rascalmyshadow]

I’m sorry to hear your boys diagnosis sounds very similar to how we lost our girl, my only advise is try and enjoy every day possible with him, take lots of photos and do as many fun things as you can.

 

[Tassie]

So sorry it's  not good news.   Like the others, I remember your boy as a pup.    They're never with us for long enough, but he is lucky that he has a human who will make choices to keep him comfortable.   As far as palliative care goes, assuming you have a good relationship with your vet, your vet will help you with your choices.   Another possible avenue is a vet who also practises complementary and Traditional Chinese medicine.   They can have a range of options for keeping  animals comfortable which traditional vets may not have.   IMO though, it's really important to have a good trusting relationship with your vet.   (I was lucky with Kirra's lymphoma to have both kinds of vet .. each one knowing that I was seeing the other.. they are both lovely tolerant caring people. .. my ;normal' vet just rolls his eye gently at some of the TCM preparations. but as long as they don't harn  the dog, he goes along with it.)

 

And in some ways, having some time to prepare for the worst, makes it just a little easier when the time comes.   DOLers are here for yoy.

 

[Deeds]

I don't know whereabouts you are in NSW but you could try All Natural Vet at Five Dock, Sydney.  They do Chinese Medicine plus Alternative therapies for dogs with cancer.

 

I have used them several times for my dogs over the years.  They also do phone consults.  https://www.allnaturalvetcare.com/our-services

 

I'm very sorry to hear about your dog.

[Papillon Kisses]

I’m sorry to read this news.

 

There are indeed vets with a special interest in palliative care. I don’t know if it’s a specialty. Sydney Animal Pain Clinic have many cancer patients. (I have no personal experience with them, I just know they exist). The specialty with that one is anaesthesia and critical care - these vets often do chronic pain.

 

I think I would talk to an oncologist anyway. When a friend’s dog had cancer she elected not to do any in-hospital treatment due to her dog being anxious, but there was an at-home treatment targeted at improving QOL and increasing time if possible. I think it was a type of chemotherapy. All it involved was carefully giving a tablet while wearing gloves, and taking urine samples for some reason.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Papillon Kisses

[giraffez]

My boy has been doing better after recovering from the scoping.  Sneezing is uncontrollable when it happens but he doesn't have many episodes of it.  And the nose bleed hasn't come back - its on the mucous but nose does not have fresh blood.  The vet now has him on Meloxicam.  Has anyone used this drug before?  I started him on his first dose tonight.  I'm a bit nervous of the side effects and given its the long weekend, hard to get to a vet that is open if he has a reaction to it.  Its got a giant sticker on it that says stop immediately if vommiting or diarrhea.

 

He has used metacam before for a short period of time and he was okay on it.  Is it the same thing?

[Dogsfevr]

My boy has been on meloxicam for 6 months .

Had another on it for 2 years it’s my preferred go to pain meds as reaction seems to be small compared to other choices .

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

Metacam and Meloxicam as others have said are the same but Meloxicam is usually cheaper.

We had our girl on Meloxicam also, she was with us for about 18 months after diagnosis and didn’t have any adverse reactions, our little chi x Pom had an autoimmune condition and was also on Meloxicam for about 2 years before he started to have a bad reaction to it.

[giraffez]

Thanks everyone.  The vet also said this may also lessen the sneezing and minimise the nose bleed.  But I can't find any literature online that suggests it has this effect.  Does anyone know whether this is true?

 

My boy doesn't seem to be in any pain (in fact i stopped the paracetamol that was given to him after the scoping).  Meloxicam seems to be a pain killer which he at the moment doesn't need, but it was prescribe to slow down the tumour.  It is interesting that this medication that is typically used to treat arthritis in dogs is used for tumours.

[Rebanne]

Meloxicam is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory. So treats pain and inflammation. I would think it's been prescribed mainly for the anti-inflammatory relief at the moment. I've had it prescribed for myself for that very reason.

[teddybeans]

Metacam and meloxicam smells a bit different, how are they the same meds?

 

metacam has a strong stinky smell

Edited April 2, 2021 by teddybeans

[giraffez]

How long before I know if my boy has bad reaction to the medication.  He has been on it for three nights already and he seems okay.  But today I notice the poo in the yard is a bit runnier than usual.  I’m not sure whether it’s because he had a big pork bone yesterday or whether the poo is his (I have another dog).  
 

it’s certainly no diarrhea yet but runny poo is not a good sign. 
 

Given meloxicam is a non steroid medication, does it have contradictions with other meds?  I’m currently applying a steroid cream on my boys itchy spots on his body.  That’s topical and not taken orally, is that okay?  And how about antihistamine and gaberpetin ?  Thanks

Edited April 4, 2021 by giraffez

[Rebanne]

42 minutes ago, giraffez said:

 

 

Given meloxicam is a non steroid medication, does it have contradictions with other meds?  I’m currently applying a steroid cream on my boys itchy spots on his body.  That’s topical and not taken orally, is that okay?  And how about antihistamine and gaberpetin ?  Thanks

You really need to ask these questions of your vet.

Pork, if not fed regularly, can give a dog runny poops.

[giraffez]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

You really need to ask these questions of your vet.

Pork, if not fed regularly, can give a dog runny poops.

Yeah I got the meds in such a rush before the long weekend I didn’t really think at that point.  I wanted him to have medication for the weekend so quickly picked them up before closing time.  They are closed until Tuesday so have to wait till then I guess

[giraffez]

Thanks, will check in with vet on Tuesday.  I bathed him in maleseb today after seeing rave reviews with people having great success with itchy skin where nothing else has worked but maleseb.  He seems to be itchier than before the bath so I’m going to say that hasn’t worked for him.

 

They have a big pork bone every weekend since they were little.  I’ve trimmed off all the fat so it’s just meat and bone.  I stopped it for a few weeks when he was having the nose bleed and only restarted it this week seeing he is a bit better.  Normally I don’t see runny poo after the bone but because I stopped it for a few weeks it may have caused a bit of an upset?  Or it could be the meloxicam - I hope it isnt.  Will keep a close eye on the poo the next few days.

Edited April 4, 2021 by giraffez

[Boronia]

There is some info on anti itch stuff here Albert Park Vet info

this is a paragraph within that link (with Telfast it's a no-no to use ketoconazole which is an ingredient of Malaseb):

 

OVER-THE-COUNTER ALLERGY DRUGS

You can use over-the-counter antihistamines for your dog's allergies. They can be really quite helpful in some dogs, but they're really unlikely to control an acute or severe flare up. They're often most be useful if started before the time of the year that your dog has a flare up, they then might decrease the need for other medication.

There are two basic categories of antihistamines:

    the older (first generation) ones, which tend to cause drowsiness (in people more than pets) and have a shorter duration of action (but are usually very inexpensive)
    the new (second generation) ones, which cause less sedation and are more anti-inflammatory (but relatively more expensive)

Both sorts can be used safely in dogs, but because people don't always want to be sedated, the second generation ones tend to be the ones on the supermarket and pharmacy shelves.

Here are some antihistamine dosages for dogs:

    dexchlorpheniramine (Polaramine®) – this is a first gen. It is available as 2 or 6 mg tablets. The dose is one 2 mg 2–4 times a day for dogs under 15 kg and one 6 mg tablet 2–4 times a day for dogs over 15 kg

    promethazine (Pherergan®) – this is also a first gen. It is available as 10 and 25 mg tablets and 5 mg/ml elixir. The dose is 1 mg/kg twice daily

    fexofenadine (Telfast®) – this is a second gen. It is available as 60 mg capsules and 120 or 180 mg tablets. The dose is 5–10 mg/kg once or twice daily (don't use if your dog is on ketoconazole or a macrolide antibiotic)

    loratadine (Claratyne®) – also second gen. It is available as 10 mg tablets. The dose is 5–20 mg/dog once daily

    cetirizine (Zyrtec®) – also second gen. It is available as 10 mg tablets and either 1 mg/ml or 10 mg/ml oral solution. The dosage is 5–20 mg/dog once daily

[giraffez]

Thanks for that.  I called the vet today and they gave me the all clear to take the medications.
 

His itching seemed to have settled down and we haven’t noticed any runny poo except the one off on the day he had the big bone.  He has been doing quite well since recovering from the scoping.  I hardly see him sneeze anymore and as a result no mucous discharge or bleeding nose.  He does get the occasional reverse sneeze but that’s still not a frequent occurrence.   
 

I can only hope he stays this way, I’ll be happy.  Thank you everyone for the kind thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Odin-Genie]

On 25/03/2021 at 4:59 AM, giraffez said:

Thank you all.  
 

I haven’t had the discussions with the oncologist yet but after googling and seeing what radiation involves, it’s not something I think i will be considering.  The thought of having to put him under 10 to 20 times during a short period of time to do the treatment sounds more like suffering in my head than making him better.  Not discounting the fact that radiation has its own side effects and complications.  And even if treatment works, it only buys at most - a year?   Given his unexpected head tumour find adds a double whammy to this so his chances really are not good.  

If I’m going to be trying to extend his life, I want to be doing it for his benefit, not for me.   At this point my priority is to make him as comfortable as possible.  He isn’t showing signs of distress yet, just an annoying bleeding nose.
 

Is there such thing as palliative care specialist at hospitals or is the vet it?

Hi Giraffez,

Our 13 year old Golden Retriever was diagnosed with nasal adenocarcinoma last year in January after nosebleeds and reverse sneezing. The regular vets recommended palliative care since she was already 12 then, and they gave her about two months since the cancer is highly aggressive.

We did extensive research and contacted David Lurie at ARH who is an oncologist specialising in stereotactic radiation therapy. This is a very focused radiation therapy with just three treatments. Our beautiful Genie completed her radiation therapy with almost almost zero side effects. She had to have soft food for a month since her palate was a bit inflamed. But her appetite and energy levels were great.

She then did chemotherapy, again without any side effects, and she completed a second round of stereotactic radiation this year in January, again with no discernible side effects except for some fur loss on her face. She is happy, full of energy. She still gets nosebleeds, but that’s about the only issue.
So, if you do want to consider treatment, don’t go by Google. People usually post when things go wrong. All the best.

[giraffez]

10 hours ago, Odin-Genie said:

Our 13 year old Golden Retriever was diagnosed with nasal adenocarcinoma last year in January after nosebleeds and reverse sneezing. The regular vets recommended palliative care since she was already 12 then, and they gave her about two months since the cancer is highly aggressive.

Wow thats fantastic!  I mean how great she is doing!!  Thanks for letting me know.