Reverse sneezing appearing after nose bleed

[giraffez]

My 10 year old schnuazer started reverse sneezing earlier this year.  It lasts about 5 secs and has an episode about once a day a few times a week.  Saw the vet and he says nothing to really be concerned about.  Recently he began sneezing (normal sneezing) a lot in the mornings,  consecutive sneezes, no discharge.  I just thought it was allergies because he has also been scratching.  But last week,  I noticed a slight nose bleed in one of the nostrils, its not a heavy bleed and it doesn't drip onto the floor.  The blood is faint (like there is a bit of mucus with it ) and not dark red on the tissue.  So off to the vet we went.  

 

Vet gave him a strong dose of cortizone and gave him some doxycycline (anti biotics).  In about 2 hours, the bleed dissapeared and his nose looks back to normal.  But I noticed his reverse sneezing got worst although normal sneezing went away.  He started having several reverse sneezes consecutively and its for a longer duration maybe 10-20 seconds.  And it comes and goes.  Its more frequent in the mornings, then nothing in the afternoon and night.  I also put him on antihistamine on advice of vet at noon so I'm not sure whether the medication is working and doing its thing from noon onwards and then begins to wear out by the morning.  Vet says its rather odd that the reverse sneezing is happening after the nose bleed stopped.    His reverse sneezing has improved today, in that its shorter and not as long but it's still happening consecutively.

 

Has anyone have any experience with nose bleed and seeing reverse sneezing like this happen?  It may be inevitable that he needs to be scoped through the nose, I'm trying to make that the last option.  He is eating and energy levels are well.  

[Rebanne]

If you think the antihistamine is working give it to him in the evening. Reverse sneezing is quite common in my breed though none of mine are currently doing it. One of my dogs did have a blood nose once to the point of dripping onto the floor. Blood mixed with mucous. Vet was concerned that it might be a fungal thing but after a course of antibiotics it went away never to reappear. It's possible you have two different things going on. Personally if the blood nose continues I'd ask the vet about treating for a fungal infection first. Scope would be next.

[giraffez]

5 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Personally if the blood nose continues I'd ask the vet about treating for a fungal infection first.

He is on antibiotics already so it would have treated fungal infection if it is that.  The bleeding has stopped so it is probably allergies.  Just the reverse sneezing is a bit of a concern at the moment because the attacks are frequent when they happen.  But most of the day he is fine.

[Dogsfevr]

Is this the same dog that had teeth removed.

Otherwise I would be worried and want further investigation.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Dogsfevr

[Boronia]

I thought antibiotics do not treat fungal infections but, in fact, may cause fungal infections but on having a little look on Dr Google i see a few snippets of info like this:

Common antibiotics include dicloxacillin, erythromycin, and tetracycline. Antifungal agents:

Oral antifungal drugs include fluconazole and itraconazole

Saffy was on one of the 'conazole' drugs but that didn't help as she didn't have a fungal infection in her sinus'

I hope you get to the bottom of you dog's problem giraffz

[Rebanne]

15 hours ago, giraffez said:

He is on antibiotics already so it would have treated fungal infection if it is that. 

Um no. Fungal infections are different to bacterial infections and require different meds.

[giraffez]

On 07/03/2021 at 1:02 AM, Dogsfevr said:

Is this the same dog that had teeth removed

No, this is the my other boy. 

 

He has gone through a 7 day course of antibiotics and towards the end of the course, the reverse sneezing and normal sneezing both subsided.  I haven't seen him reversed sneezed for about 4-5 days now, he has the occasional normal sneeze but nothing I was alarmed about. 

 

But the  sneezing has just started to become more frequent today.  Not a good sign

 

The reverse sneezing is a bit of a mystery.  Before the nose bleed, it was like once a day a few times a week.  The day after the injection of cortizone and the antibiotics, it changed and became more frequent and longer in duration... All these episodes were in the morning.  And then it disappeared completely towards the end of the course of antibiotics. 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by giraffez

[Rascalmyshadow]

I would go and have him scoped, we had a very similar thing happen with our previous chi, spent months treating for so called allergies/infections but she had a nasal tumour which was very high up and ended up spreading to her brain, we lost her at 5 years old.

I personally wouldn’t be mucking around, hoping it is nothing serious.

[SchnauzerMax]

3 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

I would go and have him scoped, we had a very similar thing happen with our previous chi, spent months treating for so called allergies/infections but she had a nasal tumour which was very high up and ended up spreading to her brain, we lost her at 5 years old.

I personally wouldn’t be mucking around, hoping it is nothing serious.

I too would have him scoped. A friend’s cat had similar symptoms and after a lot of faffing around went for the invasive option which showed a tumour high up in the nasal bone which they operated on to remove. 
I too hope it is nothing awful but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get a definitive diagnosis so you treat it effectively. 

[Boronia]

It could also be nasal mites (my Daisy had this) If I remember correctly her vet treated her with Ivermectin

this from my Google search: The most common signs associated with nasal mite infestation include bleeding from the nose, sneezing, “reverse sneezing” (sniffing air rapidly inward), impaired ability to pick up scents, facial itching, nasal discharge, labored breathing, head shaking, and high-pitched, noisy breathing.

https://www.msdvetmanual.com/respiratory-system/respiratory-diseases-of-small-animals/canine-nasal-mites

[giraffez]

On 15/03/2021 at 12:30 AM, SchnauzerMax said:

I too would have him scoped. A friend’s cat had similar symptoms and after a lot of faffing around went for the invasive option which showed a tumour high up in the nasal bone which they operated on to remove. 
I too hope it is nothing awful but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get a definitive diagnosis so you treat it effectively. 

So  a nasal tumour easily treatable and has a good chance of survival?  Did they just remove it while he was under for the scope?

 

On 14/03/2021 at 8:35 PM, Rascalmyshadow said:

I would go and have him scoped, we had a very similar thing happen with our previous chi, spent months treating for so called allergies/infections but she had a nasal tumour which was very high up and ended up spreading to her brain, we lost her at 5 years old.

I personally wouldn’t be mucking around, hoping it is nothing serious.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Was it single sided (on one nostril) on you chi?  What were the symptoms you noticed besides the sneezing?  Were there any neurological changes?   

 

On 15/03/2021 at 6:30 AM, Boronia said:

It could also be nasal mites (my Daisy had this) If I remember correctly her vet treated her with Ivermectin

I don't think its nasal mites, the reason being is it is only on the one nostril.  If it was mites, I would expect it to be on both.

[SchnauzerMax]

1 hour ago, giraffez said:

So  a nasal tumour easily treatable and has a good chance of survival?  Did they just remove it while he was under for the scope?

 

...

They scoped first and then planned the subsequent operation. Survival rates are very dependant on tumour type and location. Kitty’s was high up in a difficult spot to get to, so vet removed as much as they could but could not get it all.  So greatly improved quality of life in the short term but it will eventually come back. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

It was only in one nostril, it started with a lot of normal sneezing and reverse sneezing, then came bleeding with the sneezing.

At first there were no neurological symptoms but as it progressed she became very reactive and would snap at the other animals and people, we made the decision to PTS when she wasn’t able to breath properly.

Unfortunately our girl was only 1.8kg with being so small it was hard enough for the vet to scope her (the smallest scope really wasn’t small enough)  even a tiny tumour in a dog that size is very problematic and too hard to remove.

[Papillon Kisses]

When Malcolm was at the internal med specialist recently he pointed out that one nostril is depigmented and has increased discharge. We’ve been told to watch out for sneezing and more noticeable discharge from that nostril as it could indicate a tumour, in which case they said we’d be looking at a skull X-ray. I didn’t comment previously as there was no mention of looking out for blood, but in light of the above comments I thought I would mention it.

[giraffez]

Thank you all, I'm sorry you had to go through that . 

 

If anything I hope its just a foreign body that is stuck and can't come out but itself.  He hasn't reversed sneezed for an entire week.  Just normal sneezing and even then its not frequent.  And when it happens its mainly in the morning for some reason.

 

I probably will need to send him in for scoping, let me give it another week and see how he does.  Right now he seems fine with the occasional normal sneeze.

[giraffez]

Had my boy scoped and CT scanned and they found a tumour.  I'm so sad.  Still waiting for biopsy results to come back to see what kind we are dealing with but by the sound of things, it doesn't seem to be operable due to location, so regardless whether its benign or not, its still a death sentence.  Hasn't spread to the brain yet but they also found a small tumour in the brain in the scan coincidentally.

 

There isn't really much we can do, radiation seems painful with the side effects.  I want to make him as comfortable as possible.  The prognosis doesn't sound too good.  Are there any medication that can control the nose bleed?  He had quite a frightening nose bleed the other night, the fact that it is now confirmed to be a tumour means we will probably be expecting more of this.

 

I am heart broken.  Not sure I can ever get another dog again knowing that one day I will have to let him/her go.

[persephone]

Oh, I am so sorry . Not the news you wanted, not at all.    

Older dogs often get tumours - the hard part is when they are in inaccessible areas   I doubt the vets have anything to stop the nosebleeds- but ask them if there is anything even that can lessen his anxiety   Nosebleeds are scary , and you will be constantly watching and worrying .
I am remembering back to when this boy was a baby , and you were learning - it seems we have fast-forwarded to now ! So many memories and experiences packed into those years for you....so much love, so many wet-nosed kisses.

[giraffez]

25 minutes ago, persephone said:

I am remembering back to when this boy was a baby , and you were learning - it seems we have fast-forwarded to now ! So many memories and experiences packed into those years for you....so much love, so many wet-nosed kisses.

Thank you.  Yes that was 10 years ago!  Can you believe it?  I learnt to groom him and take care of him and know the breed.  A lot of good times.  Too bad its coming to an end soon.  I'm feeling the pain already.  Hardest bit is I will probably be the one that has to make the call eventually.

[Rebanne]

So sorry to read this. 

[SchnauzerMax]

I’m so sorry. I was hoping for a foreign body. Have you talked about chemo options? You would probably need to talk to a vet oncologist. I don’t know if it is a suitable option for your boy but if it is, it can stop it getting bigger, at least for a while.