farmers v dog people

[asal]

  farmers v  dog people

 

I realise what im about to say is not going to make me any friends.  But look at the bright side, I was not game to ask publicly in 1979.  

 

I watched the demonising of “puppy farmers” from the inception of the extortion to eliminate puppy farmers from the ANKC ranks.

 

I wondered then at the choice of words.   A farmer would never continue to breed from a female “farm” animal, if she could not deliver naturally.

A farmer would never continue to breed from a female “farm” animal, if it had little to no maternal instincts.

A farmer would not continue the lines of any female lacking in the above.

 

Why?  Because  a FARMER knows very well that if a vet was not near to hand both she and her progeny could and probably will die otherwise.  

 

Why continue a line that cannot survive without veterinary intervention when the selection for self delivery and excellent mothering instincts ensure survival of both the mother and the progeny?

 

In the wild such faulty lines die out anyway.  A good farmer ensures the continuation of these genes.

 

What does the show scene breeders do without a thought to the future of any pup born of caesarean only lines and poor maternal instinct mothers?

 

 They pay the vet to save the puppies, hand feed when mum won’t or in some lines doesn’t even have enough milk to feed them.  One of my friends had generations of caesarean   only bitches.   Another handfed her Pom puppies from day 3 to 7 as her line did not produce milk after the first week.

 

Whatever happened to the mentality of the show breeders that they lost sight of selecting for two such important traits in any breed or species?

Then have the hide to brand anyone they want eliminated from the ANKC as puppy “farmers”. 

 

 What an insult to what a farmer really stands for.

 

Shows how far the show scene has strayed far from the parameters of what is held to be so important for the welfare and lives of the animals in the care of real farmers.

 

It did not take me long to realise, when I bought my first ANKC pup, did I want to breed sound, self whelping, high maternal instinct lines.

Or ignore what I knew was vitally important component of the genetics that never gets a mention in any of the dog breeds printed standard of excellence?

 

I admit there is one “farm” sector that does not worry about caesarean’s.

 The Belgium Blue, many studs the caesarean percentage is from 80 to 90 percent of calving’s.

 Due to the presence of the double muscling gene. 

 

 

This is part of the breed standard of purebred Murray Grey cattle, but same for just about every breed of cattle as ability to reproduce normally is considered as high a priority as conformation, unlike what has happened to so many dog breeds.

 

“Purebred (PB) Animals should be of the following standard. General appearance – All animals should be well balanced with length, width, spring of rib and smoothness. Undue deposits of fat must be avoided. Animals must have the ability to walk freely. Bulls should be masculine with breed character and capable of natural service and reproduction. Females should be feminine with breed character, prolific and able to rear their progeny”

 

 

A fact even as early as 1979 I realised the dog world had moved away from with little regard to the consequences.  

 

Leaving them wide open to the resulting disaster that finally saw the screening of “Pedigree Dogs Exposed.”

 

Little progress seems to have done towards addressing that problem.

 Instead, focussing on eliminating “puppy farmers” as if eliminating anyone so branded will clean up the reputation of the remaining membership.

 

As if that is going to deflect the real elephant in the room desperately needing to be addressed?

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by asal

[sandgrubber]

I sympathize and agree with your intent, but I don't specially like the farmer analog. Farmers generally care about reproductive capabilities, true, but generally they don't care much about longevity or morbidity in middle / old age, and breed to meet market demands. What I would call true puppy farmering, like the Amish puppy mills in the US, are likewise inclined, although they see $$ in number and cuteness of puppies instead of weight gain or milk yield. 

I may be wrong, but I suspect there are few, if any, true puppy farmers in Oz. 

As to ANKC tendencies, health testing, etc.... yes there are some snobs who think they are superior because they check some boxes concerning health tests, but do a poor job of breeding for overall health and temperament.  There are also many breeders who will remove a dog from their breeding program for reasons such as chronic skin problems, aggressive behavior, uneven temperament, or being slow on the draw when it comes to learning things expected in the breed. 

As for testing, I'd almost rather see several generations of good health and longevity than any formal tests of health.  The need for formal health testing is, in part, testimony to many generations of breeding pedigree dogs without due regard to health. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by sandgrubber
Further thoughts

[asal]

having grew up with farmers, their mentality I found is very different to  the dog world when I joined the ankc. Although the majority were wonderful people, I was surprised by even my best friends found nothing wrong with generations of ceasearan only mums.

 

 Long lived is certainly treasured in my favourite breed , Poll shorthorn.  20 to 27 is not unusual. one famous girl produced 25 calves without a miss .

We have a girl 30.  Daugher of our girl Four Ways Tonia, reserves champion at sydney royal 1981.  we had Tonia for 22 years. Suspect we lost her to snake bite.

 

 

one of my favourite heifers, I named her Rawhide after the Clint Eastwood series. remember they used to have such spectacular marked cattle in the rawhide tv series herd. although they were texas longhorns not poll shorthorns.  love the variety in shorthorns. we never have to "muster" ours. we just sing out "come on" and they came running to follow us.  this was taken at Brian Cromies where we agisted them until we bought our own place. Gee he couldn't believe his eyes when we first called them to follow us into the yards to tattoo the calves that day.

Edited January 31, 2021 by asal

[asal]

On 31/01/2021 at 5:55 AM, sandgrubber said:

I sympathize and agree with your intent, but I don't specially like the farmer analog. Farmers generally care about reproductive capabilities, true, but generally they don't care much about longevity or morbidity in middle / old age, and breed to meet market demands. What I would call true puppy farmering, like the Amish puppy mills in the US, are likewise inclined, although they see $$ in number and cuteness of puppies instead of weight gain or milk yield. 

I may be wrong, but I suspect there are few, if any, true puppy farmers in Oz. 

As to ANKC tendencies, health testing, etc.... yes there are some snobs who think they are superior because they check some boxes concerning health tests, but do a poor job of breeding for overall health and temperament.  There are also many breeders who will remove a dog from their breeding program for reasons such as chronic skin problems, aggressive behavior, uneven temperament, or being slow on the draw when it comes to learning things expected in the breed. 

As for testing, I'd almost rather see several generations of good health and longevity than any formal tests of health.  The need for formal health testing is, in part, testimony to many generations of breeding pedigree dogs without due regard to health. 

 I agree with some of your points certainly.

 

as for " The need for formal health testing is, in part, testimony to many generations of breeding pedigree dogs without due regard to health. " is a bit foolish.  PRA is recessive so you can have multiple generations over decades and never see it.   BUT, the day you or someone has a C pup that goes blind before old age or accident turns up is pretty distressing.  PLL affected go blind far earlier.   I know I thought the lines mine came from were free of both.  When the dna profiling became available. decided to get mine done to ensure what I believed was correct. Pretty amazed to discover half were B for PRA .   although fortunately all were clear for PLL.

 

Met a guy this weekend all his farm breds have gone blind young, he didnt even know it could be tested for.

 

 

I think you were correct, there are few commercial puppy farms, that is until the POCTA inspections were instituted,   now everyone inspected and passed is by definition a puppy farm.   

 

Which really is confusing.  If you are passed then you are now officially a puppy farm.   

 

The ankc membership is extorted to eliminate any and all puppy farms from being members..   So doomed if you dont pass as the inspectors can seize your dogs.   Dooms if you pass as your fellow members will be baying for your resignation or termination of your membership?

 

The other way to gain brownie points is to be a dead end kennel and only sell on limit register, Thus ensuring less and less available for the gene pool and no new members so shrinking the ankc membership.

 

Also Brownie points for selling your puppies for less than how much it cost to breed and raise them. thus ensuring only the independently wealthy can remain ankc to actually breed.

 

googling gumtree for example, even purebred  non ankc puppies are selling for more than even a main register ankc pup?  What staggers me is yes they are breeders registered with alternate registers. No they are not dna profiled.   Seems the only difference between the new registers is they dont hold shows?  

 

Its amazing to the oldies like me to see this happening?

 

I have no solutions,  I doubt the members will cease working to eliminate anyone accused of being a puppy farmer.   Its too entrenched now.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by asal