Discipline and puppies

[Rascalmyshadow]

I have noticed there is a trend among some people using very strong behaviour to discipline young puppies.

I seriously don’t understand this mentality, you bring a new baby into your home/life the most important thing is building a bond and trust, using some of these scare tactics does neither of these.

 

I feel it needs to be discussed since some advice being given out especially to anyone new to dogs could potentially cause there puppies to be fearful, untrusting, reactive and at worst fear biters.

 

I have specialised in grooming aggressive, fearful and biting dogs for the last 20 years and some of what is being suggested is down right scary.

If I handled these dogs in such a way I would have been bitten many times over.

 

 

[Rebanne]

if you are referring to the nipping puppy post then I have to say I agreed, or rather, I didn't take it the way some of you did, with leac1801. Some of you seemed to think they were suggesting hanging the pup by the collar. It is not how I took the post at all.

It's the only post I've read in months that could, vaguely, fit in with what you said Rascalmyshadow. Where are the other posts you are referring too?

[Dogsfevr]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

if you are referring to the nipping puppy post then I have to say I agreed, or rather, I didn't take it the way some of you did, with leac1801. Some of you seemed to think they were suggesting hanging the pup by the collar. It is not how I took the post at all.

It's the only post I've read in months that could, vaguely, fit in with what you said Rascalmyshadow. Where are the other posts you are referring too?

I commented because how high is too high,how long is too long to lift a puppy off the ground by its collar .

The method mentioned was inappropriate and you can’t compare apples with oranges even in neck structure and strength.

It wasn’t good advice 

[sandgrubber]

I agree, in general. Harsh punishment to a baby puppy for wound up behavior is like giving a human baby a belting for messing its diaper. 

[tdierikx]

My experience with lots of pups over the years is that each is different in how it will respond to different training methods... some need correction that isn't always 100% positive, and others respond really well to only the positive. There really is no one shoe fits all training method, it must be tailored to the individual.

 

That said, there is no place for extreme or harsh correction in a very young pup.

 

T.

[Little Gifts]

I owned a dog that I believe was harshly corrected during that second fear period as a pup. She was forever changed by it. Went from being independant and normal inquisitive puppy to being terrified of strangers, people she'd met but didn't live with and of leaving the house (the incident happened away from my home). A pup that would sleep on car rides became a leash chewer, crier and a vomiter if she went somewhere she'd never been to before. The change was extreme and life long. I believe the incident happened because she was scared/outside her comfort zone and being submissive and vocal. Instead of being comforted she was verbally chastised and threatened with punishment. That's all it took for her world to be changed.

 

Also my current girl Stussy was fine with getting her nails done until one incident. I wasn't with her and came back and she was panting and very stressed. She is a pretty easy going dog so they did something to scare her. Perhaps they clipped too close and when she struggled she was restrained rather than comforted and calmed down? I don't know but 10 years on and she remains terrified of having her nails cut.

 

I don't even understand the need for harsh punishment in an adult dog. What will that change after the event? The dog wont connect the dots. But why not set a dog up for success in the first place rather than punish for wrongs? Dogs love to please us but they are not mind readers. I think it is perfectly fine for a dog to express how they are feeling and since they don't speak words we have to interpret it through their barks, cries and behaviours. Why does a dog have to love everything we want them to? As long as there are no safety issues does it really matter if your dog hates say going to large dog friendly events? And why do we have to quash some of their natural instincts? You can't get a terrier breed and get upset if it wants to eat your free ranging chooks. Many of us make sacrifices to achieve a happy dog human life balance without having to resort to anything super restrictive or harsh.

[Dogsfevr]

3 hours ago, Little Gifts said:

 

Also my current girl Stussy was fine with getting her nails done until one incident. I wasn't with her and came back and she was panting and very stressed. She is a pretty easy going dog so they did something to scare her. Perhaps they clipped too close and when she struggled she was restrained rather than comforted and calmed down? I don't know but 10 years on and she remains terrified of having her nails cut.

 

 

Regarding this as a groomer we do dogs that where perfect toy fine and then flip a switch to hating it with no man handling .

Often owners have tried themselves .

Dogs with Thyroid issues are known for hating there nails being done .

Dogs in pain .

Nails is a tricky thing and oh how I wish every dog loved them being done 

[Little Gifts]

@Dogsfevr I am pretty sure something not very good happened practice wise. I'd never used them before - they were part of a large pet supplies store and I shopped while it was happening. They were really angry at her when I picked her up and my very happy and complaint dog was a mess. I asked what happened and they were really sketchy with any details. I don't like to blame people without really knowing (my dog is not an angel all the time!) but had to trust my intuition on this one. I just really feel something happened and was not handled well and because there had never been an issue for the years before I never even considered I needed to be more discerning in what groomer I used (nail cutting is not my thing so I've always paid someone as needed). After that I'd get them done by lovely vet nurses who know her until I found a great groomer. That groomer closed last year but I have found another. With all of them they let me hold and comfort her and we have a process of which foot gets done in what order and that helps reduce the level of anxiety she gets to. And unfortunately as she has gotten older her nails have become fast growing (she skip walks) so sometimes she needs them done once a month.

 

Finding the right groomer who worked around her needs was important - that experience has not put me off groomers - there are some amazing ones out there! But Stussy has a foot touching fear for life from that one incident. I can't even lightly stroke her paws and I certainly can't hold any scissor like items in my hand and go near her. She goes straight to panting and panicking. We did try to desensitise her with some exercises from our behaviouralist but we made no progress. There is no other part of her body that I can't poke and prod either. Just feet and nails. I guess it is around 10 years of the fear now.

[Papillon Kisses]

Unfortunately punishment is reinforcing for the punisher.

 

As some who has crossed over, I think that until you’ve had that dog with physical and behavioural fallout, people can be pretty resistant to change.

 

The truth is that no breed needs a heavy hand, and force free or rewards-based training (pick your title) isn’t just for puppies or sunny days. Nor is it one type of training.

For anyone who might be curious about learning more, there are a couple of links below.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QJcIPbp8LRK5bj92Xl3oMwRdTN4Fr7K9YNnoFioyLPE/mobilebasic

https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/p/all-about-dogs.html?m=1