kenankaren Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Hi There, Have just taken ownership of a new pup after the loss of our old boy over 10 months ago. the new girl is a lovely dog & full of energy & life she has brought a smile back to both of us & home feels like a home once again. Only thing I was checking about was the issue that we purchased from a registered breeder o this site did everything as asked by breeder etc?? Paid Deposit at 2 weeks Paid in full at 6weeks. Dog has had first Vacinations etc . Went to pick dog up via 7 hour Road trip to be told on the day of pickup that dog had a slight Fault?? Which is a Overbite. We have taken ownership of dog but feel a bit annoyed tat the breeder knew a fair while before we made final payment for pup but didn't disclose this to us prior to picking pup up. Our vet has said she will need surgery to try & fix problem but if this early intervention doesn't work she will probably need major work later on at a hefty cost?? Money for work needed to try help her is not a big issue for first operation But was wondering if we have right to ask Breeder for assistance with second operation if needed ?? Or ask for a partial refund of the original price ?? We are not giving dog back to breeder either so that is not a option. Thanks Ken & Karen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I'd be holding off on any surgery while she still has her puppy teeth. If the issue is a slight overbite, then surgery may not be needed at all - many dogs have overbites that never cause any issues at all. Unfortunately, once you took possession of the pup (after learning of her fault), you may not actually have any legal standing in asking for financial assistance from the breeder if that fault requires expensive surgery at a later date. Sorry about being blunt, but the law can suck sometimes. Right now, if she is happy and healthy, eating, and growing normally, then I'd be NOT looking at surgical interventions at this stage, OK? Oh... and you can't say you have a puppy without posting a photo of her... hehe! T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 First off find a new vet ,any vet that makes those claims at this age is a worry and not a vet I would trust with my dog . Many puppies can have overbites and with the growing process rectify itself. Often surgery is not required ,talk about a dramatic vet. Would i be pissed with the breeder yes . im a breeder and anything like that would be discussed ,having said that bites change so quickly ( did the breeder say they new well in advance) We sold a pup last year perfect bite ,6 months it’s bite went ,total shock too us .We refunded the pup price . Has the issue been listed in the sales contract ..? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenankaren Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thanks for the replies but one thing I forgot to mention in first post was that the reason the Vet is concerned is because her teeth are already starting to punch holes on the roof of her mouth?? Not minor overbite it,s a moderate one at the moment?? And no was not listed in sales contract we were informed the day of pick up of pup. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I’d see a veterinary dentist. They are the best qualified to determine if an intervention is needed and if so what and when, or if it’s something that might sort itself out and they’ll just monitor it for now. Ask your vet for a referral. For some conditions they prescribe ball therapy and it fixes the problem without expensive surgery. If left, these dogs can be in a lot of pain, and being in pain during a puppy’s critical socialisation period can mess with their mental health long term. I have a sneaky suspicion that this is that sort of thing your vet is referring to. My dog has terrible dental conformation, including a severe overbite, but I got him at age 3 so there was nothing to do except rigorous at home dental care and dental/oral surgery at a frequency higher than most dogs. Enjoy your gorgeous puppy! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, kenankaren said: Thanks for the replies but one thing I forgot to mention in first post was that the reason the Vet is concerned is because her teeth are already starting to punch holes on the roof of her mouth?? Not minor overbite it,s a moderate one at the moment?? And no was not listed in sales contract we were informed the day of pick up of pup. Wrote my response above before seeing yours! So I am spot on then with my suspicions. My dog’s dental vet wrote this article. https://sydneypetdentistry.com.au/dental-disease/base-narrow-canines/all-about-base-narrow-canines/ Your vet is wonderful to have picked this up! It can be missed by general practitioners. Full marks to them! Edited November 10, 2020 by Papillon Kisses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, kenankaren said: Thanks for the replies but one thing I forgot to mention in first post was that the reason the Vet is concerned is because her teeth are already starting to punch holes on the roof of her mouth?? Not minor overbite it,s a moderate one at the moment?? And no was not listed in sales contract we were informed the day of pick up of pup. I still am weary off a vet that goes full OMG than saying not ideal but the jaw has lots of growing to do & hits you with the hefty,gonna cost you line.Did your vet discuss a referral to specialist dentist?? You wouldn't even consider any surgery until the jaw has grown i have seen bad bites go perfect in puppies & great bites go bad Your issue is you still brought the pup fully ware it had an issue as you where told ,i would have wanted it noted on the sales contract . What does the sales contract of the puppy state as for as a vet check at your expense within a set period.Did the puppy go with the free 6 week puppy insurance ?? What you want to also decide is it a parrot bite ,where are the incisors currently sitting inverted ?? Edited November 10, 2020 by Dogsfevr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenankaren Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Hi Dogsfevr. Just reiterating that the Vet is concerned for the pup at the moment because the teeth are already sticking into the roof of her mouth which is why we are going to give the minor option a try to help the teeth comming through realign ?? This is no ordinary Vet it is a specialist clinic that we have had no issues with before with our past 2 dogs. Puppy contracts are not used in Australia most sales are done on good merit & no insurance was offered with puppy. Yes we took the pup but were not told prior about the fault we were informed of this on day of pickup?? As I mentioned earlier the main gripe is the fact that the breeder knew about the issue 3 weeks before we took dog as his vet had made note of it on the vaccination records of the dog & I Just feel that he should have been a bit more honest 7 should have let us know especially as it was prior to balance of payment for dog. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 actually puppy contracts are quite common in Australia and many breeders arrange the 6 week free insurance. I'd be p!ssed with the breeder as well for not letting me know of what is potentially a serious fault but I suspect that as you still took the pup after being told about the fault you don't have much legal leeway. However I'd be contacting the DogsQLD office to see how you can go about making a complaint about the breeder. It might not help you recover any costs but it may help the next puppy buyer. Good luck with your little girl. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) Puppy contracts are very common in Australia don’t know who told you they weren’t . Personally I wouldn’t have taken the puppy without discussing the issue ,yes you where told in poor form BUT you had the chance to say hang on a minute we need to think on this & certainly discuss it Edited November 12, 2020 by Dogsfevr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leac1801 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 My bitch has an overbite, it didn't develop until after 8 weeks old. The vet that does my routine stuff freaked out and wanted to remove, was talking about braces etc for a dog that does bite work Took her to my other vet, who is familiar with this issue, and he just cut the lower canines with nail clippers to stop them damaging her gums – the deciduous teeth act as a guide for the adult teeth when they come in, and removing them can make it far worse. I know of two dogs from the same litter that had the same overbite - 1 had the canines clipped, went on to a government agency. The other had the teeth removed, has since had thousands of dollars of surgeries, and it's mouth is a complete mess. My bitch is the only one in her litter with the issue, and it is slowly correcting itself. Hasn't affected her grip at all, she even had a tooth abscess and ended up being rushed to the vet when her face blew up, and was biting like a crocodile the day before. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemappelle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 It sounds like the bottom teeth are under the alignment of the top teeth which is an underbite or parrot mouth. In my experience, depending on breed, the bottom jaw keeps growing so like others have said I would be having the lower K9s clipped or removed and waiting for the adult teeth to come in. What breed is the pup? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenankaren Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 hi Jemappelle. She is an Australian Red Cattle Pup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemappelle Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Here's a good article from the Camden campus of the Sydney University Veterinary Teaching Hospital. Having the puppy teeth removed will help with her comfort now and hopefully the jaw will grow into a better alignment without their hindrance. https://www.univetscamden.com.au/blog/canine_overbite_treatment Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 @asalmay have some good advice, as she knows the breed very well... T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) On 12/11/2020 at 6:10 PM, leac1801 said: My bitch has an overbite, it didn't develop until after 8 weeks old. The vet that does my routine stuff freaked out and wanted to remove, was talking about braces etc for a dog that does bite work Took her to my other vet, who is familiar with this issue, and he just cut the lower canines with nail clippers to stop them damaging her gums – the deciduous teeth act as a guide for the adult teeth when they come in, and removing them can make it far worse. I know of two dogs from the same litter that had the same overbite - 1 had the canines clipped, went on to a government agency. The other had the teeth removed, has since had thousands of dollars of surgeries, and it's mouth is a complete mess. My bitch is the only one in her litter with the issue, and it is slowly correcting itself. Hasn't affected her grip at all, she even had a tooth abscess and ended up being rushed to the vet when her face blew up, and was biting like a crocodile the day before. spot on. never have them removed. My vet said that the vets who want to remove them must have payments due on their new car. ditto for the vets who tell a client their puppy needs patella's done before its even a year old? many can be soft in the ligaments when young, and strengthen until puberty both bones and ligaments are soft and still growing . in fact many vets pop perfectly normal patellas and say they are out when they are just easy to move due the puppies youth. We know this because he has passed puppies at their 8 week vet check and later discovered the new owner has been scammed by their own vet and been operated on before they were even 7 months old Edited November 14, 2020 by asal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenankaren Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 been some interesting reading on this issue so far?? Had a chance to talk to a specialist the other day & he said that the sort of unfortunate issue our girl is that she has copped a double whammy?? Born with a shorter lower jaw & has what they refer to as narrowing of the K9's ?? The K9's are sticking into the roof of her mouth? at the moment we are a bit lost at what to do for her but am going to hope the Specialist is right in the option of removing the troublesome teeth?? They have also said that the breeder should have been more honest about the condition prior to taking the pup But that will be dealt with at a later date. Will let you know how it all pans out.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, kenankaren said: been some interesting reading on this issue so far?? Had a chance to talk to a specialist the other day & he said that the sort of unfortunate issue our girl is that she has copped a double whammy?? Born with a shorter lower jaw & has what they refer to as narrowing of the K9's ?? The K9's are sticking into the roof of her mouth? at the moment we are a bit lost at what to do for her but am going to hope the Specialist is right in the option of removing the troublesome teeth?? They have also said that the breeder should have been more honest about the condition prior to taking the pup But that will be dealt with at a later date. Will let you know how it all pans out.. Yes, the breeder should have told you and then you could decide if you still want the puppy. Ah they did tell you but only when you picked her up? not fair. Even if the breeder missed realising the vaccinating vet should have seen it when doing the vet check. Have to admit I knew one breeder whose vet did not check the teeth yet it is the breeder held responsible for anything the vet did miss. I know my vet checks them minutely, eyes, teeth, patella, legs , testes for the boys and hernias, anything noted goes onto the vaccination card so no one can forget which puppy it is that something was spotted. For every vaccination he does it so any I keep get the all over three times before they are 16 weeks. even the dreaded temperature check, gee some sure hate that one. Trouble is there is so much variation in jaw growth in some puppies, a percentage the jaw can catch up. As others have noted a perfect scissor bite at 8 weeks can go out others that are out can become scissor bite at adult. they dont follow the rules all the time Edited November 15, 2020 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 I'd be leery of doing full removal of canine teeth on a growing puppy... it's pretty huge surgery to get those particular teeth out, and one wrong move can be a disaster. I'd go for trimming or capping the deciduous teeth, and waiting to see what happens when the adult canines come in. T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 I guess what you need to look at is if you decide to pursue the breeder for costs you may not get what you fully want . In this case if we sold a pup & something went wrong after purchase & the person contacted us we would get a second opinion .Why because too many vets do get it wrong & it can be an expensive wrong . We make it very clear in our puppy folder if anything weird crops up let us know. We have been there last year with a pup we sold & what a massive screw the puppy owners did . We received a very nasty email based on the vet telling them we breed an issue & they should pursue bigtime . Give the owners one moment of credit they did decide to email us before they did what there vet wanted . Got a second opinion & that vet was horrified at the complete incompetence & the attitude. The puppy owners forwarded all the tests,x rays to the vet picked ,that vet discussed the findings with there vet & just shock there head . Dog actually had no issue ,had a treatable issue the second opinion vet found & that was found to be due to something the owners mismanaged themselves . Short story pet owners paid big bucks for testing & extra testing based on there vet ,they no longer talk to us due to the aggressive method they picked informing us (most likely very embarrassed ) . There vet as a side note charge $1500 to spay a 6 kg dog which is OMG . So i think you need to do some serious deciding on the path you want to follow . Keep in mind if you ask for refund then generally you return the goods . Many breeders will refund the price & work with the no further costs if you want to keep the pup ,you truly need to start talking with the breeder . As you have found from replies on the post your vet is saying go big ,where those with experience work with go simple whilst still growing . In the end only you can decide 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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