Considering a Border Collie

[Newbie101]

My family and I have been considering getting a dog for quite some time now, and the breed we all love the most is the border collie.  We were also considering labradors but we've been hanging out around dog parks (lol) or out walking and its always the border collies that we can't get enough of...  For us the main practical reason for BC's is they are more active and a bit smaller.  We have a family of 4 (2 kids grade 8 and 6), and we have chickens.  I work 5 days a week but 2-3 of those are from home, even pre-covid.  My wife temporarily is at work 8-4pm 3 days a week, and mornings on the other 2 days so it would be infrequent for our dog to spend a whole day by itself.  My daughter is after a dog that she can go jogging with.  We are pretty active and on weekends would usually be able to go for a longer bushwalk.  After puppy training is over, my intention was to leave the dog outside in our fenced backyard.  We have a large covered patio.  As far as I can tell, we would be able to provide enough mental and physical stimulation for a BC to be happy?

 

We live in Brisbane, just checking that a BC wouldn't need to live inside in A/C all the time in summer?  We only really turn the A/C on when its like 34+ anyway...

 

We have hardwood timber floors, how bad is this going to be for them...  If nails are kept trimmed or worn through lots of walks/runs, is the damage somewhat minimised...

 

I'd be horrified if I was somehow tricked into buying from a puppy farm or bad breeder - if a breeder is registered I take it this means we are on fairly safe ground?  How do I know if there's certain breeders to stay away from?  A standard black&white BC would be great, we aren't after colours. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Rebanne]

When you say the dog will be staying outside do you mean all the time or only while no one is home? 

Ethical breeders would have done health tests on the parents. There are a few health issues, a couple are fatal.

[Dogsfevr]

Maybe also look at Australian Shepherds .

I tend to find them more stable and some great breeders in Brisbane .

 

I guess my question is how much time outside with the dog are you planning?

Including winter,rainy days .

Whilst I’m not a fan off dogs living outside 24/7 I get some people prefer that option for what ever reason but things to consider with this route .

Dog won’t be trained to be clean in the house.

Dog won’t be trained to house rules 

If dog is storm phobiac what is your plan .?

If it’s an extreme heat day ?

When it’s a old senior will it still left outside ?

If dog becomes a nighttime barker what is the plan ?

Floors you can deal with  and manage ,dog learns house rules and the humans learn the dog rules 
a few carpet runners 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dogsfevr

[Tassie]

I'm a Border Collie owner .. started with a BCxKelpie and then pure bred BCs for the last 30 years.   So I'm partial to the breed   but also protective in relation to it.

I would have the same sort of questions as @Dogsfevr - but probably I would say that Border Collies are happiest when they're with their families.  they are good dogs to have just hanging around the house waiting for the humans to be ready to do something interesting .. notice the word 'interesting'  .. so mot specifically very active.   Border Collies thrive on learning 'stuff' ..  which is one reason why you see so many in dog performance sports.  But they can also become bored fairly easily if left to their own devices.  And a fit bored Border COllie is not an easy dog to own.

As far as floors go ... even with well trimmed nails, slick flooring is potentially dangerous for any dog - particularly puppies.  So easy for the dogs' feet to slide out in random directions if they hurry and than can cause traumativc or chronic injuries.

Jogging over any more than a short diistance should ideally happen only after the pup's main growth plates have closed .. say about 14-15 months .. distances increased gradually, and ideally on non concussive surfaces.

As far as breeders are concerned  -  yes .. you're best off looking for ANKC registered breeders .. and even then choosing ones who do full health profiles on their breeding stock .. hip and elbow xrays,  mature eye exams, and full DNA profiles on the parents.  Unfortunately there is an increasing number of problems arising, especially in dogs bred with an emphasis on 'pretty or rare' colours.  

The bad news is that many of the really good BC breeders have been swamped with enquiries for puppies (think 50 emails a day  - even when they don't have any puppies available, and say so on their websites.)

 

In Brisbane, you would definitely need to be considering storm phobia.  It would be something to ask a breeder about .. they may know if there have been many sotrm phobic dogs in their lines.

[Newbie101]

9 hours ago, Rebanne said:

When you say the dog will be staying outside do you mean all the time or only while no one is home? 

 

Oh gosh sorry I really stuffed up while writing my post, what I posted wasn't my intention at all   Its meant to say we'd only leave the dog outside on the occasions when we aren't home during the day.  Most of the time someone is home and the dog would be free to come and go!  And hence my question about floors inside...  No point in having a dog that just lives outside, let alone a border collie...

 

Yep am aware re puppy bone development and not exercising them much.

 

Yes am finding that the good breeders are a bit busy!  Prepared to wait though, but who knows how long the current dog boom will last, wish I hadn't spent two years making up my mind on the commitment required!  Discovered rally-o the other day which looks like a good outlet for a BC.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Benandfamily

[Newbie101]

The second breed on our list was Labradors, but we were worried they would be a bit too lazy for us, eg to go jogging once old enough?  But whenever I mention collies to people (who don't own one) they suck their breath in which is a bit offputting!  Yet when we talk to BC owners that we meet around the place the dogs seem much more laid back than I'm otherwise led to believe, and none of the ones I've spoken to were giving the two hours exercise & training every day I've seen recommended elsewhere, although they'd usually do something extra on weekend... So now I'm second guessing myself again as to who to believe.

[sheena]

I have had border collies for 30 years & wouldn't even consider any other breed.  I started with working bred dogs & the last three have been registered dogs from good breeders. I have found as puppies (ie until about 15 -18 months) they can be very naughty especially in the early months where they literally chew everthing they can get their teeth on, including parts of the house, furniture, electrical cords, toys, beds etc. Then when they reach adolesence all the past training seems to just go out the window & they really test the boundaries.  But this is just the way they are & if you know that in advance, then when you get your pup you can be ready to help combat that with things like crates, CPens (which I found great) & gating them off into their own special place in the house when they can't be watched.  It takes a border collie just seconds to destroy.

They are higly intellegent & love to learn.  Five minutes of trick training is as good as a 30 minute walk.

They are super affectionate & loyal (or at least mine have been)

I love them & THEY have taught ME so much about dogs.  Everyone of them is different.

If you are prepared to put up with their naughtiness in the early days (it doesn't pay to be too house proud)

If you are prepared for them to be part of your family & train them to know the rules & boundaries in a rewarding way & walk him twice a day.

Further education as in joining a dog club & doing Obedience Rally or Agility is super

Oh, & you will need good fences. 

If you have done your homework & know what you will be in for, then go for it 

[sandgrubber]

14 hours ago, Benandfamily said:

The second breed on our list was Labradors, but we were worried they would be a bit too lazy for us, eg to go jogging once old enough?  But whenever I mention collies to people (who don't own one) they suck their breath in which is a bit offputting!  Yet when we talk to BC owners that we meet around the place the dogs seem much more laid back than I'm otherwise led to believe, and none of the ones I've spoken to were giving the two hours exercise & training every day I've seen recommended elsewhere, although they'd usually do something extra on weekend... So now I'm second guessing myself again as to who to believe.

I'm a Labrador person,but I used to run a boarding kennel and have met quite a few BCs.  Many (most?) Labs love to run until they start feeling old age (say 9 or 10 years) and are happy staying fit along with their people. The biggest difference I think you are likely to see is that BCs tend to be busy dogs and are not into cuddling and not big on playing, while most Labs are pretty mellow and are warm and playful with both family and strangers (including dogs). In the kennel I found it amusing that most of the compulsive fetch dogs were herding dogs, not retrievers. 

[Tassie]

My Border Collies love doing a variety of sports .. my boy was the first Rally Champion in Tasmania, and even my previous girl, who loved agility but didn't 'believe' in obedience, was prepared to play Rally with me, and my current slightly cray cray girl loves to play agility and Rally.  They usually love tracking too.   One of the things I really love about them is that if they have been trained to do it, they are perfectly happy to just lie around while they wait for some more action.   Crate training from baby puppyhood is one of the easy ways to train this, and as @sheenahas said .. using baby gates or x pens for those times when you can[t directly supervise will help set good patterns.    

The over the top crazy BCs are usually ones that havent had their brain needs met .. they're well cared for, often, and exercised ..but mostly over-exercised so that their arousal levels are amped up too high and they haven't learnt to be calm.

[Dogsfevr]

18 hours ago, Benandfamily said:

The second breed on our list was Labradors, but we were worried they would be a bit too lazy for us, eg to go jogging once old enough?  But whenever I mention collies to people (who don't own one) they suck their breath in which is a bit offputting!  Yet when we talk to BC owners that we meet around the place the dogs seem much more laid back than I'm otherwise led to believe, and none of the ones I've spoken to were giving the two hours exercise & training every day I've seen recommended elsewhere, although they'd usually do something extra on weekend... So now I'm second guessing myself again as to who to believe.

Cathode owners would tick the right owners for the breed box .

Good owners no matter what the dog Will have a good friend.

Owners who want a breed without living in reality often own a nightmare .

 

I see this daily .

Owners who brought a breed and dedicated themselves to ticking all the boxes .

Then I see owners who brought a dog to be a status symbol and put no effort in and complain about there dog .

I have helped handle both breeds in the ring my preference is the BC BUT that’s because I myself own active breeds with big personalities .

The Labs are great I just like more get up n go 24/7

 

 

[DogsAndTheMob]

Finding the right breeder is even more important than finding the right breed. Both breeds cover the spectrum from active to very, very active, depending in part on the breeders’ goals - show, sheepdog or gundog work, agility or other dog sports. Both BCs and labs should have enough energy to work all day, balanced by an “off-switch” for the quiet days.

 

I’ve owned 3 young BCs plus 2 I took on in their senior years. They were all active dogs that needs mental stimulation, but they got much of their physical and mental exercise from participating in family activities. They all had piercing barks and strong herding drives. Herding drive is something that needs to be managed in many border collies and particularly those from working lines; in the absence of sheep they may herd chooks, children or other dogs.

 

I’ve spoken to enthusiasts of gun dog work, who told me that labradors are the pick of gun dogs because of their drive and indomitable spirit - they’ll charge through briars and into water that’s so cold they have to break the ice. These are admirable traits, but I suspect there’s a downside for pet owners.

 

Even closely related dogs can be very different from each other, but good breeders should tell you if your home wouldn’t suit their dogs, or match you to the puppy that’s the best fit for your home.

 

Finally, even the best puppy won’t grow into a good dog without careful, considerate, consistent and persistent training. It’s up to you. 

 

(PS. Dog training is fun and can become a lifelong interest that bridges generations. Have a look at some of the YouTube’s on agility, Rally, obedience and noseworks.)

[Newbie101]

Thanks for all the advice.  I've spoken to a couple of breeders on the phone and they were really helpful, particularly in putting my fears to rest that a BC = a dog that has to have 2+ hours minimum of exercise a day   We're on some waitlists and will see what happens!  In the meantime there are a lot of things to read and watch on raising and training a puppy.  A couple of different puppy schools and trainers were recommended by the breeders which was good.

[Rebanne]

sounds good!