Help please!

[MamaMia]

 I found the adv. for selling red poodle puppy on www.dogzonline.com.au and contacted the breeder who is registered dog breeder in QLD. I was told by many people it is the safest way to buy a puppy. Finally I got my puppy when she was 8 weeks old for my daughter's birthday gift in March. She was transferred by fly through JetPet from QLD to Melbourne. One the second day she was not well and I brought her to vet clinic, and I was told she has heart murmurs (the breeder didn't mention it to me), got unknow virus and was very weak. I believe the Doctor tried best to save the puppy, however, puppy died in one week since we got her. The breeder was kindly to offer me one or two puppies for my compensation since I spend over $2000 for the bill,  it depends how many puppies on the next litters. Finally the breeder got puppies in July, however, I was told only one puppy was born and died in a couple of hours. I wish people could imagine how upset of my kids. Long story short,  the breeder refunded me $3000 in rush (I paid $3500 for the puppy) and said it is over. One the second day after I got the refund, the breeder posted a photo on her Facebook that she got seven healthy puppies from three mums in one day and all puppies have spoken for. I was too shock to speak anything. After that, she just refused to reply to me on email, phone and message when I tried to contact with her. My heart was broken when I watched the video of 7 puppies which the breeder posted on her Facebook recently. Despite the sadness, it is hopeless for my family to have a puppy with $3500 in a couple of years.

 

My questions are: is that reasonable to ask full refund including the bill of vet clinic from the breeder, and what can I do when the breeder just refused to reply to me.

 

PS: I am pretty sure the puppy got the virus during or before the trip since her sister got the same thing as well. Luckily her sister was recovered soon. 

Thanks for your time and any suggestions are much appreciated!  

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by MamaMia

[tdierikx]

Unfortunately, the most you can expect to receive (under the current laws) is a refund of the purchase price of the puppy.

 

Heart murmurs in young puppies are actually reasonably common, and most resolve within a couple of months as the puppy gets older and stronger.

 

Some viruses can have a short gestation period - 2 days is not unheard of - so proving that the puppy got sick whilst in care of the breeder or transport company might be hard.

 

As for the 7 other pups the breeder has had recently, maybe they were all reserved (read deposits taken) prior to your problem happening. The pup that did not eventuate for you may have been from a different breeding that did not have any deposits yet, and unfortunately sometimes luck is not with us when we want it to be.

 

I understand that you are upset and disappointed, and my heart goes out to your family after this not so wonderful experience, but when you are dealing with live animals, sometimes it doesn't work out as we'd like it to.

 

I don't know what the conversations between yourself and the breeder were like, so I can't pass comment on how she reacted to your predicament... but she did refund you $3000. You may have a case to ask for the remaining $500 of the purchase price however... but you may need to go to small claims court (or Fair Trading) to get it.

 

T.

Edited September 10, 2020 by tdierikx

[MamaMia]

Thanks for your reply! I would probably take the result if the breeder didn't lie to me like that. We have been kept in touch for nearly half an year. The breeder updated the information very on time, eg. the girl has heated, mated, got pregnant... She promised she will give me one or two puppies from a girl. If the girl wasn't pregnant, she also has another two girls got mated. However after she got seven puppies, I was told only one girl was pregnant and one puppy was born and died soon. Looks like the breeder just changed her mind after she got puppies. The hardest thing for me is how to explain to my kids. 

[Pjrt]

 Did you by chance put a non refundable deposit of $500 on the puppy originally? That may explain why only $3000 was refunded. 
As someone else said, all of the other puppies likely already had deposits on them. 
 

[Pjrt]

Personally I’d take your money & run a mile from this breeder now. Contact breeders in Vic and put yourself on a waiting list for a local puppy if you can. 
ive been a pet groomer for many yrs and also in rescue and I can tell you there is a less than ethical breeder of red/apricot toy poodles In QLD I’ve had some really poor examples of their dogs on my grooming table ( dodgy temperaments , severe ewe necks, roach backs, undershot jaws, luxating patellas, heart problems, undersized ‘tea cup’ size dogs which are actually just sickly runt puppies, etc etc) and also a rescuer I know has taken several ex breeding dogs out of there in appalling health. Also, Please please don’t take this the wrong way, I say it only as a fair warning from experience, but also as a groomer I have noticed a massive trend for red toy poodles amongst my Asian clientele, and sadly there are breeders breeding only for the red colour (To the detriment of other health & structural qualities) to meet this particular market. I wish I didn’t have to say that but it’s true and worth being aware of. 
 

[MamaMia]

5 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Personally I’d take your money & run a mile from this breeder now. Contact breeders in Vic and put yourself on a waiting list for a local puppy if you can. 
ive been a pet groomer for many yrs and also in rescue and I can tell you there is a less than ethical breeder of red/apricot toy poodles In QLD I’ve had some really poor examples of their dogs on my grooming table ( dodgy temperaments , severe ewe necks, roach backs, undershot jaws, luxating patellas, heart problems, undersized ‘tea cup’ size dogs which are actually just sickly runt puppies, etc etc) and also a rescuer I know has taken several ex breeding dogs out of there in appalling health. Also, Please please don’t take this the wrong way, I say it only as a fair warning from experience, but also as a groomer I have noticed a massive trend for red toy poodles amongst my Asian clientele, and sadly there are breeders breeding only for the red colour (To the detriment of other health & structural qualities) to meet this particular market. I wish I didn’t have to say that but it’s true and worth being aware of. 
 

Thanks for your information! Honestly I am a bit shocked. I thought looking for a puppy through dogzonline will guarantee the reputation of breeders and quaility of puppies. 

[persephone]

Quote

"Below is the list of registered dog breeders that have advertisements on our site".

AS far as I know , The DOGZONLINE  website is somewhere for breeders to advertise - breeders are not individually assessed as to the quality of their pups ....

[Pjrt]

3 minutes ago, MamaMia said:

Thanks for your information! Honestly I am a bit shocked. I thought looking for a puppy through dogzonline will guarantee the reputation of breeders and quaility of puppies. 

Take a deep breath, be somewhat relieved that you got any money back, explain to the kids that not everyone in the world is exactly honest and even mums and dads sometimes find it hard to sort out the rubbish people. And set about finding a local breeder that you can actually meet their dogs and speak to them in person. 
Also I’m not sure if you had your mind set on any particular colour, but especially in small poodles, look for excellent breeding practices and health tested parents, and the temperament of the breeding dogs, and be prepared to explore other colours to give yourself the best chance of bringing home a dog who will excel as a happy & healthy family pet 

Good luck . 
 

[MamaMia]

7 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Take a deep breath, be somewhat relieved that you got any money back, explain to the kids that not everyone in the world is exactly honest and even mums and dads sometimes find it hard to sort out the rubbish people. And set about finding a local breeder that you can actually meet their dogs and speak to them in person. 
Also I’m not sure if you had your mind set on any particular colour, but especially in small poodles, look for excellent breeding practices and health tested parents, and the temperament of the breeding dogs, and be prepared to explore other colours to give yourself the best chance of bringing home a dog who will excel as a happy & healthy family pet 

Good luck . 
 

Thank you! The puppy was for my daughter's birthday gift which has been asked for years. Not a good example to teach my kids to be a honest person. No any ways to give the breeder a lesson and she will not do that again to other people? 

[MamaMia]

22 minutes ago, persephone said:

AS far as I know , The DOGZONLINE  website is somewhere for breeders to advertise - breeders are not individually assessed as to the quality of their pups ....

I am not questioning the puppy, but the breeder. Such a terrible liar!

[Little Gifts]

1 hour ago, MamaMia said:

I am not questioning the puppy, but the breeder. Such a terrible liar!

Not really. I am not a breeder but know several breeders. It is quite common for good breeders or breeders of certain dogs to have a waiting list, including people who have already paid deposits and been waiting for specific litters (it could be certain colours or sexes or even matings they are waiting for). So while the breeder had multiple litters all the pups from those litters could well have been spoken for already. The litter born in July may have honestly been the only pups that weren't already spoken for and sadly there were no living pups from that litter. Perhaps they had no plans for any more litters or perhaps they have such a long waiting list that it seemed more reasonable to refund you the money. It sounds like if they refunded you quickly they really just felt they couldn't offer you another puppy and were trying to do the right thing so you could buy another elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but the breeder can't give you something she doesn't have if the other puppies are already allocated to other waiting families. Keep looking and ask questions of breeders who offer the breed you want and find someone else you are comfortable doing business with.

[Dogsfevr]

Actually don’t think the breeder is a liar.

It sounds like without all of us knowing the facts the breeder has been good maybe not the outcome you expected but in the scheme of things good.

 

Was $3500 including air freight or did you pay extra .

 

No site guarantees a breeder and even the best of breeders have sad moments.

Just like parents who have a child with issues 
 

Yes puppies die at birth ,that was the litter most likely set aside for you ,breeder had no pup/s but refunded you the money .Just because there are other puppies doesn’t equate to you getting one.
The breeder could have said right I will replace the pup but not expecting another litter for a year especially that colour so felt the refund was the best solution .

 

We many years ago lost 6 puppies due to  a bad vaccination batch at 6 weeks ,6 homes heart broken including ourselves .

Did you get an autopsy done .?
Has you vet supplied you with a written report?

Your pup would have needed a fit to fly vet check in the 2 weeks prior to leaving .

 

Lesson here is breeders should take out the free pet insurance on pups leaving .
Owners should take out pet insurance as well .

 

This is a great lesson for kids ,Mother Nature can be cruel to the breeder and owners ,owning pets is heartbreaking and heartwarming.

No need to make anything more of it to your child than things in life don’t always work out ,you move on and find another breeder .

 

 

 

Maybe the breeder is embarrassed ,maybe you sent messages they felt was no longer a working relationship  and it was best to refund 

Either way it’s time to move on .
 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Dogsfevr

[asal]

so true Dogsfevr, that fit to fly certificate can only be issued by a vet who obviously did not spot the heart murmur

 

I had not advertised a litter for cant remember when, yet I am getting three to five people a day wanting me to put them on a waiting list, past clients and people who have friends who passed my name so that breeder having a long, long, long waiting list is probably spot on

[MamaMia]

On 2020/9/10 at 8:33 PM, Scratch said:

Take a deep breath, be somewhat relieved that you got any money back, explain to the kids that not everyone in the world is exactly honest and even mums and dads sometimes find it hard to sort out the rubbish people. And set about finding a local breeder that you can actually meet their dogs and speak to them in person. 
Also I’m not sure if you had your mind set on any particular colour, but especially in small poodles, look for excellent breeding practices and health tested parents, and the temperament of the breeding dogs, and be prepared to explore other colours to give yourself the best chance of bringing home a dog who will excel as a happy & healthy family pet 

Good luck . 
 

Thanks for your comments. 

[MamaMia]

On 2020/9/10 at 10:29 PM, Little Gifts said:

Not really. I am not a breeder but know several breeders. It is quite common for good breeders or breeders of certain dogs to have a waiting list, including people who have already paid deposits and been waiting for specific litters (it could be certain colours or sexes or even matings they are waiting for). So while the breeder had multiple litters all the pups from those litters could well have been spoken for already. The litter born in July may have honestly been the only pups that weren't already spoken for and sadly there were no living pups from that litter. Perhaps they had no plans for any more litters or perhaps they have such a long waiting list that it seemed more reasonable to refund you the money. It sounds like if they refunded you quickly they really just felt they couldn't offer you another puppy and were trying to do the right thing so you could buy another elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience but the breeder can't give you something she doesn't have if the other puppies are already allocated to other waiting families. Keep looking and ask questions of breeders who offer the breed you want and find someone else you are comfortable doing business with.

To be honest, I would just take it if the breeder told me the truth like what you said. I was told by the breeder that only one of three dogs got pregnant successfully and only one puppy in the litter and died in a couple of hours. My family were very upset for the puppy and the mum and I didn't have a good sleep on that day. I asked her to share the bills with me after I found out the truth because I was shocked and very very angry. I do understand why the breeder changed her mind because of the crazy price of puppy at this stage. Be cheated is much painful than the money lost. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by MamaMia

[MamaMia]

On 2020/9/10 at 11:51 PM, Dogsfevr said:

Actually don’t think the breeder is a liar.

It sounds like without all of us knowing the facts the breeder has been good maybe not the outcome you expected but in the scheme of things good.

 

Was $3500 including air freight or did you pay extra .

 

No site guarantees a breeder and even the best of breeders have sad moments.

Just like parents who have a child with issues 
 

Yes puppies die at birth ,that was the litter most likely set aside for you ,breeder had no pup/s but refunded you the money .Just because there are other puppies doesn’t equate to you getting one.
The breeder could have said right I will replace the pup but not expecting another litter for a year especially that colour so felt the refund was the best solution .

 

We many years ago lost 6 puppies due to  a bad vaccination batch at 6 weeks ,6 homes heart broken including ourselves .

Did you get an autopsy done .?
Has you vet supplied you with a written report?

Your pup would have needed a fit to fly vet check in the 2 weeks prior to leaving .

 

Lesson here is breeders should take out the free pet insurance on pups leaving .
Owners should take out pet insurance as well .

 

This is a great lesson for kids ,Mother Nature can be cruel to the breeder and owners ,owning pets is heartbreaking and heartwarming.

No need to make anything more of it to your child than things in life don’t always work out ,you move on and find another breeder .

 

 

 

Maybe the breeder is embarrassed ,maybe you sent messages they felt was no longer a working relationship  and it was best to refund 

Either way it’s time to move on .
 

 

OMG, I feel so sorry to hear you lost your 6 puppies at the same time. What a horrible! I even couldn't sleep well when the breeder told me the puppy died at birth. $3500 is for the puppy only. Somehow I was pushed to get the refund from the breeder after I told her don't worry and I would like to wait until the next litter. She just refuned me in hurry and then on the following day she posted she has got 7 health puppies on her facebook. After that I asked the full refund probobaly just want to give a lesson or punishment to her. However it seems like I couldn't do anything except to bring it to Court which was the sugguestion from consumer-affairs.