When to put down 13 yo Shepherd-mix with hip dysplagia

[esther5]

I have 13 yo family dog who is some type of Shepherd mix, but a large dog approximately hundred pounds. He was diagnosed with hip dysplagia when he was 7 and underwent a surgery at that time to help him walk. He has been on heavy pain medication since. For the past three-four months, he has been suffering worsening mobility most likely due to his hip dysplagia with significant muscle loss in his hind legs. At this point, he is unable to get up by himself and unable to walk more than five minutes unassisted. He is also incontinent and suffered at least six falls in the past few days often while trying to go #2. 

 

The thing is, he still has an appetite and seems to want to go outside. We started using a make-shift harness in order to lift his hind legs. We are considering getting him a wheelchair for his hind legs. As of now, we have to monitor him constantly so that we can hear him whine when he wants to get up. 

 

He mostly sleeps all day, but considering his limited mobility and who knows how much pain he is in, we have been back and forth considering putting him down. However, this is our first dog, so we don't really know when it's time. I was hoping to get feedback from this community about your thoughts or experiences with dogs with similar situation. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Edited July 16, 2020 by esther5
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[Pjrt]

I talk about this with a lot of my clients, and this is usually what I say

 

first of all, it’s your dog, and your decision. 

that said, I ask people how they want to remember their dog? . Do you want the memory of your dog with a wag in his tail, a glint in his eye, or do you really want the memory of a tired old dog with mobility issues, toileting issues, etc who is flat & lifeless but just holding on?
also think about the level of control you’d like to have. You could decide on a day, and go about making it the best day it can possibly be, set yourself and the dog up for as gentle a passing as possible, with the best memories of the day as possible. That last run on the sand, that last lap of the park, their last feast of their favourite treats ....Or let the dog get to a point where there may be a medical emergency which will leave you with terrible memories of the last moments with your dog, where you’re forced to make decisions quickly and under stress. 
It would be lovely if they just went to bed and didn’t get up in the morning, but the vast majority of dogs don’t afford us that luxury.

personally, I’d take a proactive line, choose a date, make arrangements, choose in advance what you’ll do with your dogs remains, and set about making positive memories. 
I deal with a lot of clients who linger a bit longer than perhaps they should with these decisions, and there’s always regret. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone with real regret from taking control and making the best of the situation. 
It’s the greatest gift we can give back to our pets. 

[Loving my Oldies]

Yes, it is a deeply distressing and difficult decision to have to make.  I agree with Snook - I feel it is time for your boy to be released from his pain and disabilities.  
 

You have come to a forum where probably each and every member has faced this same sad and gut wrenching situation at least once and many (me included) have faced it many times.  IT IS NEVER EASY OR STRAIGHT FORWARD.  You will probably beat yourself up endlessly, whatever you do.  It comes with the territory of love.  
 

Many people say, “You will know when it is time.”  Most of the time, I would dispute this maxim, but from what you have told us, I really feel with your boy, it is time.  He can’t get up, he falls over, he is in pain.  

Just so you know, I am not speaking from a position of “you aren’t going through what we are going through”, I actually am in a similar situation, albeit easier than yours because my dog is tiny and she is not in pain.  She still gets around okay, and, like your boy, is still eating heartily, but losing weight and condition around her hind quarters.  She has degenerative myelopathy, she tumbles over, she gets caught in the furniture and gets what I call “the wanders” and goes around and around the place and if I didn't pick her up and cuddle her, she would do this for hours as her brain has been affected as well.  
 

It is so damned hard and I feel for you and your boy.

 

   

 

 

 

[Rebanne]

Now is the right time. Large breed dog who is old and has had problems with mobility for 6 years. Eating is not always a sign they are happy. Dogs live in the here and now, they don't think oh tomorrow might be better, all they know is now and they rely on us to make decisions that is in their best interest.

It is a very hard decision to make but at all times the welfare of the dog must take priority. It will hurt you unbelievably but it will hurt more if you let your dog suffer. Dog people have a saying, better too early then too late. You have been lucky to get a large breed to 13 and he has been lucky to have you taking care of his needs so well. You have loved each other greatly, that is obvious, but it's time to left him go. 

[Dogsfevr]

When the over all quality isn’t there it’s time.

The fact you’re asking suggests you know it’s time .

We always say a day early is better than a day late .

 

[persephone]

10 hours ago, esther5 said:

he is unable to get up by himself and unable to walk more than five minutes unassisted. He is also incontinent and suffered at least six falls in the past few days often while trying to go #2. 

For me , it would be now . This isn't 'quality of life'  for your boy. 
It's at these times we need to step back, and imagine what our dogs are feeling..every time they go to do something simple, like walk or poo, and fall over  No enjoyment of living here . 
As said, reaching teen years is amazing... let him rest now ...

[esther5]

Thanks for everyone's support, I really appreciate it

 

I should add that my sister has offered to accompany him continuously, meaning having him sit a few feet away so that she knows when he seems to want to get up. She is also willing to hold him constantly with the harness while he walks around outside or gets water. She ordered a wheelchair so that he might be able to go on longer walks. In my honest opinion, I don't think its worth prolonging his distress. But I think he still enjoys eating and going on walks . Also, he hasn't had any falls today. 

 

If my sister can pick him up and carry him/use the wheelchair to help him walk throughout the day, is that enough to say his quality of life is worth keeping?

Edited July 16, 2020 by esther5
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[esther5]

5 minutes ago, Snook said:

I would personally say no, as he would still be in pain and being able to struggle through managing those things with some help, isn't the same as a good quality of life. I realise it's easier for us to say to let him go when he's not our dog but it does sound like it's time. 

It's just difficult to assess his pain or show my family that he is in distress because when he is laying down, he looks completely normal., still panting and sometimes begging for food. Otherwise, just sleeps the rest of the day. 

[esther5]

11 minutes ago, Snook said:

Have you taken him to be assessed by a vet? A vet's opinion may help your family see that he's suffering. 

Unfortunately, he is unable to get into a car and we think it would be very stressful to bring him to the vet. Also he hates going to the vet, and we don't want to put him through that. We tried calling our vet today but they don't offer any phone consults.. So we may consider paying for a vet to do a home visit, although its a hefty fee.

[Rozzie]

Pay for the home consult. Worth it for peace of mind for you and doing the right thing by the old boy.

[esther5]

24 minutes ago, Snook said:

A vet needs to physically examine him, not just do a phone consult anyway. I think at this point that it's essential for him to see a vet asap if your family can't see that it's time and if the only way that can happen is by paying for a home visit, then it needs to be done. It sounds like it might have been some time since he's seen a vet if you can't get him in to a car? Is he on pain relief for his condition? 

Yes, he's been on pain medication for about three years now. We have tried alternate medications but he often has a sensitive reaction to a lot of medication such as liver damage, rash, and diarrhea. I agree that phone consult might not suffice. I talked to a vet today, and did not get much input. I'll try to schedule a home consult ASAP 

[persephone]

1 hour ago, esther5 said:

If my sister can pick him up and carry him/use the wheelchair to help him walk throughout the day, is that enough to say his quality of life is worth keeping?

sadly, no... He is old, and his body is failing  . We often forget to keep dogs happyand healthy  for THEIR ENJOYMENT , not keep them alive for our benefit . It is selfish of us to expect them to struggle , just so we can have them around a few more weeks  

[Dogsfevr]

1 hour ago, esther5 said:

Thanks for everyone's support, I really appreciate it

 

I should add that my sister has offered to accompany him continuously, meaning having him sit a few feet away so that she knows when he seems to want to get up. She is also willing to hold him constantly with the harness while he walks around outside or gets water. She ordered a wheelchair so that he might be able to go on longer walks. In my honest opinion, I don't think its worth prolonging his distress. But I think he still enjoys eating and going on walks . Also, he hasn't had any falls today. 

 

If my sister can pick him up and carry him/use the wheelchair to help him walk throughout the day, is that enough to say his quality of life is worth keeping?

I dont want to burst your bubble but the dog wheel chairs aren't that simple.
They require front strength to pull them ,they will require atleast 2 people to get him in safely without stressing him & some dogs hate them & panic.

I have owned a dog that required the use of a wheel chair for about 6 months during that time we also did intensive exercises of his front to keep him in muscle tone & able to pull himself .
During his time of not being able to walk we also had to ensure no bed sores,no laying around to much incase of fluid build up & organ crushing .I was lucky he was a 12 kg dog .
HE HATED the Wheel chair with a passion as it scared him ,you cant leave them unsupervised in them incase they tip over & given his lack of body tone & condition will likely find the effort to get in the harness tiring so when it arrives make sure you take safe baby steps .You dont want it so stressed it has a heart attack for example.

Its hard when family members arent on the same page not in the sense of its time now but not respecting that the dogs quality is not there & decisions need to be discussed and made .
Given a pet its wings is a wonderful gift when the time comes after many years of unconditional love & asking very little from there humans in the scheme of things .This when the humans need to step up & be the owners that know its time ,they cant live forever & they shouldn't suffer for us .

It sounds like you have your head in the right place even though our hearts would say something else .
Maybe your sister needs the wheel chair to make that decision but just be careful the dog doesnt get caught in the middle ,its hard enough getting over the grief off a pet but from someone who made the wrong decisions the first time its harder to live with the regret off knowing you where selfish & the dog suffered for it .
As such know you apply a totally didfferent respect to this process & it is never any easier but knowing it was the right time makes it easier



 

[persephone]

13 hours ago, esther5 said:

he still has an appetite and seems to want to go outside.

Eating and eliminating/being clean are instincts which are often among the final instincts to die .... they are not really a judge of a dog's QUALITY OF LIFE .  
the urge to toilet outside has been there for all his life ...his doggy brain will just keep on sending that message - he doesn't have the ability to THINK ...
"I am VERY VERY ill, my body will not be able to cope, I'll lie here and the humans will help   "
..his body will just continually fail, as it is so fragile and old.  

My Old Mitchell  became faecally  incontinent - was still happy , but stiff & sore , old, and covered in varying fatty tumours. He was embarrassed at his incontinence ..he would try and get outside, and not make it
For me, that was the turning point . We had a few good last days , letting him do whatever he enjoyed - chasing rabbits etc ... and then I let him go , a decision I have never regretted . I would have bitterly regretted having him bedridden and unable to enjoy the things he got a sparkle in his eyes from. That would have been heartbreaking for me  He was in his teens , had been with me 24/7 for most of those years, and I miss him every day - BUT I remember him bright eyed and in the sunshine , eager for the morning's outing ....wagging his tail madly ...

[Two Best Dogs!]

It may be your sister struggles with letting go - it's hard to know when the time is right versus too late with someone you love.

 

There is an online calculator to help you work out if your dog has a decent quality of life or is "just existing"

 

https://journeyspet.com/pet-quality-of-life-scale-calculator/

 

and you may find this blog post helpful to read, on knowing when it is time to let your pet go while letting it be a peaceful end.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/death-with-dignity-why-i-chose-to-put-my-horse-down-on-a-good-day

[Dogsfevr]

Something for you to think off though.

When the time comes what is your plan ..??
 

Will you be looking for a mobile vet to PTS

Will you be taking the dog to the vet

Will you be burying the dog or cremating or another option for religious reasons .

Many hope they will just pass away at home or experience it’s rare .

 

We own big dogs as well as our small .When big is at there worst it can be hard to get them too a car ,a good solid blanket/Doona can help .

 

It’s an emotional time when it happens and you will be asked what you want too do .

 

[esther5]

7 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

Something for you to think off though.

When the time comes what is your plan ..??
 

Will you be looking for a mobile vet to PTS

Will you be taking the dog to the vet

Will you be burying the dog or cremating or another option for religious reasons .

Many hope they will just pass away at home or experience it’s rare .

 

We own big dogs as well as our small .When big is at there worst it can be hard to get them too a car ,a good solid blanket/Doona can help .

 

It’s an emotional time when it happens and you will be asked what you want too do .

 

Yes, we have a euthanasia service set up . The vet will come to our home just so it's more comfortable for him since he hates going to the clinic. They can take the body for cremation and give us the ashes because my mom would like that option. 

[Loving my Oldies]

Such a sad time, @esther5.  Take your time, spend as much time with your boy, talk to him, sing to him.  Despite making all the arrangements, it can still be a shock and a huge sense of loss and responsibility.  
 

Our thoughts are with you, your family and your darling boy.  

[BDJ]

Very difficult for you and your family, but I fear it is more difficult for your dog at the moment.

 

I truly appreciate what you are going through, have been there.  

 

I would like to comment on the information you gave that your sister will pick him up etc.    This WILL cause him pain.   It is not possible for one person (or even two) to pick up a large dog without squishing or holding bits firmly.   If you put your arm under his bum, the hips are being squished.   If you put you arm under his belly, you are putting pressure on the belly, his spine will be impacted and his hind legs and hips will be left dangling and unsupported.  This is no issue with a sound dog - people do it all the time.   But he is not sound.

 

Also, some dogs simply don't tell you when something hurts.  I know a whippet who cracked a shoulder blade.  Owner (very knowledgeable) knew she had injured something, but had no idea what.  Vet (very good and experienced greyhound and whippet vet) could find nothing on exam.  He did every manipulation and pressure test.  She told him nothing (even subtle stiffening, muscle twitch).  Finally, he got an eye roll at the shoulder.   Xray showed she had cracked it straight though.  Thankfully rest fixed it as no displacement etc.  She was in pain, but she was a stubborn and tough witch. 

 

I know what I would do, and to be honest (on the information given) I would have already done it.  Tough, tears and sorrow - but it is our responsibility to be the grown ups at these times, and being a grown up means making truly sucky decisions sometimes.

[YOLO]

Firstly, I am sorry you are going through this.  You have my utmost sympathy and prayers.

Many people have very strong views on this.  I'm not going to criticise them for their decisions or actions, but they have no right to tell you that you should have already done it.  That's just hurtful and unhelpful.  You are the only one is a position to judge and make the decision, ALL we can do is offer advice.

 

Please do not allow yourself to be bullied into making a decision you will regret.  You need to make the right call, but it needs to be yours.

 

Asking "how do you want to remember your dog?" is utter nonsense.  Hopefully you will long remember their whole life, and no old dog ends their life in their prime.

 

It's true that dogs are not very good at communicating pain, and that they will suffer in silence, and so we need to make decisions for them.  But you can judge by their actions.
My Jasper is 16, and I know he lives with discomfort, but he also knows his limitations.  He's extremely deaf, and I imagine that if if he could process that realisation it would make him sad, but he just lives with that reality.  He's on Carprofen now, and it has made a world of difference, which for me is also a positive sign.  I can see that he is in far less pain than he was.  He still prances when he's excited, and that's a good sign.

I'm going to assume that as his owner, you're able to best judge his level of pain, and when it is triggered.  Is he able to play laying down and/or be rolled on his back for tummy rubs?  Or is the pain constant?
Does he appear to always be in pain when walking, or is it only specific movements such as climbing?  You really need to evaluate how much pain he's in, and make your decision based on that.
If by falling, you mean that his legs are giving out in pain when he tries to squat, then yes sadly that's a big negative indicator.

 

Best wishes in making what I know is an extremely difficult and traumatic decision.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Big D