NikkiandKane Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) Over these last weeks since Kane’s surgery, he has never been left alone, hubby and I have taken turns watching him like a hawk, monitoring for any scratching but also for him eating anything he shouldn’t. it means that he now has developed some separation anxiety. since he eats anything he can destroy, if we go out he is left in his crate with no bedding and some indestructible toys. I try to just leave him for short times to work on it but his behavior is getting worse. Last night we left him for 3 hours to go to our sons housewarming, I left him with a kong stuffed with Greek yoghurt and treats and a carrot. He isn’t too distressed to eat the kong but after he finished he mustve gotten very distressed because he had urinated in the crate and it was everywhere, he had even somehow bent a bar in the crate!!!!! Our other dog was in a crate right next to him. he sleeps in our room in a smaller crate which he only just fits in now, we had planned to move him out to the laundry with Scout much sooner but now I know it is going to be hard. suggestions and advice are very welcome. I work from home so am always here. I can put him in the crate in the laundry regularly for short times, I have the time to do whatever but I cannot just put him outside........ in good news, his health has come a long way and for the moment I feel confident he can’t harm himself if he does get distressed while in the crate. Edited June 8, 2020 by NikkiandKane spelling: he didnt eat a king and he didnt have superstition anxiety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I suggest seeing a specialist ,his desire to eat things may be associated behaviour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I’ve been thinking anxiety disorder too with the PICA and now this, but didn’t want to hit you over the head with too much ‘see a specialist’ comments. Snook and I both have dogs with anxiety disorders. It really is worthwhile getting a proper diagnosis and treatment plan from a behaviour vet (veterinary behaviourist) sooner rather than later. And while it can be costly, I think it’s going to save you a lot of money in the long run with foreign body surgeries, other injuries, and destroyed property. I’m sorry ‘cause I know you probably don’t want to hear this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 16 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said: Thanks for sharing that, I might be a bit dim.... I read the whole thing and really didn’t understand how Kane fits in to any of the “clusters” or how to help him.... I need a version for “dummies” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 oh gosh, I wrote a whole big long reply and it has disappeared! The gist of it was, we are broke....self employed on the Gold Coast during this covid situation, I literally have no disposable income after spending our savings on Kanes recent surgery and all the other stuff I have had to buy for him!! So no, I dont want to think about an anxiety disorder. I am going to have to deal with this situation the best I can without having an anxiety disorder myself!! we are seeing a private trainer for a few weeks. I do have another vet appointment with Kanes regular vet on Wednesday where I will ask for some advice but I cannot afford another vet bill right now. If I could just put Kane outside with Scout he would be happy but I cant risk it because if he gets another blockage, we cant afford the surgery and the only option doesnt bare thinking. He walks across rocks everyday to get to his toileting area and he hasnt tried to eat any rocks since his surgery. I am inclined to think he was eating rocks and dirt because he had something lacking from his diet (he was on chicken and rice only for a fair while with his loose stools and skin issues) and the chewing up of beds .....he is a staffy! our older girl did it a lot in her younger days and still would if she was left alone with certain tempting beds. I just need to take a step back and try to relax and deal with it bit by bit trying to be calm and strong. I will continue to do research but I am afraid that at the moment I cant afford anything more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Sorry I’m just popping in here based on the last few posts and have not read Kane’s back story.......but was wondering if Kane could/would wear a well fitted basket muzzle for a while so he could be safely outdoors with Scout? You’d probably need to do some conditioning regarding accepting the muzzle. And obviously not a solution for times when you are not home. Just thought of it as an option for him to be able to hang outside with his buddy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, Scratch said: Sorry I’m just popping in here based on the last few posts and have not read Kane’s back story.......but was wondering if Kane could/would wear a well fitted basket muzzle for a while so he could be safely outdoors with Scout? You’d probably need to do some conditioning regarding accepting the muzzle. And obviously not a solution for times when you are not home. Just thought of it as an option for him to be able to hang outside with his buddy. Thanks Scratch, we are working on that at the moment, I purchased a basket muzzle but it is a little big on him, so while he grows (fast) I am working on getting him used to putting his snout in it calmly for a reward. We do have a section of yard which is newly turfed and pretty much safe for him, I am thinking of trialing him in the part of the yard with scout for short periods while I spy out of the window . In fact, I think I will do that for 15 minutes tomorrow and gauge his reaction, if it is a good reaction, I will repeat throughout the day on and off and build up so that he can be out there if I need to go shopping etc. I really think my paranoia is adding to the problem. I think it is justified given our experience so far, but it isn't helping when I let myself get really stressed about it all. If you wanted to read through a long post thread, look at my 'bowel obstruction' post, I think it goes back to highlight most of our issues to date. I should also add, I am sorry If I sounded snappy in my earlier post. I really do appreciate everyones suggestions and suuport 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 As your seeking out a trainer be sure to ask many questions before handing your money over ,to be honest some cost more for there own first evaluation than a first vet behaviourist consult & you get no where . A grooming client of ours paid $380 first consult evaluation to be told the biggest load of crap out. I actually have handled the dog in the ring so aware off where it needed help & where the owner had taken a wrong turn in the training . With follow up appointments its going to cost her near $500 . So i do say in all seriousness pick the trainer wisely,ask about there experience with possible sep anxiety and if they have knowledge on PICA . If it is PICA and its behavioral then managing it correctly is a must . There are alot of crappy trainers out there ,there are some good ones but finding the one that is the right for for your dog even harder & be prepared there answer may be see a vet behaviorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 23 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said: As your seeking out a trainer be sure to ask many questions before handing your money over ,to be honest some cost more for there own first evaluation than a first vet behaviourist consult & you get no where . A grooming client of ours paid $380 first consult evaluation to be told the biggest load of crap out. I actually have handled the dog in the ring so aware off where it needed help & where the owner had taken a wrong turn in the training . With follow up appointments its going to cost her near $500 . So i do say in all seriousness pick the trainer wisely,ask about there experience with possible sep anxiety and if they have knowledge on PICA . If it is PICA and its behavioral then managing it correctly is a must . There are alot of crappy trainers out there ,there are some good ones but finding the one that is the right for for your dog even harder & be prepared there answer may be see a vet behaviorist We have already started our obedience lessons with a private trainer. I actually found the recommendation on here. At this stage I have only paid $180 for 3 one hour sessions. I am not sure she is going to tick all the boxes but we are working on a few things to assist with our main issues.... I will keep you posted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 This morning I put Kane in his crate with a Kong while I dropped my daughter to school. It’s very close so I was gone for around 10 minutes. I came home to him quietly munching on his Kong. Waited for him to finish while doing some work on the computer and then took him out to the toilet. So it appears he is ok with short intervals! i also just put him out in our turfed area with scout and came inside to spy through the window. He bugged scout a fair bit, licking in her mouth (for some reason he does this obsessively). He sniffed around and played with Scout and didn’t seem at all concerned about me leaving him. I left him for around 20 minutes and went and got him. I will continue to do this sporadically through the day and slowly increase the time. It would be great if I could confidently leave him outside while I do groceries etc. I was even brave enough to let him sniff around the rocks in our carport whilst watching closely. He didn’t try to eat any. i feel like he is always hungry. His weight is good, maybe a bit lean but he is growing so much, he is always sniffing around for food, like a little scavenger, so that is something I would like to address. overall I am happy with how we are going, I may need to employ a baby sitter if we plan to go out for very long until we progress some more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, NikkiandKane said: He bugged scout a fair bit, licking in her mouth (for some reason he does this obsessively). ...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little' gesture . She is obviously being a very patient girl What a great update! You've done really well..all of you!! Keep up these baby steps , and BREATHE 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 hours ago, persephone said: ...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little' gesture . Ah good to know, I thought he wanted to be a dentist because he gets right in there. Scout does sometimes tell him off for it. She’s very tolerant though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 09/06/2020 at 9:55 AM, persephone said: ...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little' gesture . Ah good to know, I thought he wanted to be a dentist because he gets right in there. Scout does sometimes tell him off for it. She’s very tolerant though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Yay, big step forward today. I took my daughter to school while leaving Kane with his Kong in the small crate in our study (it’s where we spend much of our time, so he’s comfortable here). I came home after around 10 minutes and he glanced up at me from his Kong and went back to happily munching on it. the secret was wedging a whole carrot in the end! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I know I am coming to this late but the weeing in the crate could have been as something as simple as "I'm still young and forgot my training" and the bent bar, again " I'm still young, wonder if I can chew this just because I can!" The fact that Kane does settle with a kong is very encouraging. Also, as he has spent a lot of time in a crate he might be a bit sick of it all. Have you tried Crate Games by Susan Garrett. I think you are doing a great job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Rebanne said: Have you tried Crate Games by Susan Garrett. I think you are doing a great job. I haven’t but thanks for the tip. I will look into it and thank you. training yesterday was a bit discouraging. I don’t think we found the trainer for us, so that is nice to hear 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Rebanne said: as he has spent a lot of time in a crate he might be a bit sick of it all. yes, poor lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Some contacts if you decide to see someone in the future. This is your local Behaviour Vet, but there are many e.g. Creative Animal Solutions, Pet Behaviour Vet, AVBS and more who do remote consults (which can often be cheaper). http://www.calmcompanions.com.au/ and a trainer Canine Journeys. Nancy Tucker (via fenzi dog sports I think) and Malena de martini have online courses re separation related anxiety. Check Malena’s website for lots of info too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiandKane Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just an update. We have decided that it is not separation anxiety but normal puppy behaviour after talking to a behaviourist. We try not to leave him alone for any length of time until he feels more independent and are working on games etc which achieve this. He regularly goes in the laundry crate for up to 40 minutes while I do housework like vacuuming or mopping and he is very relaxed about it. I let him out before he shows any signs of distress. He loves having a Kong in there. he is slowly becoming more confident, happy to wander off to another room to sleep in a patch of sunshine and not having to follow me everywhere. also he hasn’t even attempted to eat a rock since his surgery. there’s lots of things we are working on but he seems quite happy and well adjusted. he now knows not to walk through doors to the outside without sitting and meeting my eyes, that’s the magic trick for anything he wants, meet my eyes. he also knows sit, drop, roll over, shake, high five, speak and touch. I love doing “touch” with him, it has taught him good self control to just gently touch a target without biting. He knows the meaning of a bunch of words too. i just realised there’s no rush to leave him alone for very long. We can get there on his timetable since I work from home anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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