Nervous in new situations, 16 week old BC, advice?

[forfarhill]

Hello there 

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice, recommendations (books, dvds whatever really) or anecdotal stories that may either help me out or soothe my anxiety over my current doggy situation!

So my situation is I currently have a really gorgeous 16 week old border collie pup named Clouds, she is of working lines-she was purchased from the same breeder my other older sheepdog came from, it was the last full sibling litter and my other dog is an awesome working dog so I couldn't miss the opportunity! I visited the litter from 3 weeks old and picked out this pup, she was not the front of the pack but not timid and last out either, she seemed like a nice easy going pup to me. The breeder said she was the boss of all the others and extremely confident. She was a little shellshocked the first couple of days home as is to be expected but quickly came around and has since fitted in just fine, she helps with chores, barks at various stuff with the other dogs etc. She was initially very nervous of running cars ,but so was her full sibling, and she is over that pretty well now so I didn't think much of it. My impressions upon initial training were she was quieter and more thoughtful than her sibling, she will sit and watch you rather than try and jump up or bark. I took her and my other dogs (the 'pack' as I refer to it) out for a couple of outings when she was around 10 weeks. She did not like the car ride but very much liked the adventures at the other end, including swimming in the river and chasing the other dogs about in the sand. Then there was a Parvo outbreak, reports  of sick and dying puppies flooded in and we decided to keep her home for fear of losing her. I continued to train her basic things, sit, drop, come etc, she will loose lead walk at home, plays fetch somewhat reliably and will tug. I've also trained her to have her harness on and off and to offer focus. Being on a farm she has plenty of room to run and also met plenty of strange people (she loves people!).

Now that the Parvo danger has passed I have started outings again. Complete disaster. First I just went for 100m walk out our front gate with my mum leading another dog for reassurance......she was ricocheting off the end of the lead, tail tucked down, ears back, obviously scared. I stopped several times to try and offer treats for letting the lead loose but she was completely over threshold, she couldn't even look at me. We packed up and promptly went home (much to the other dogs disgust!), I've since tried a couple more times just simply walking out the gate and straight  back in, treats and praise! But she isn't having it. In fact now even heading to the front gate makes her anxious. So I did what all anxious dog owners do-I googled it. Apparently since we missed the prime solicitation period I'm doomed to have a super anxious dog forever now. I really do not enjoy super nervy or timid dogs (hence why I visited several times before choosing her and grilled her breeder before my final decision), several of her other littermate went to farms around the same time and were also were restricted by the outbreak. I've met a few since and they are doing fine. I'm in the mindset it's partially a lack of socialisation (which according to my research is irreversible) and partly her nature. She's obviously very confident in her comfort zone (like I've accidentally dropped a noisy bucket next to her head and she didn't blink confident) but incredibly timid away from it.

So the question now is: what can I do to give this pup the best chance of becoming more confident?

I'm looking at buying Controlled Unleased for puppies and also for the reactive dog, I'm looking for obedience classes nearby I can visit and just hang out on the sidelines without actually interacting, I'm taking her for short adventures to places with little outside stimuli (no strange dogs, people and vehicles etc), what else can I do? I'm alternating taking the other dogs for moral support and taking her solo. With the other dogs she usually will get over her anxiety fairly quickly, but she has to be off leash (I let her drag a longline) so I only do this is safe places that often have very little novel stimuli. On her own I try to click and treat, and also offer toys/play games, but she is usually over threshold the second we leave the gate so its pretty pointless.

I kind of had visions of doing agility or herding trials with her but I'm now feeling pretty discouraged and thinking maybe that isn't on the cards for us. Has anyone had a good result from a similar situation? Any advice to offer? Anything and everything is most welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Vanessa

[Tassie]

Hi Vanessa … well done you for recognizing and researching a problem and coming up with a plan .. and already trialling it.  Your pup is lucky to have you.

Bearing in mind I cannot see your pup, and I am far from an expert .. although I am on my 4th and 5th pure bred Border Collies, and I have competed in obedience, rally, agility, tracking and Dances with Dogs over many years - still am competing now, and heaven help me, training up a lovely over the top slightly crazy girl at the moment .. 2 and a half and just slightly starting to calm down a bit.  

 

First thing I would say is that while getting out and about in the world safely before 12 to 16 weeks is a great advantage for a pup, safety is the first consideration, so with parvo rampant .. you do what you have to do.    Your pup did have some early socialisation, and you can pick up now (gradually) as you're doing.    If you live somewhere where you have access to a good (fear/force free) trainer - preferably someone with agility./obedience/BC experience, then I would do that.  Checfking out training clubs in the area is a good plan - at the club I teach at down here, we would certainly be happy to have you attend on the sort of basis you're describing .. in fact, we recommend that where necessary.

 

I would be concentrating on continuing to build up a really great relationship with your pup, so your pup sees you as the source of all good things.  Playing retrieve games, chasing games (she chases you to get a reward) toy games … especially tugging on a long tug and letting her win often while making sure you ultimately control the tug, chasing a flirt pole … as well as some trick training, .. anything you can think of that is safe and that she enjoys.   For an agility career, these things are more important.  As her confidence and enjoyment in being with you is strong, you can do the sort of thing you described .. just sitting and hanging out in relatively calm places .. going there by car - short journeys.  And playing games like nose touch to hand while you're there.   

 

You can get some calming chews (containing tryptophan) from pet stores  -  Blackmores make one .. - which might be worth a try as well.

[persephone]

ouch   how disappointing and upsetting. 

Until something brilliant comes to my brain, or someone pops in with suggestions ..have a look here. This explains things very well and is written by someone whose team is one of the best in the country should you need assistance ~ 
 

My only suggestion would be to sit at, or just inside the gate for a few days ..playing, feed her there , until she is settled . Then move outside the gate a foot or so ...meanwhile..take her and the other dog/s  for car drives so she can see/smell different things  (windows down a bit ) ..just around areas you normally walk

 

[Papillon Kisses]

Good advice from Tassie. Also grab yourself an adaptil collar (online from a reputable Aus store will be cheaper and you can still get the money back guarantee if she doesn’t respond).

[sandgrubber]

4 hours ago, forfarhill said:

Apparently since we missed the prime solicitation period I'm doomed to have a super anxious dog forever now. 

No true.  My Springer pup came to me at 14 weeks due to some transport problems.  She came as close to screaming as a puppy can every time she met a strange dog, and sometimes went on to 'attack' in a rather pathetic and harmless way.  I simply ignored it.  She got used to my other dogs (Labs... Big but not aggressive) pretty quickly.  Took months before the screaming stopped for unknown dogs.

She's just over a year now... It's all passed. She's good with almost everything and not nervous. 

Sometimes it just requires patience. 

 

[forfarhill]

@Tassie thank you for the advice! I am working hard on making myself awesome to her, she's a very smart little cookie and enjoys games and pats which is great for me   I am going to email some clubs around to see what info I can find out about them and to also feel them out about just letting her come and watch from afar to start. I've been doing lots of tug (letting her win and them swapping for another toy or food) and also case and hide games as well. She seems to enjoy that quite a bit  I've actually just bought a flirt pole! I'll look into the calming chews as well.

 

@persephone Yes exactly! It is awful seeing her go from herself to, well, not herself at all   I feel a bit mad at myself but I did what I thought was best at the time. Thanks for the link  My plan now is to pop her on the longline (so she can retreat without being able to hide out entirely) bring out myself and the other dogs and park myself down by the front fence, this way she can stay back until she gains confidence but she will be tempted by me treating/playing with the other dogs. She can duck in for a reward and then retreat until she gets  brave enough to stick around and then we'll move closer to the gate. 

 

@sandgrubberThis is what I was hoping to hear!  It is very anxiety provoking for me watching her get distressed but I know the way forward is through continued careful exposure and me not making a big fuss over the whole business. Thank you for replying, its very heartening.

[Two Best Dogs!]

Your dog is not doomed from missing out on a few development windows  she is young yet and has many more developments to go through!

 

it is very overwhelming for both you and her. Sounds like she’s right into her fear period. 
 

take it nice and slow, at her pace, to encourage curiosity and exploration. Show her the world is an okay place m. Sounds like she’s a thinker so may be lots of watching but encourage sniffing, different surfaces etc. It’s not a race and you can only measure her against herself. 
 

if you know people with well mannered and calm dogs, meeeting and hanging out with them may help. She’ll have a chance to see her new buddies are feeling okay and by extent she’s can be too. 
 

if you can grab a copy of puppy culture, it’s very helpful for building resilience. It’s geared to puppies under 12 weeks but honestly the information provided is just as helpful for older puppies and adult dogs. 
 

keep heart, she will mature up nicely in time. Don’t forget lots of fun relaxing breaks and naps for you both 

 

ps. I see she plays. Look up Amy Cook’s play way. It’s geared for using play to being sensitive and shy dogs out of their shell

Edited December 5, 2019 by Two Best Dogs!

[sheena]

Nothing to add here, from one who has a crazy 10 month old BC pup...except that we need photos 

[forfarhill]

@Two Best Dogs! Thanks  for your reply! Its exactly what I wanted to hear, I'll persist with gentle exposure and use other dogs to my advantage whenever I can  I'll look up Amy Cooks play way and have a look.

 

@sheena Her sibling is definitely more of the crazy persuasion....in no particular order I have caught her:

# carrying around the watering can (she empties it first if required)

# Digging her teddy bear into the other dogs water bucket, retrieving it, slapping it on the ground and then repeating until she's made muddy puddle

# fighting with the rooster through the fence

# Stealing feed buckets and then running around with them in her mouth/rolling around with her head inside them

# Shredding a large cardboard box all over the lawn

# Trying to eat her longline

# blowing bubbles in the water bucket

# Liberating and dragging the broom around the house

# Getting up on anything slightly raised, like stumps or milk crates

# Climbing on top of three stacked dog crates to try and  get on top of the fridge (not sure what she was going to do once she got up there....)

Its amazing how different they are  But I guess its a good thing.....otherwise they'd team up fir double the  trouble!! Although  Clouds did steal her harness and run off with it yesterday so not that different I guess 

I'll try and get some pics for you if I can, in my biased opinion she is very gorgeous ;)

 

 

[Papillon Kisses]

Do you have two puppies at the same time?

[forfarhill]

@Papillon Kisses The older siblings about a year and a half now.....so she's an adult  although she still often acts like a pup! Half of the list above was preformed recently  I make sure alter dogs have time time together (max an hour a day) but the 16 week old gets plenty of time out on her own too (at least 3 hours, rest of the time she's either secure in her crate or with me), they all have seperate crates/pens. My partner does have a puppy also, I've been very militant about doing everything seperate (feeding, training, etc), much to everyones consternation 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by forfarhill

[Papillon Kisses]

@forfarhill brilliant. You’ll need to continue the separate socialisation etc to avoid littermate syndrome with the other pup in particular, but it sounds like you might have read up on that.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by Papillon Kisses

[Tassie]

5 hours ago, forfarhill said:

@Papillon Kisses The older siblings about a year and a half now.....so she's an adult  although she still often acts like a pup! Half of the list above was preformed recently  I make sure alter dogs have time time together (max an hour a day) but the 16 week old gets plenty of time out on her own too (at least 3 hours, rest of the time she's either secure in her crate or with me), they all have seperate crates/pens. My partner does have a puppy also, I've been very militant about doing everything seperate (feeding, training, etc), much to everyones consternation 

 

That list sounds perfectly normal to me ..  .. and my crazy girl is 2 and 3/4 now.

[forfarhill]

@Papillon Kisses I have indeed read up on littermate syndrome.....am I giving away my perfectionistic tendencies? 

 

@Tassie I'm just calling it her personality now!

 

Good news is today I took Clouds and her older sister for an excursion to the river and a good time was had by all! Now I  just need to work up to a solo outing for Clouds to the river, she tends to hyper focus on the other dog which is great for her anxiety but not something I want permanently either. I think working  on play will certainly help her have something to focus on whilst  also keeping me on her priority list.