Need advice regarding sick puppy and the breeder

[teddybeans]

15 hours ago, anon2345 said:

I will ask the vet how he cleared the puppy with an ear infection - it comes across as negligence..

 

Yes, the ear infection has cleared up. 2 weeks of drops and daily cleanings did the trick

 

We have had an ultrasound done to get the visual results also which backs up what our vet thought by listening to the heart. 3 different vets have said it’s not something she’ll grow out of it unfortunately, it’s a defect within her heart. We don’t know what has caused it or what we have to do treatment wise, which is the information we’ll get in 3 months when we see the cardiologist 

I don't think you will get anywhere with this.  It is probably a dodgy vet or less reputable one.

 

I wonder whether if you get a second vet opinion and get in writing their diagnosis.  If it confirms the first one, then there should be no dispute.  The problem is the expense of getting this done and also if you don't anything back from then, then you are forking out more money than necessary.  I think the only way is to hire a lawyer, but to do that will cost money as well.  So ultimately, even if you recover the cost, you will be paying for the lawyer fees.  

 

This is a tricky one.  I'm sorry you are in this situation and there is no obvious department that can help you.

 

I'm glad the puppy is in your care and not the unethical breeder.  But sorry for the pain you are going through.

 

 

 

 

[tdierikx]

16 hours ago, anon2345 said:

That’s good advice, thank you very much.

 

Really grateful to all the advice I’ve received! It’s so easy to get caught up in the emotions rather than thinking logically.

 

The breeders vet has been in contact with my vet so hopefully we can get somewhere in the next couple of days. I’ll report back with any updates

 

ETA: I know it’s possible the breeder/vet were unaware of the heart. I just find it really hard, if not impossible, to believe that in the window of 3 days the puppy went from showing normal auscultation to a grade 3 heart murmur.

Are you saying that the fit to fly vet checkup was dated within 3 days of when you received the pup @anon2345?

 

T.

[Rebanne]

2 hours ago, tdierikx said:

Are you saying that the fit to fly vet checkup was dated within 3 days of when you received the pup @anon2345?

 

T.

yes that is apparently what happened.

[anon2345]

4 hours ago, tdierikx said:

Are you saying that the fit to fly vet checkup was dated within 3 days of when you received the pup @anon2345?

 

T.

Yes, that is what happened. I don’t think a vet would have signed off in good faith surely, especially if he knew the ear wasn’t going to be treated by her... it would just get worse!

 

ETA - 4 days before actually

Edited July 17, 2019 by anon2345

[Deeds]

Two years ago I purchased a pedigree dog from a registered breeder interstate.  This is the 1st time I have purchased a dog interstate.

 

The pup was always listless and crying in pain.  We thought he had hip dysplasia so we took him (9mths old) to Vet to be x-rayed.

 

The Vet took blood (at my insistence) and found he had high creatine levels. We were then referred to SASH.  SASH did an ultra sound & MRI & confirmed the dog had Renal Dysplasia both kidneys.

 

Including the cost of the dog and followups we were up to over $6ooo.  The dog is supposed to be "Breed Standard".  As kidney dysplasia is considered a congenital defect we would never be able to breed with the dog .  The dog can't be shown as he is supposed to be 60-70kgs.  He  weighs 38kg. and is on a special diet for life.

 

When I approached the breeder I was told he was breed standard.  This dog was half the size of the other dogs in his litter.  Under no terms would I get a refund I was told.  This dog is on the Main Register.

[tdierikx]

5 hours ago, anon2345 said:

Yes, that is what happened. I don’t think a vet would have signed off in good faith surely, especially if he knew the ear wasn’t going to be treated by her... it would just get worse!

 

ETA - 4 days before actually

Not good... but we don't know exactly what she may have said to the vet about the ear infection. Could be that as a breeder, she might have had medications to use already at home, and he thought she would at least start the treatment?

 

@anon2345 - what is the actual nature of the heart defect? Is it a faulty valve, a hole in the heart, or an irregular muscle function?

 

T.

[anon2345]

2 hours ago, Deeds said:

Two years ago I purchased a pedigree dog from a registered breeder interstate.  This is the 1st time I have purchased a dog interstate.

 

The pup was always listless and crying in pain.  We thought he had hip dysplasia so we took him (9mths old) to Vet to be x-rayed.

 

The Vet took blood (at my insistence) and found he had high creatine levels. We were then referred to SASH.  SASH did an ultra sound & MRI & confirmed the dog had Renal Dysplasia both kidneys.

 

Including the cost of the dog and followups we were up to over $6ooo.  The dog is supposed to be "Breed Standard".  As kidney dysplasia is considered a congenital defect we would never be able to breed with the dog .  The dog can't be shown as he is supposed to be 60-70kgs.  He  weighs 38kg. and is on a special diet for life.

 

When I approached the breeder I was told he was breed standard.  This dog was half the size of the other dogs in his litter.  Under no terms would I get a refund I was told.  This dog is on the Main Register.

I’m really sorry to hear this. Did you take it further? How is the dog doing now?

[anon2345]

1 hour ago, tdierikx said:

Not good... but we don't know exactly what she may have said to the vet about the ear infection. Could be that as a breeder, she might have had medications to use already at home, and he thought she would at least start the treatment?

 

@anon2345 - what is the actual nature of the heart defect? Is it a faulty valve, a hole in the heart, or an irregular muscle function?

 

T.

The issue is with her pulmonary valve. It doesn’t work competently, and she’s at risk of getting very, very sick, very, very quickly.

 

also this was her first litter so the vet would have known she isn’t an actual breeder... I actually believe they’re good friends based on things she’s said.

Edited July 17, 2019 by anon2345

[anon2345]

Another update - breeder has refunded us the cost of the ear infection, provided we don’t pursue her for any other medical bills 

 

thank you to everyone who provided advice and well wishes. This has been a very important lesson for us to learn the hard way, but maybe this will prevent someone else from making the same mistakes we have

Edited July 17, 2019 by anon2345

[Deeds]

Two years ago I purchased a pedigree dog from a registered breeder interstate.  This is the 1st time I have purchased a dog interstate.

 

The pup was always listless and crying in pain.  We thought he had hip dysplasia so we took him (9mths old) to Vet to be x-rayed.

 

The Vet took blood (at my insistence) and found he had high creatine levels. We were then referred to SASH.  SASH did an ultra sound & MRI & confirmed the dog had Renal Dysplasia both kidneys.

 

Including the cost of the dog and followups we were up to over $6ooo.  The dog is supposed to be "Breed Standard".  As kidney dysplasia is considered a congenital defect we would never be able to breed with the dog .  The dog can't be shown as he is supposed to be 60-70kgs.  He  weighs 38kg. and is on a special diet for life.

 

When I approached the breeder I was told he was breed standard.  This dog was half the size of the other dogs in his litter.  Under no terms would I get a refund I was told.  This dog is on the Main Register.

[Deeds]

Anon the dog is doing really well now thanks to the SASH Specialist & our diligence with his diet.

The breeder washed her hands of us when we informed her.  No replies to emails etc.

We could see there was no point in pursuing the matter.  The dog is not a frenchie or blue staffy.  It is not one of the trendy breeds/mixes.

We were annoyed that we paid full price for breed standard and didn't get breed standard.

I would not be surprised if other pups in the same litter had this condition.

I won't be buying interstate again.  

[persephone]

@anon2345 I think you've been very successful to get that much from this person. Unfortunately, you still have a puppy with a severe health complication. Now though, maybe concentrate on what you DO have ... a waggy tail puppy , and a mission - to tell your story .

Oh ..and an obligation ;) to post at least a photo of little Lola ... so we can all go awwww... 
 

 

[anon2345]

21 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Anon the dog is doing really well now thanks to the SASH Specialist & our diligence with his diet.

The breeder washed her hands of us when we informed her.  No replies to emails etc.

We could see there was no point in pursuing the matter.  The dog is not a frenchie or blue staffy.  It is not one of the trendy breeds/mixes.

We were annoyed that we paid full price for breed standard and didn't get breed standard.

I would not be surprised if other pups in the same litter had this condition.

I won't be buying interstate again.  

I’m glad your pup is doing well! I won’t be buying interstate again either, too much of a risk!

[anon2345]

21 minutes ago, persephone said:

@anon2345 I think you've been very successful to get that much from this person. Unfortunately, you still have a puppy with a severe health complication. Now though, maybe concentrate on what you DO have ... a waggy tail puppy , and a mission - to tell your story .

Oh ..and an obligation ;) to post at least a photo of little Lola ... so we can all go awwww... 
 

 

I think so too, we count it as a win that we got something from the breeder. Now to never have to deal with her again!

 

I’m not really sure how to post a photo, but here goes... hopefully it works

 

 

 

 

[teddybeans]

1 hour ago, persephone said:

Oh ..and an obligation ;) to post at least a photo of little Lola ... so we can all go awwww... 

Awwwwww...

 

very cute indeed.  All the best with Lola

[asal]

She is beautiful,  frankly it would not have mattered if you bought interstate or around the corner.

 

puppies are not whitegoods, they are utterly individual..although cavaliers come with quite a few endemic to the breed problems. heart problems are endemic in many cavaliers, the first cavalier book I read, gave 8 years as the average life span, which is pathetic for a toy breed. I wondered why when I read the book, soon learned why.

 

I used to breed them, ear problems are also endemic, as is poor chewing action so tarter buldup is a given, their teeth do not shear their food properly... I adore cavaliers, but sadly gave up breeding them because you simply could not guarantee sound puppies and I had dogs that were hernia free, 90% patella free, mitral valve free for 5 to 7 generations and they could still develop a heart murmur any time from 4 to 5 years on, the majority i had and bred were fine at 10 even

to 14, but you simply could not guarantee it, as for syringomyleia, that was finally the deal breaker for me..

 

only had two develop it, but a friends had to have a mri due to a tooth infection that was suspected to be cancer.... although she has no symptoms, and is now 14 and still symptom free the mri says she has syringomyelia .... a friend had all her breeding stock mri'd only used the clears and only used clear when using other lines and still could get affected pups, its still a work in progress.

 

your darling looks very cavalier style, so keep a good eye on her teeth, and their floppy ears keep them a sitting duck for yeast infections..... I always clipped the insides of their ears to keep good airflow, and plucked the hairs from the ear canal (standard practice in poodles or they get the same problems, all floppy hairy eared dogs need this seen too)

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by asal

[anon2345]

3 minutes ago, asal said:

She is beautiful,  frankly it would not have mattered if you bought interstate or around the corner.

 

puppies are not whitegoods, they are utterly individual..although cavaliers come with quite a few endemic to the breed problems. heart problems are endemic in many cavaliers, the first cavalier book I read, gave 8 years as the average life span, which is pathetic for a toy breed. I wondered why when I read the book, soon learned why.

 

I used to breed them, ear problems are also endemic, as is poor chewing action so tarter buldup is a given, their teeth do not shear their food properly... I adore cavaliers, but sadly gave up breeding them because you simply could not guarantee sound puppies and I had dogs that were hernia free, 90% patella free, mitral valve free for 5 to 7 generations and they would still develop a heart murmur any time from 4 to 5 years on, the majority i had and bred were fine at 10 to 14, but you simply could not guarantee it, as for syringomyleia, that was finally the deal breaker for me..

 

only had two develop it, but a friends had to have a mri due to a tooth infection that was suspected to be cancer.... although she has no symptoms, and is now 14 and still symptom free the mri says she has syringomyelia .... a friend had all her breeding stock mri'd only used the clears and only used clear when using other lines and still could get affected pups, its still a work in progress.

 

you darling looks very cavalier style, so keep a good eye on her teeth, and their floppy ears keep them a sitting duck for yeast infections..... I always clipped the insides of their ears to keep good airflow, and plucked the hairs from the ear canal (standard practice in poodles or they get the same problems, all floppy hairy eared dogs need this seen too)

 

That’s really interesting, and you raise some really good points that I wasn’t aware of so thank you! I’ll definitely keep an eye on her teeth and ears, and her heart will be checked regularly by her vet. 

 

I don’t know how breeders do it - I have a lot of respect for the ethical breeders because it must be a tough job!

 

Is there a way to tell if she’s got any issues chewing or with her teeth? She seems to have no issues chewing but if there’s a symptom I’ll keep an eye out for her.  

[teddybeans]

3 hours ago, asal said:

used to breed them, ear problems are also endemic, as is poor chewing action so tarter buldup is a given, their teeth do not shear their food properly... I adore cavaliers, but sadly gave up breeding them because you simply could not guarantee sound puppies and I had dogs that were hernia free, 90% patella free, mitral valve free for 5 to 7 generations and they could still develop a heart murmur any time from 4 to 5 years on, the majority i had and bred were fine at 10 even

to 14, but you simply could not guarantee it, as for syringomyleia, that was finally the deal breaker for me..

@asal  is that the reason why they cross breed them nowadays to weed out these problems?  

[sandgrubber]

2 hours ago, teddybeans said:

@asal  is that the reason why they cross breed them nowadays to weed out these problems?  

There is no 'they'.  All breeders, including cross breeders, are individuals.  

[tdierikx]

5 hours ago, teddybeans said:

@asal  is that the reason why they cross breed them nowadays to weed out these problems?  

Many crossbreeds are bred nowadays for the money factor... give the cross a "breed" name like Cavachon or Cavapoo or similar, and charge exhorbitant sums for them... *sigh*

 

Unless all breeding animals used are fully tested for issues they could pass on to their offspring, it's really a lottery in what will happen with the offspring... and sometimes, like asal pointed out, some issues are not that easy to weed out of a particular pure breed, let alone when crossing them with other breeds that may or may not help or hinder that process.

 

T.