Need advice regarding sick puppy and the breeder

[asal]

be interesting asking the rspca

 

best of luck and would be appreciated if you could keep us up to date, so hope ends well for you.... if it was a worm issue you will see improvement in six weeks

 

[asal]

Think Rebanne is right, you can only report her to the rspca  if your puppy was not microchipped or vaccinated, it is law that they must be..... remarkable how many people still dont know that even though its been illegal to sell an unvaccinated or microchipped puppy or kitten for more than twenty years now

[juice]

You bought a mongrel from interstate without checking the parents and probably paid a heap of money . 

Big bucks in it for them with no consequences, they don’t care about the pup , you wont get a penny out of them . 

This is why you don’t buy interstate unless it’s recommendation from an ethical breeder or you risk buyer a health  nightmare, and xbreds are tested for nothing and carry the hereditary problems from whichever 2 breeds they mix . 

[asal]

I remember Rob Zammit showing a cute little maltese x shih tzu and it had every fault both breeds can carry, forget which lifestyle show, it sure wasn't the garden gnomes who put up so much advertising for x breds and encouraged it....  

 

Rob pointed out that x breeding from faulty parents does not give the magic hybrid vigour so many were touting as the reason to get a x bred....

 

He had left the garden gnomes program 

 

unfortunately the message does not seem to have been noted or spread successfully

Edited July 15, 2019 by asal

[Dogsfevr]

 MY question would be why did the vet clear it for flying with an ear infection ?

Im also surprised the vet has openly discussed this pup over the phone without consent from the breeder or proof you are actually the owner .

The privacy law covers this area .

Your best beat is to contact your state body on what is the process regarding purchasing a faulty product  as dogs are considered a product/ goods .

The breeder has actually offered a refund on return of the pup which is how it works when purchasing goods .

Some will offer an exchange which is why it’s important to contact you state body on purchase issues and decide your best option ,that may be small claims which may mean you have to do it through the courts in your state you purchased the pup .

 

Basically you need everything in writing not verbal .

Go to those with correct knowledge on this area 

 

[persephone]

I was also wondering how this pup got flight clearance...but maybe the vet was unaware it was actually flying?

[Tassie]

I have no words of wisdom on what you might be able to do …. but I just want to commend you on the responsibility you have taken for this poor little pup, and the loving care you have given and are giving.  I can only wish that the message about the importance of buying only from reputable and ethical breeders who really care about the health and well being and future lives of the puppies they cause to be born, even if that means having to wait for the right puppy,  could be reaching far more people.

[anon2345]

I’m not sure why the vet did release records, but he did send across the puppies records to our vet which shows a diagnosis of a yeast ear infection, present in both ears... no mites. He also signed off on her fit to fly certificate, so he was aware she was flying.

 

The breeder has contacted our vet today, basically implying she doesn’t believe that the puppy has a condition with her heart. 

 

The breeder hasn’t offered a refund yet - she hasn’t offered us anything other than the promise of eventually getting back to us.

 

I know in hindsight I should have done more research on the puppy, the breeder and the parents. The puppy is the innocent party in all of this, and no less deserving of a good quality life so I will do whatever it takes to provide that. 

 

I think at the very least I should get a refund for the ear treatment 

 

thanks again everyone for your advice, it’s so appreciated!

[tdierikx]

You may have a case for the untreated ear infection costs... as that has vet records from breeder's vet with the diagnosis prior to the pup going to you.

 

The heart condition may be harder if there is no mention of it when the breeder's vet did their checkup prior to the pup coming to you.

 

Heart murmurs in pups can sometimes crop up and/or resolve on their own, but it can be hard to state categorically that they are genetic or congenital in nature, especially if prior vet checks haven't noted the issue - and he did pick up the ear infection at that checkup, so it wasn't totally half-arsed... a heart murmur is pretty obvious when heard through a stethoscope, even a low grade one.

 

T.

[asal]

3 hours ago, persephone said:

I was also wondering how this pup got flight clearance...but maybe the vet was unaware it was actually flying?

fit to fly is exactly that, so some one mucked that up all right

 

as for the puppys vet who vaccinated her giving you the information, the fact that you had her vaccination certificate proved you are now her legal owner, my vet welcomes puppy buyers contacting him for any info regarding their puppy. He files everything he notices about each puppy for me or their future owner.  

Edited July 15, 2019 by asal

[persephone]

6 minutes ago, asal said:

fit to fly is exactly that, so some one mucked that up all right

That's for sure

[juice]

Perhaps you could email the vet and ask why they cleared the pup to fly with an untreated ear infection? 

[Dogsfevr]

3 hours ago, asal said:

fit to fly is exactly that, so some one mucked that up all right

 

as for the puppys vet who vaccinated her giving you the information, the fact that you had her vaccination certificate proved you are now her legal owner, my vet welcomes puppy buyers contacting him for any info regarding their puppy. He files everything he notices about each puppy for me or their future owner.  

A vac certificate does not prove your a legal owner at all and any vet handing out info based on that theory is going to get themselves in trouble .

 

there are plenty of scenarios where someone has the vacc card of a dog but are not the legal owners nor privy to getting info from the vet .

 

 

 

 

 

[tdierikx]

I read it as the OP's vet has been sent the pup's records from the previous vet... and the OP has been given that info by their own vet from those records... perfectly normal and legal process.

 

There is a small chance that the ear infection may have precipitated the heart murmur... certain infections can be a causal link. If that is the case, then maybe you could have a case for more refund of vet related expenses when/if you lodge a claim against the breeder. Basically, if the fact that the ear infection was left untreated by the breeder, and it has caused the heart problem, then the breeder may be liable for all costs related to treatment of the resulting defect.

 

@anon2345 - has the ear infection been cleared up fully yet? Have you had follow up ultrasound or other imaging to find out if the murmur is definitely a defect in the heart, or is your vet only going by the ECG results that don't actually show same visually? Visual imaging will give you a much better idea of the severity (or not) of any defect of the heart.

 

Certain heart murmurs found in young pups have been known to resolve on their own, so unless there is a physical defect causing the problem, I'd be loathe to jump to conclusions as to genetic or congenital causes without visual imaging to prove such physical defects exist.

 

T.

[anon2345]

I will ask the vet how he cleared the puppy with an ear infection - it comes across as negligence..

 

Yes, the ear infection has cleared up. 2 weeks of drops and daily cleanings did the trick

 

We have had an ultrasound done to get the visual results also which backs up what our vet thought by listening to the heart. 3 different vets have said it’s not something she’ll grow out of it unfortunately, it’s a defect within her heart. We don’t know what has caused it or what we have to do treatment wise, which is the information we’ll get in 3 months when we see the cardiologist 

[Rebanne]

Personally I would not enter into any more correspondence with the breeders vet. You don't know that the breeder didn't say ok, is pup fit to fly in a couple of weeks after the ear infection has cleared up, and the vet signed off in good faith on that. Or similar. You would just be getting the vet's back up and/or warning them to expect further action.  Send an email to the breeder stating you want a refund of vet costs up to the cost of the puppy within 14 days or you will take it further legally. Then wait. No more back and forth. Also re the heart problem, it may not have been apparent until the pup got to a certain weight/size, even if present at birth, so the breeder and their vet may not have been aware.

 

ETA Thinking about it I wouldn't send an email unless you have a good tracking program. I would send a registered letter that they have to sign for, then they can't say they never received it

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rebanne
extra thinking time

[anon2345]

4 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Personally I would not enter into any more correspondence with the breeders vet. You don't know that the breeder didn't say ok, is pup fit to fly in a couple of weeks after the ear infection has cleared up, and the vet signed off in good faith on that. Or similar. You would just be getting the vet's back up and/or warning them to expect further action.  Send an email to the breeder stating you want a refund of vet costs up to the cost of the puppy within 14 days or you will take it further legally. Then wait. No more back and forth. Also re the heart problem, it may not have been apparent until the pup got to a certain weight/size, even if present at birth, so the breeder and their vet may not have been aware.

 

ETA Thinking about it I wouldn't send an email unless you have a good tracking program. I would send a registered letter that they have to sign for, then they can't say they never received it

That’s good advice, thank you very much.

 

Really grateful to all the advice I’ve received! It’s so easy to get caught up in the emotions rather than thinking logically.

 

The breeders vet has been in contact with my vet so hopefully we can get somewhere in the next couple of days. I’ll report back with any updates

 

ETA: I know it’s possible the breeder/vet were unaware of the heart. I just find it really hard, if not impossible, to believe that in the window of 3 days the puppy went from showing normal auscultation to a grade 3 heart murmur.

Edited July 16, 2019 by anon2345

[Rebanne]

3 hours ago, anon2345 said:

 

ETA: I know it’s possible the breeder/vet were unaware of the heart. I just find it really hard, if not impossible, to believe that in the window of 3 days the puppy went from showing normal auscultation to a grade 3 heart murmur.

I had a puppy put down at 7 days old because he had an incomplete anus, the opening was just a hole, not what you would normally see. Missed by vet and me. He was fine, I thought, until he started whinging one night and I thought he had a belly ache. Picked him up and tried rubbing his tummy and checked him out in case of constipation and saw under his tail. He had survived and thrived for 7 days until the opening was no longer working. He must have got to the size and weight where it was a problem. So while I think it is doubtful your pup went from no heart murmur to grade 3 in 3 days, I think it is possible.

[Dogsfevr]

When it comes to hearts things can be tricky .

We have had a 6 week pup vaccinated and all fine ,pup reached 8 weeks and things changed dramatically.

It can and does happen and one vets grading can be different to another .One vets idea of a murmur is not the same as another ,Good vets can tell the difference within reason ,some pups sound like washing machines and a vet say murmur but it isn’t ,it’s not black/ white .Some pups get so overwhelmed at There first vet visit hearts can be tricker to hear ,there are factors that p,at a part 

You took the pup due to the ear but I gather the pup seemed active and happy when you picked it up not acting like a pup with a dodgy heart ?.You had no reason to think it’s heart was a problem 

No different than humans .

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Dogsfevr

[anon2345]

Puppy seemed healthy enough, though we had concerns based on her coughing and breathing way faster than she should be. Not major red flags but not quite normal.

 

Im really sorry to hear about your puppy, Rebanne. That sounds horrible!