Designer dogs

[Selkie]

So, I'm on a facebook group that loves the oodles (the group wasn't started for this purpose). I try to educate, but find it overwhelming. Does anyone have a link to a good article that explains the risks/issues with these dogs?

 

These facebook people all seem to believe that their beloved puppies come from a loving home that responsibly breeds crossbreds for the joy of it...

 

Edited for clarity

Edited June 10, 2019 by Selkie

[Rebanne]

I'd be leaving the group. Not all the oodles have issues and some are bred by responsible people. Not that I agree with them but no way would I be on an oodle group

[Selkie]

The group isn't dedicated to oodles. There are many people on it with a wide range of experiences and thoughts on dogs. It's just that there's a few very vocal people on there who own oodles, and love to recommend them. There's also a lot of people who don't know much about dogs, and go there for advice. Yes, I'm often tempted to leave, but I'd like to put a few good links up to educate the ones who want more information.

[juice]

I would give up personally. they are a mix that is taking over and its pointless trying to argue.

We all know the majority come from puppy farms, i see them all the time at work and they are nervous nellies or mad as. At the moment lots are coming in trying on dog coats and they are terrified of having them put on.

I had a lady the other week tell me she had 2 cavoodles and had just bought a moodle and couldn't understand why it wasn't the same as was causing her grief because it was hyper.

I have to bite my tongue often and not tell people what i really think , its a different mix you moron !

I only winds you up, i just don't bother anymore

[twodoggies2001]

I am often outnumbered at the park by oodles as I have purebreeds and on the whole, they are lovely dogs but, they are crossbreds and to put it bluntly, mongrels, and I don't mean this in a nasty way. 
There are heaps of lovely ones out there and dearly loved by their owners.  What gets me is that these oodles are most times, more expensive to buy than pedigreed dogs and the owners don't seem to mind and call the person who sold them their puppies the 'breeder' and that their pup came with papers.  Huh?  

Juice, you're correct.  It's pointless to argue so I don't. 

[Two Best Dogs!]

You could give resources to help identify puppy mills so they can avoid, encourage them to meet the parents, inspect where the puppies are living etc. encourage them to keep an eye on the oodle rescues too. 

 

The kinds of information that is important when buying a dog regardless of the breed or mix thereof to ensure they’re getting a healthy and happy puppy or dog.  Set them up to succeed and enjoy their new companion. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Two Best Dogs!

[asal]

my vet hated puppy farms and was all for having them shut down, now he said he has come to realise that without puppy farms and backyard breeders,  90% of people would not be able to find a puppy now the ankc breeders are on the main either not breeding, or only one or two litters a year.  any ankc breeder who does breed more than one or two litters a year is hounded until they too give up.  

its the kiss of death to speak up and say I do  not back those members who believe no one should be breeding more than three litters at most... (to me this is not being "ethical" its being selfish and only looking after your kennel... it is almost impossible for newbies to get a main register pup or dog to found their own kennel and become  a registered breeder.. now the majority are dead end kennels and proud of it.)

 

friend used to breed cavaliers, she had a neighbours poodle get to one of her girls and she had over 30 calls for each pup?

 

She had also done the unconscionable, (to the minds of fellow breeders, even though all her dogs were dna profiled, mri scanned etc)  bred ten litters the year before and the number of visits by the rspca was becoming fortnightly.

 

now she breeds cavoodles and made so much money they paid for her first home (she had been renting acreage) which was an ex greyhound breeder, 7 acres and 120 luxury kennels, heated beds even, now has two homes on acreage?  now negotiating to buy a 3rd and rent two of them, isn't even 40 and could retire if she wanted?

 

she never has to advertise, she said word of mouth has more phone calls than puppies available. More remarkable, never had a visit from the rspca since she ceased to be an ankc member?

 

doubt it?

 

The garden gnome certainly had a lot to do with the promoting of the xbred, no idea why since he has purebreds himself?

 

I have put this up before, until the ankc's stop assuming shutting down breeding our purebred dogs is the only way to reduce the filling the pounds, its only going to continue be downhill for purebreds and membership numbers.. Although I doubt it is possible for the mindset to change now, all my long term member friends are questioning why continue

 

http://ankc.org.au/media/6598/a-forensic-view-of-puppy-breeding-in-australiav4.pdf

Edited June 11, 2019 by asal

[corvus]

You know, some people don't want an ANKC registered dog, and that is okay. They are not wrong just because they don't make the same choices as you do. They are not necessarily uneducated just because they bought a dog you would never buy. A little tolerance goes a long way. 

 

I train oodles all the time. I do behaviour consults for oodles. By and large, it's obvious to me why they are so popular. Purebreed fanciers always start with the premise that there is a problem with them and how can we tell people what those problems are. Well, if there was an overall problem with them, they would not be half as popular as they are. They are here to stay. Get used to it. My podengo is glad, at least. She is totally discriminatory about oodles. SHE LIKES THEM. They are usually polite with her, so she is more comfortable approaching them than other dogs. 

 

All kennel club recognised breeds were mongrels at some point. Breeds were developed when people decided they wanted some traits from some dog types and some traits from others so they selectively bred them until they had a good bet they could reliably get those traits. 

[sandgrubber]

I don't worry much about DDs.  Here in NZ, it's obvious that the Huntaway was a designer dog... and the design worked.  Rat terrier in the US .. Another successful design.  Go back 150 years and you can add dozens if not hundreds of breeds to the list. 

I do, however, worry about commercial dog raising, ie puppy farms, whether pure or cross bred.  Selection for $ does no good. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by sandgrubber

[asal]

12 hours ago, corvus said:

You know, some people don't want an ANKC registered dog, and that is okay. They are not wrong just because they don't make the same choices as you do. They are not necessarily uneducated just because they bought a dog you would never buy. A little tolerance goes a long way. 

 

I train oodles all the time. I do behaviour consults for oodles. By and large, it's obvious to me why they are so popular. Purebreed fanciers always start with the premise that there is a problem with them and how can we tell people what those problems are. Well, if there was an overall problem with them, they would not be half as popular as they are. They are here to stay. Get used to it. My podengo is glad, at least. She is totally discriminatory about oodles. SHE LIKES THEM. They are usually polite with her, so she is more comfortable approaching them than other dogs. 

 

All kennel club recognised breeds were mongrels at some point. Breeds were developed when people decided they wanted some traits from some dog types and some traits from others so they selectively bred them until they had a good bet they could reliably get those traits. 

That is why I have always preferred purebreds, you know what you are getting, If I want a non shedding, i adore the poodle. One friend loves her bichon's for the same reason. I do tend to worry about the oodles in that the people who buy then think they are getting non shedding, but a percentage do shed and on top of that they, like their poodle side must be constantly groomed and clipped or the dog suffers.

 

trouble is after the fashion for  anthropomorphism of our dogs began, everyone jumped onto the bandwagon, breeders included. Sounds cute to call them your fur child, whats the harm?  We all do it, but we do need to remember they are dogs,   What also began was the hunt to 'eliminate' puppy farmers and backyard breeders.   Trouble was it was the same in the 70's as now. Unless you live in an apartment with no backyard then you like any accused witch  in the past can be labeled a backyard breeder and puppy farmer.  We are lucky the accused cant be dunked until they drown or burned at the stake if they didn't drown, (was neat, eliminated the accused regardless, if they drowned they were innocent, but if they survived the dunking proved guilty because only a witch would survive underwater, so then burned at the stake)
 

https://www.thesprucepets.com/anthropomorphism-1118402

 

His comments about fireworks is interesting, my sons dogs are petrified of the local fireworks, I was babysitting them that night, took them inside and turned on the tv. on the tv was what? the fireworks.... they took one look at me happily watching the screen and and sounds and curled up and went to sleep.  ignoring the racket outside.

 

 

 

seems the enthusiasm for witch hunts still exists today. Many ankc members firmly believe only the pure of heart.   the new word today is "ethical" although some add "responsible" only breed to replace for the next generation.   No breeding for others to have a pet or begin a new kennel.  Any surplus to their needs litter mates are either steralised or desexed before being  "rehomed" or "adopted" to new homes.  Proud dead end kennels.

 

so anyone who does not adhere to that belief is hounded mercilessly, doesnt matter if they are a member of their breed club, are on the committee and work tirelessly for their breed, once accused there is no mercy.  Watched it happen over and over and over for decades now. The purges have been so successful even blind freddy can now see the ankc members are imploding their own registry..... but they are pure..... have to eliminate the impure.... who cares if as a result the very breeds they love are heading for extinction?

 

the figures are increasingly proving their success.  but the pure at heart are blind to the repercussions

 

 

I am lucky I was a member when people saw the best in others, not the worst.

 

Even though the ankc's know their member base was the very people being hounded out, pensioners who bred their puppies to supplement their meager pension... (there was survey done in the 80's or 90's, forget the year.  90% of new members didn't last 5 years, the long term 10 years or more were the pensioners. ) 

So even though they knew that most new members lost interest within 2 to 5 years they said nothing when the push to make it harder and harder for a newbie to become a registered breeder?  The attrition rate is still the same.  But the number who make it though to apply for a prefix is a faction of the number who could before.... that is tens of thousands less members and in membership fees the ankc's do not get anymore. and the shrinking numbers of members is easily checked for yourself.

 

When you realise how many millions more Australians there are who could become members but there are no puppies available for them, it is a tragic loss to the hobby.

 

but am I the only one who thinks that?

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by asal

[Deeds]

The latest "designer "breed to turn up in my local park is a Bernese Mountain Dog crossed with a Poodle.

 

All these breeds apparently come from "breeders" with "papers."  $4000 worth of cross breed with Bernese health problems.  

[Kazm]

3 minutes ago, Deeds said:

The latest "designer "breed to turn up in my local park is a Bernese Mountain Dog crossed with a Poodle.

 

 

What would that even look like 

[_PL_]

On 6/10/2019 at 8:09 PM, Selkie said:

So, I'm on a facebook group that loves the oodles (the group wasn't started for this purpose). I try to educate, but find it overwhelming. Does anyone have a link to a good article that explains the risks/issues with these dogs?

 

These facebook people all seem to believe that their beloved puppies come from a loving home that responsibly breeds crossbreds for the joy of it...

 

Edited for clarity

There's this from the home page https://www.dogzonline.com.au/why-buy-a-pedigree-pure-bred-dog.asp  

[Deeds]

It's a nice dog.  Looks like a large Portugese Water dog when clipped.  Doesn't look anything like a Bernese.   The owner is apparently a Vet.

[Lexon]

Despite its popularity, designer dog breeds are not officially recognized. Even if their parents are registered, the resulting offspring will remain undocumented. Another result can only be achieved if a new breed is bred for a long time. As a result, she will have nurseries and clubs of the breed. Someone here found something unusual and fun for breeding dogs of different breeds. For me, it's just a mockery of the animals that will be born. They may have problems with internal organs, airways, and so on. This is clearly described on thepets.net/ blog. In principle, breeding work on breeding new breeds is a lengthy process that requires time and more than one generation of breeding to eliminate breed defects, unacceptable traits and diseases, including genetic ones. But such experiments here are not "design." This is called "not respected."

Edited May 21, 2020 by Lexon

[moosmum]

Some  points regarding your post -

On 20/05/2020 at 9:27 PM, Lexon said:

Despite its popularity, designer dog breeds are not officially recognized. Even if their parents are registered, the resulting offspring will remain undocumented. Another result can only be achieved if a new breed is bred for a long time. As a result, she will have nurseries and clubs of the breed. Someone here found something unusual and fun for breeding dogs of different breeds. For me, it's just a mockery of the animals that will be born. They may have problems with internal organs, airways, and so on. This is clearly described on thepets.net/ blog. In principle, breeding work on breeding new breeds is a lengthy process that requires time and more than one generation of breeding to eliminate breed defects, unacceptable traits and diseases, including genetic ones. But such experiments here are not "design." This is called "not respected."

I think there are better ways of promoting Pedigree Dogs than placing all the value of a dog in its documentation.

This seems to re-enforce the idea that Pedigree breeders are elitist snobs and I don't think that does the the reputation of Pedigree breeders any favours. 

 

Breeding dogs 'for fun'  or money with no thought to their health or future is irresponsible, no matter who does it , but 'documentation' is no guarantee of a better motive and posts like this imply otherwise. Then we have buyers running into problems with their new pups being dismissed for 'not doing their home work'- Assuming that a breed profile and registered breeder is all thats needed. 

 

You can not understand the motive of any breeder with out researching the individual, their animals,  goals and methods of achieving them.

 

A pedigree is far from a guarantee of health or behaviour.

 

2nd,  breeding dogs can be done for for more immediate purposes than a future breed.   ie: Breed standards place no importance on an individual dogs abilities to respond to its individual living environment- unless that is the show ring. So certain traits and abilities may be lacking for for the dogs intended purpose, or not in the best combinations to achieve the dogs purpose as effectively as possible. Today, not in 20 years when those trait combinations  are no longer required by the breeder.

And if those trait combinations can most reliably be found in Pedigree dogs, that shouldn't make a mockery of their use. Better for Pedigree dogs to recognise the strength

and value of those traits to goals other than a 'standardised' design  for its own sake.

 

Otherwise, we risk limiting domestic dogs to increasingly fewer environments of Humanity.