White factored Border collie eye/ear issues?

[mufiski]

Hello,

 

I am considering rescuing a border collie cross, mum is white factored border collie, dad is unknown. Most of the pups have only black patches around the face and base of the tail (see photo when they were born, they're still the same color few weeks later, no cattle dog coloring). I have read that lack of pigment can cause deafness or blindness, I just wanted to know a bit more about it. Any good information around?

 

If I do the BAER test, would that ensure that the pup will have normal hearing for the rest of his/her life (except normal hearing loss) or can it be degenerative? And with the eyesight? I have read of some white factored dogs going blind at a young age?

 

Some pups have pigment around both ears and eye, are they still at a higher risk than other dogs?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Rebanne]

I'll give it ago though not my breed. My understanding of the BAER test is that if a pup has normal hearing then that's it. Normal hearing for life. As for eye problems I don't know.

 

[persephone]

What colour are their eyes ?if they have pale blue eyes they may have sight problems in bright light...but if their eyes are darkish, or green and they are navigating ok, I would guess at no problems .we have had working sheepdogs with similar pigment and no problems...thats my experience

[persephone]

P.S 
take one with a greater amount of pigment  Pink noses & ear edges get sunburnt

[Dogsfevr]

BAER testing just tells you they can hear ,they could be at the lower end or the higher but when done normally at 7/8 weeks off age prior to sale .
It will tell you if deaf,hearing in both ears or just one .
Some vets knock them out others don't cost of BAER can be very to realistic to very expensive & not an easy service to get done as it requires a specialist trained operator hence BAER testing aussie wide is far & few between  & one travels for it .



 

[asal]

I use Sydney Uni Vet clinic and Georgina Childs is awesome. uses the same machine as the childrens hospital uses far far more sensative than the cheaper model 

 

Strange place though, great pricing for the BAER hearing tests but dont get you puppies vaccinated there over a hundred and fourty  per pup? no discount for litters

[DogsAndTheMob]

Deafness in white-factored dogs is caused by a lack of pigment cells (melanocytes) in the inner ear - specifically the stria vascularis. Black patches on the ears probably increase the chance that there are pigment cells in the inner ear. However, there seem to be other genetic factors in play, and I’ve known a few border collies with white ears (and owned one), none of which have been deaf.

 

This form of deafness isn’t thought to worsen with age, and by the time the puppies are old enough to take home, you should be able to identify any that are deaf in both ears from their response to sounds. BAER testing would identify puppies that are deaf in one ear. Puppies that are deaf in one ear cope very well and , according to some research, twenty to thirty percent of dalmations are deaf in one ear. (Failure to hear commands may partly explain their reputation for stubbornness.) 

 

From what I’ve read, blindness is usually associated with the double-Merle genotype, rather than the piebald gene which these puppies probably show (as mum looks to be black and white, not Merle.) I’ve never heard of vision problems in white-factored border collies.

 

If “Dad” might be a border collie or border collie cross, and particularly if he might be related to the mother, I’d  be more concerned about three known nasty genetic diseases in the breed. The big advantage of getting a well-bred border collie is that the parents should have been DNA tested and at least one should not be a carrier for each disease. (Both parents need to be carriers for puppies to be affected.) In this case, where dad is unknown and mum (I’m guessing?) hasn’t been DNA tested, there is a risk that the puppies could be affected.

 

 

[Dogsfevr]

9 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

 

 

This form of deafness isn’t thought to worsen with age, and by the time the puppies are old enough to take home, you should be able to identify any that are deaf in both ears from their response to sounds. BAER testing would identify puppies that are deaf in one ear. Puppies that are deaf in one ear cope very well and , according to some research, twenty to thirty percent of dalmations are deaf in one ear. (Failure to hear commands may partly explain their reputation for stubbornness.) 

 

 

 

Sorry but your info is not correct about being able to tell .Pups are smart followers ,people often question if there dog is deaf as they claim it doesn't listen to them & they have full hearing .The only way of knowing is BAER testing .
I own a breed that requires BAER testing ,it is done early to ensure any before being home the status is known & ideally before the pup /s are fully sold

[mufiski]

Apologies for the late response, I was expecting an email notification.

 

Thank you all very much for your replies. All puppies have dark eyes and black eye lids and nose. So no sunburning risk there, but I'll definitely do the BAER test. 

 

I am less scared now knowing it is not a degenerative issue, thanks!

[mufiski]

On 20/05/2019 at 6:40 AM, DogsAndTheMob said:

If “Dad” might be a border collie or border collie cross, and particularly if he might be related to the mother, I’d  be more concerned about three known nasty genetic diseases in the breed. The big advantage of getting a well-bred border collie is that the parents should have been DNA tested and at least one should not be a carrier for each disease. (Both parents need to be carriers for puppies to be affected.) In this case, where dad is unknown and mum (I’m guessing?) hasn’t been DNA tested, there is a risk that the puppies could be affected.

 

 

I could always test the pup for those genetic diseases and be 100% sure no matter if the parents were tested or not. That way I don't relay on the breeder telling me the truth (sadly too many dodgy breeders around). And too many homeless dogs being put down that I can’t justify 

Edited May 29, 2019 by mufiski

[Tassie]

20 hours ago, mufiski said:

I could always test the pup for those genetic diseases and be 100% sure no matter if the parents were tested or not. That way I don't relay on the breeder telling me the truth (sadly too many dodgy breeders around). And too many homeless dogs being put down that I can’t justify 

Since it seems highly unlikely that the parents were tested prior to the mating, it would definitely be worth your while.   One of the defects is likely to lead to puppies fading and eventually dying in the first 3 months   (TNS   Trapped Neutrophil Syndrome)   Another is a defect in the back of the eye (CEA Collie Eye Anomaly)  -  mildly affected dogs have little to no problem .. my previous BC girl (born before the genetic test was available) was CEA affected - picked up by the eye tests that good breeders did then at 6 weeks - but went on to compete at the top level in Agility.)  The real kicker for you and the one that is totally worth testing for is CL  Ceroid Lipofuscinosis  -   because symptoms do not start manifesting till about 18 months, and affected dogs cannot recover - they have to be euthanised . usually before about 24 months.