Itchy dog

[Kazm]

I just want some opinions and maybe some good advice.

I have spent time at the vets this morning with Miss Molly. She has become an itchy dog lately and if left she would chew and scratch enough to make little sores so I am constantly at her. Mainly scratching and chewing at her back region. Her skin though is not red or inflamed anywhere. 

A month ago she was itchy so I took her to the vets and she was given a course of prednisolone. This worked almost instantly but within a few weeks of stopping she was right back to scratching. Nothing that I can think of has changed, her diet, plants in the yard, areas we walk in etc. I took her today and the vet I saw was in my opinion very thorough and helpful with my multitude of questions.  Obviously she is allergic to something  whether  it is food,  environmental or airborne. Always difficult to pinpoint what I guess. The vet seems to think it will be an ongoing issue. She has prescribed another course of prednisolone and the main object is too get it down to the lowest dose over the next few weeks and see how she is and then maybe keep her on the low dose. She also took a blood test and urine test. (Waiting still for the results of those)Of course I am willing to do anything to help my girl but I really aren’t too happy with her being on medication full time. 

So I guess what I’d like to know from you all is, is it ok to have her on the prednisolone full time or how has anyone else dealt with an itchy dog.

[persephone]

Itchy dogs ............ sent to try us , as Mum would say . LOL .
Obviously a worry , and a constant irritation for both of you . 
Have you considered taking her to a Bowen person or Dog Chiro ? Reason being , mild pain radiating out from those muscles along her spine..or from a disk  may irritate her ...like the sensation from a TENS machine ( or ecollar) and cause her to try & relieve it . MAYBE ? 
Other than that - just go thru absolutely everything which may contact that part of her back - a particular shrub- a towel - a piece of furniture, dog clothing , harness, any spray in the house which may drift down .... the list is awfully long

Been there done that , had a dog on Prednil for life (well, 10 yrs) he was allergic to grasses..several sorts ..and had some anxiety . Chiro helped with the latter to a degree , prednil helped with the former . He got fat as he became a geriatric ...and that was about all ...

[Kazm]

Thanks for your info. Definitely sent to try us. Just so annoying. 

I actually had wondered if she had a pain that she was trying to get to and relieve although that’s the one thing I did forget to mention at the vet visit. Although I have poked and prodded the poor girl all over trying to see if she was hurting but she didn’t batter an eyelid, no reactions at all so maybe not but it’s worth mentioning next vet visit. 

@persephone the dog you had on prednisolone for life, did it have any side effects from it at all ?  That’s what worries me......

[persephone]

1 hour ago, Kazm said:

 the dog you had on prednisolone for life, did it have any side effects from it at all

Not really ..just a tendency to put on weight . He lived into his teens , was always very active ...

[Kazm]

1 hour ago, persephone said:

Not really ..just a tendency to put on weight . He lived into his teens , was always very active ...

Thanks. I am such a worry wart. I will just keep an eye on Molly and fingers crossed the itchys go and she stays healthy. 

[Dogsfevr]

No way would I have a dog on prednisone for itching and given other alternatives I’m surprised the vet has put the dog on another long course .

 

 

It would need to be the last choice for us and for a Mini Schnauzer .Some dogs never have side effects,some it’s a drug scenario of quality over quantity of life but potential long term side effects can be devastating.

 

 

Sore dog will certainly chew ,poking and prodding will not show up reasons to chew .

Some will chew a spot because the nerves tingle there but the soreness is elsewhere .

Anal glands will make a dog chew .

 

Dogs can react to current food ,new cleaning products,carpet cleaner ,dog coats ,change of grasses etc outside .

Even a flea can make a dog itchy for some time after .

 

Anxious dogs can chew ,change of home life 

So what do you feed 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Dogsfevr

[persephone]

3 hours ago, Kazm said:

Thanks. I am such a worry wart. I will just keep an eye on Molly and fingers crossed the itchys go and she stays healthy. 

Itchys don't usually just 'go'...best to find a reason for them, although it takes a lot of detective work!

[Kazm]

12 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

No way would I have a dog on prednisone for itching and given other alternatives I’m surprised the vet has put the dog on another long course .

 

 

It would need to be the last choice for us and for a Mini Schnauzer .Some dogs never have side effects,some it’s a drug scenario of quality over quantity of life but potential long term side effects can be devastating.

 

 

Sore dog will certainly chew ,poking and prodding will not show up reasons to chew .

Some will chew a spot because the nerves tingle there but the soreness is elsewhere .

Anal glands will make a dog chew .

 

Dogs can react to current food ,new cleaning products,carpet cleaner ,dog coats ,change of grasses etc outside .

Even a flea can make a dog itchy for some time after .

 

Anxious dogs can chew ,change of home life 

So what do you feed 

Why would you not give prednisone for itchiness and also to mini schnauzers? I am after any advice and if there are reasons I would like to discuss them with my vet. I only want the very best for my girl and will do or try anything. 

 

I do know that dogs obviously can react to any changes but absolutely nothing has changed. I haven’t changed cleaning products, washing products, nothing inside and the yard hasn’t changed either. And definitely no fleas. I once had a schnauzer allergic to flea bites so know all about that. It is difficult and yes I will be trying to pinpoint what is affecting her.

 

I feed her cooked chicken fillets,  vegetables, some kangaroo meat and sardines alternating these through the week.  Eggs, cheese, and rice occasionally. Dry biscuits maybe once a week. And a lamb off cut bone twice a week. This has always been the normal for her. 

 

I am happy to say that this morning there is a noticeable improvement already.  She slept well and seems very happy and bouncing around playfully. Have been for an hours walk in the rain already and have started the day off nicely. 

Also her blood and urine tests came back fine.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Kazm

[Dogsfevr]

Shes on prednil so ofcourse she is happy .
Your vet should have explained fully the potential side effects ,your vet should have offered potential options .Im not a fan of vets that just send people of with prednil ,it is a drug with side effects .
Minis are a breed are at higher risk of Pancreatitis &  diabetes which can relate back to drug use ,hence why certain meds should really be a last resort when no options exist .
Prednil & its family also affect the immune system hence we prefer to not add to the risk .


I think you need to understand there doesn't have to be changes for a dog to have issues,dogs can react to things one has always used so we as owners need to think outside the box not just think nothings changed ,something has changed for her .
I have a dog after 8 years who is allergic to chicken .
It could be something flowering on her walk ,her diet isn't what we would consider ideal for a mini in the essential healthy fatty acids .Minis diet is very important to them compared due to naturally having a higher cholesterol level already which is normal but the reason they can be at higher risk for certain health issues.
It could be the chicken,it could be the lamb ,it may not be food related at all.
It could be the shampoo you use as again what was fine once can suddenly not suit know.
If you use a groomer they may spray her in a new scented product
 
 

[_PL_]

Pred is a steroid, so great short term, almost instant relief. Long term it can have side effects like weakened immune system,  muscle wastage and thinning hair.  So getting to the root of the itchies is normally best. 

 

For many itchy dogs, if the other potential causes can be eliminated we use a 6 - 8 wk exclusion diet and no treats. Do you have access to Prime 100? 

We eliminate all poultry, this includes the poultry in dry food. Easiest way is using the Prime 100 single protein roo. 

 

Advanced food allergies can cause yeasty skin, hot or slimy or infected ears, chewing of the feet, scratching around the mouth. Sometimes gummy eyes.  At the beginning it can look like a contact or flea allergy.

 

Apoquel has a few bad reviews but is the best medical alternative to preds and is great for seasonal/environmental allergies because you can't exactly stop them from coming into contact with things like grass or pollen.  

 

Then as dogsfevr says, could be one of many things.   Go back over what might have changed. 

[Kazm]

1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

Shes on prednil so ofcourse she is happy .
Your vet should have explained fully the potential side effects ,your vet should have offered potential options .Im not a fan of vets that just send people of with prednil ,it is a drug with side effects .
Minis are a breed are at higher risk of Pancreatitis &  diabetes which can relate back to drug use ,hence why certain meds should really be a last resort when no options exist .
Prednil & its family also affect the immune system hence we prefer to not add to the risk .


I think you need to understand there doesn't have to be changes for a dog to have issues,dogs can react to things one has always used so we as owners need to think outside the box not just think nothings changed ,something has changed for her .
I have a dog after 8 years who is allergic to chicken .
It could be something flowering on her walk ,her diet isn't what we would consider ideal for a mini in the essential healthy fatty acids .Minis diet is very important to them compared due to naturally having a higher cholesterol level already which is normal but the reason they can be at higher risk for certain health issues.
It could be the chicken,it could be the lamb ,it may not be food related at all.
It could be the shampoo you use as again what was fine once can suddenly not suit know.
If you use a groomer they may spray her in a new scented product
 
 

Thankyou.  The vet did talk about side effects and did mention pancreatitis and diabetes. This is why I came here asking for info and advice. I am trying to obviously work out what the best course of action is and I can now go back and discuss it properly. Sometimes when things are put to you and you try to make decisions on the spot it’s difficult. 

I also understand that dogs can start reacting to things over time ( like the 8 year old dog you mentioned) We discussed that also.  I will consider her diet and work on it. What do you suggest a mini should eat ? Over the 20 years of owning mini schnauzers I have seen a few different  vets and none of them have said I was feeding them wrong. Willing to change though.  

Her shampoo, yes I have been using the same one for quite a while. I could change that too and as for the groomer spraying her with something different - well no. I’m her groomer and always have been.

[juice]

I’m interested in this , one of mine has just started to get red under her armpits , around mouth , between back legs and smells yeasty and chewing feet . 

Nothing has changed either , antihistamines worked for a few days then it came back . I was considering Pred too as next step . 

[_PL_]

Juice I made this a while ago, it was on our website re a dog with food allergy. I just wish I had taken 'after' photos!

There was also rashing around her groin and corners of her mouth. She was quite advanced though so yours won't look like this but you can see where it starts. 
 

 

[persephone]

37 minutes ago, juice said:

I’m interested in this , one of mine has just started to get red under her armpits , around mouth , between back legs and smells yeasty and chewing feet . 

Nothing has changed either , antihistamines worked for a few days then it came back . I was considering Pred too as next step . 

At least with yeast, dietary changes, cutting out carbs can help. The old malaseb used to work a treat when done thoroughly and regularly..and using canex rinse in bedding final rinse also helps.

[Kazm]

36 minutes ago, Powerlegs said:

Juice I made this a while ago, it was on our website re a dog with food allergy. I just wish I had taken 'after' photos!

There was also rashing around her groin and corners of her mouth. She was quite advanced though so yours won't look like this but you can see where it starts. 
 

 

Interesting. Molly has never had any redness or rashing. The only time is when left to chew or scratch she can make little sores. She just randomly scratches her sides and around her neck and tries to chew her back ( she will roll on the ground rubbing at times) Sometimes chews at her front legs and feet. 

@Powerlegs in your opinion does Molly’s sound like a food allergy?

I’m seriously thinking of changing her diet. Maybe eliminating the chicken to start with. Thinking of this due to Dogsfevr saying she had an 8 year old allergic to chicken. It’s what Molly eats most of. I need to do something ???

Edited May 17, 2019 by Kazm

[persephone]

Oh.Originally you just mentioned her back...but with these other areas , ie: pretty much everywhere- that does sound more like an allergy.

Perhaps you would be better served by finding a vet who can help you with testing for allergies? Dogs can be allergic to almost anything- from food colourings to certain animal proteins, and a carefully planned and carried out approach will be needed....good communication with someone knowledgeable is essential

There are folks on here who have done the elimination diet to test for food allergy... 

[Kazm]

42 minutes ago, persephone said:

Oh.Originally you just mentioned her back...but with these other areas , ie: pretty much everywhere- that does sound more like an allergy.

Perhaps you would be better served by finding a vet who can help you with testing for allergies? Dogs can be allergic to almost anything- from food colourings to certain animal proteins, and a carefully planned and carried out approach will be needed....good communication with someone knowledgeable is essential

There are folks on here who have done the elimination diet to test for food allergy... 

Sorry. Sometimes my mind works faster than I type. Didn’t mean to be misleading. My current vet is willing to work closely with us and has mentioned specialists who deal with pet allergies. I guess I would like to try a few things first. Just was after opinions etc and have certainly got info I can relate back to her and I guess work out a plan of some sort. My biggest concern was being on the pred for a while. I was interested to find out if others had their dogs on it for any length of time and how they were. 

[_PL_]

22 minutes ago, Kazm said:

 

@Powerlegs in your opinion does Molly’s sound like a food allergy?

 

I really don't know.  I'm only going by the rescues we get in that are mostly pretty full-on itchy/smelly/scabby or hairless by the time we get them.   I'm not good with early warning stages at all and we always have good vets to hold our hands also.
We have had ---
Demodectic and Pyoderma. No sarcoptic or ringworm so far fingers crossed.
Contact allergy: Common. shows up on the belly and feet if it's grass or plants - or even flowering lawn grass after some good rain, you can hardly see the flowering but it makes a very strong pollen that sends people running for the telfast. Does she roll on her back on the grass?

Flea allergy: Common. just one little flea can cause a full body reaction as it crawls and bites. Itchies all over. Have you had a strange cat visit your yard?  They are a handy vector for spreading fleas.

And food allergy: Common. It won't hurt to do an exclusion diet anyway. Removing the chicken sounds like a good plan. Traditional diet often starts with just two low allergy ingredients for 6 - 8 wks, if it's food you'll see improvement by then. From that point you can add an extra ingredient at a time and watch for a flare-up. 

 

Saying all that, Dogsfevr sounds like she knows a lot about schnauzers and could be in a better position to advise you. There are specialists too if you want to go that route. 

[Kazm]

Thanks @Powerlegs All very useful info. And yes she does roll on her back on the grass but there isn’t much to our grass. It’s very thin and awful really. (Lack of rain and water. ) 

One question -  and yes I will be speaking to my vet also - but obviously I need to run this course of prednisolone but if I go with an exclusion diet how will I know if it’s working or whether it’s still the drugs in her system. 

[persephone]

Exclusion diets etc are best done off meds so effects can be noticed.AFAIK