Potty training help needed

[koalablue]

We have a 12 week old Pomeranian who sleeps in an extremely large laundry which has a baby gate. She has an inside toilet tray with artificial grass on top of kitty litter which she took to instantly for poos from the time we got her when she was aged 8 weeks.  Every morning I'm greeted with a poo in her toilet tray and 1 or 2 wees on the floor.  The laundry and the entire back of the house has a tiled floor so cleaning up her wees isn't a problem, but getting her to potty outside isn't working out well at all. 

 

Since she was 10 weeks old, I've been taking her outside on the lawn for 15-30 minutes but she just wants to play and bite her leash.  I take her outside as soon as she wakes,  about 15 minutes after meals, immediately before she has a nap and I play outside with her for about 30-60 minutes each morning and afternoon.  She rarely does anything while she's outside but will invariably do a wee shortly after coming inside, and often does a very small wee 5 minutes after a normal one.  I tried taking her toilet tray outside but that didn't work at all. 

 

She's an extremely high energy little dog and is very strong-willed.  Her other training, sit, stay, down etc is coming along brilliantly and I was able to get her to do those things after only 1 to 2 days with the aid of tiny treats and thought that would work, but no, she just holds on until she's back inside no matter how long we're outside. She never gets in trouble for her "mistakes" but it's hard to praise her because we rarely catch her doing anything.

 

I'm running out of ideas and would be really grateful for any suggestions.

[juice]

Your making the going outside part way too much fun and exciting to think of weeing.

Take her out after she wakes up, not before  she goes to sleep, unless its last thing at night.

Go outside and just ignore her, walk her around, patience i the key.

[Dogsfevr]

Pup doesn’t understand that’s its suppose to toilet outside because it’s been rewarded for going inside by the indoor toilet .

Pups idea of outside is playing ,fun and attached to you .

Is your plan to not use the indoor loo at all ?

 

You need to go back to basics if you want pup to go outside .

 

[koalablue]

1 hour ago, juice said:

Your making the going outside part way too much fun and exciting to think of weeing.

Take her out after she wakes up, not before  she goes to sleep, unless its last thing at night.

Go outside and just ignore her, walk her around, patience i the key.

When I take her outside to potty, that's not when we play and have fun.  She's on a leash and I take her to the spot where I want her to go.  She just walks around sniffing the ground but that's it.  I tried a second spot but the end result was the same.

 

Yes, I take her outside as soon as she wakes.  She sleeps 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the afternoon, and because there's always a wee on the floor when she wakes, I thought I should give her another opportunity outside.  I do take her out last thing at night.

 

I have tons of time and plenty of patience but I still haven't been making progress.  Maybe she just needs to mature more.  I know it can take around 6 months, it's just that she learns everything else so quickly and I haven't had so many puddles with other puppies in the past.  Maybe my memory isn't as good as it used to be. 

[koalablue]

24 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

Pup doesn’t understand that’s its suppose to toilet outside because it’s been rewarded for going inside by the indoor toilet .

Pups idea of outside is playing ,fun and attached to you .

Is your plan to not use the indoor loo at all ?

 

You need to go back to basics if you want pup to go outside .

 

I agree that she doesn't realise she's supposed to toilet outside, but I'm not sure what you mean that she's rewarded for going inside.  Most playtime is during the day and is quite separate from going outside to toilet.  She tears around the yard off the leash during playtime and runs so fast when we play fetch that she often does somersaults!  She's already very attached to me and I've tried various things in an attempt to make her realise that when she's on the leash it's not to play.

 

My plan is to ultimately not use the indoor loo.  She has a doggy door but I have to make sure she can't open it at night because

1) we have a lot of possums in our area and she'd charge at one if she saw one.  You can imagine how dangerous that could be, and

2) we also have plenty of owls and some are very large.  I don't want her to become dinner for one of them.

 

Finally, we have a pair of wedge tail eagles that fly overhead twice a day and they make me very nervous because she's still so tiny.  At the moment, the eagles have a baby and they're always on the lookout for food.  I just feel that I can't let her out of my sight day or night at this stage. 

 

I'm not one of those over-protective mummies, it's just that there are real dangers around my neck of the woods and I don't want her to come to any harm.  This is my 7th Pom so I'm quite used to their ways.  This little pup is unlike any of the others and is totally fearless, hence my concern. 

 

Do you feel I should continue keeping her on a leash for outside potty?  That's what I've always done in the past and it worked.  I'm happy to try anything else you suggest.  Where there's a will there's a way.

[Dogsfevr]

I train my puppies to toilet onleash but they learn to go outside before I add the leash .

 

The dog is rewarded for going inside because that is what the puppy loo is teaching it  so it hasn’t learnt outside is the loo not inside .

I would personally make a small puppy pen area ,place pup in there giving its toilet word or let off leash and just sit down calmly or walk about calmly,I would allow pup to toilet offleash u til it’s got the idea 

[sandgrubber]

Additional thought: 12 weeks is pretty young.  My 14 week Springer simply can't make it through the night... so I pick up poo from inside.  I'm sure she'll grow out of it.  It might help if I fed her at 6 rather than 8pm. 

[Tassie]

Reading what you said about the small wee after the bigger one …. I guess my first thought would be a vet check, to make sure that there is no mechanical  issue.    I totally get what you're saying about the dangers outside.   the only solutions to that if you wanted to leave her outside unsupervised for a while would be a roofed Exercise pen.

 

Does she ever do a wee on the fake grass ..   if so, I would get a few more squares and put them outside.

 

You haven't said if she stops to wee while she's having playtime outside.  If so, has she got a preference for substrate // dirt, short grass, long grass, under shade … etc.  etc.   I would just walk slowly with her on leash when you first get her up in the morning ..(be ahead of her waking up by herself), and just keep doing boring walking .. and observe.   (So let her choose the spot, not you.

[koalablue]

On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 1:11 AM, Dogsfevr said:

I train my puppies to toilet onleash but they learn to go outside before I add the leash .

 

The dog is rewarded for going inside because that is what the puppy loo is teaching it  so it hasn’t learnt outside is the loo not inside .

I would personally make a small puppy pen area ,place pup in there giving its toilet word or let off leash and just sit down calmly or walk about calmly,I would allow pup to toilet offleash u til it’s got the idea 

Thank you Dogsfevr.  In the past I've always trained my pups to go outside on leash, but I took your advice, sat down, and let her run around.  Lo and behold, she did a poo, and she's only done a few of those outside.  As soon as I brought her in, she thought the family room would be a good place to wee, and that's always been the main problem.  No matter how long she's outside, whether it's to toilet or play, I almost never see her wee outside.  I'm sure we'll get there eventually because all my past pups did.  I'm probably in too much of a hurry because I want to leave the intense heat outside.

[koalablue]

On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 5:43 AM, sandgrubber said:

Additional thought: 12 weeks is pretty young.  My 14 week Springer simply can't make it through the night... so I pick up poo from inside.  I'm sure she'll grow out of it.  It might help if I fed her at 6 rather than 8pm. 

Yes, I think I may be expecting a bit too much from such a young puppy.  I can't delay her evening meal because I think she has a time clock in her head.  She knows when I'm preparing our dinner that I'll be doing hers too. 

[koalablue]

On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 4:08 PM, Tassie said:

Reading what you said about the small wee after the bigger one …. I guess my first thought would be a vet check, to make sure that there is no mechanical  issue.    I totally get what you're saying about the dangers outside.   the only solutions to that if you wanted to leave her outside unsupervised for a while would be a roofed Exercise pen.

 

Does she ever do a wee on the fake grass ..   if so, I would get a few more squares and put them outside.

 

You haven't said if she stops to wee while she's having playtime outside.  If so, has she got a preference for substrate // dirt, short grass, long grass, under shade … etc.  etc.   I would just walk slowly with her on leash when you first get her up in the morning ..(be ahead of her waking up by herself), and just keep doing boring walking .. and observe.   (So let her choose the spot, not you.

Thanks Tassie.  I don't think she has a medical problem because she can hold on for a long time.  It's more a case of preferring to wee inside at the moment.  Yesterday she didn't have one accident inside but today she's had 3.  Even with the dangers outside, during the day it's far too hot for her to be outside for long as we're experiencing a heatwave.  She does wee on the fake grass inside about 30% of the time.  That's why I took her toilet tray outside but that didn't work out.  I've only seen her wee outside maybe 4 or 5 times and they were all during playtime.  The leash is a total failure at the moment because all she wants to do is bite it, so it's not a case of either of us choosing the spot.  I know the general area where she likes to go and that's where I take her when she's on leash.  So far she's only gone during playtime.  She loves exploring the garden and it's quite possible she goes there but she may well be out of my line of sight.  Tomorrow's another day.

[sheena]

My suggestion would be to build her a little enclosure outside in the shade.  When you think she should go for a wee, which from memory is about 20 minutes after eating...someone correct me if I am wrong...take her outside & pop her in the enclosure.  Stand back & watch & as soon as she squats & starts to pee, lots of praise & a big, party with yummy treats.  When I had this problem with my male dog, I put a belly band on him when he was inside...he never weed inside again.  So maybe put a nappy on her when she is inside. But I would try the first suggestion first.

 

[Dogsfevr]

16 hours ago, koalablue said:

Thank you Dogsfevr.  In the past I've always trained my pups to go outside on leash, but I took your advice, sat down, and let her run around.  Lo and behold, she did a poo, and she's only done a few of those outside.  As soon as I brought her in, she thought the family room would be a good place to wee, and that's always been the main problem.  No matter how long she's outside, whether it's to toilet or play, I almost never see her wee outside.  I'm sure we'll get there eventually because all my past pups did.  I'm probably in too much of a hurry because I want to leave the intense heat outside.

In this case i would come straight inside & then go straight outside again,she will get it  BUT i think you need to decide at present if she is going to wee inside then making sure she goes where you want her too .
So if your happy for her to be indoor loo trained & also outside then really focus on the getting it right inside especially as summer & the birds are here for a few more weeks

 

[koalablue]

On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 1:27 PM, Dogsfevr said:

In this case i would come straight inside & then go straight outside again,she will get it  BUT i think you need to decide at present if she is going to wee inside then making sure she goes where you want her too .
So if your happy for her to be indoor loo trained & also outside then really focus on the getting it right inside especially as summer & the birds are here for a few more weeks

 

I thought I'd persevere for a week or so before updating.  I tried coming in and then going straight back out but that didn't work, so it was back to the drawing board and retrying everything.  I'm happy to say that things are definitely improving.  When I take her outside first thing after waking she will now wee nearly every the time, and she's doing her poos outside too.  I still have to watch her carefully when she's inside regarding her wees.  Sometimes she will race to her indoor toilet but I can't count on that yet so I'm taking her outside every 30 minutes now and that seems to be helping.  I've noticed that there are can be tiny puddles when she gets excited and I think this has a lot to do with her frequency.  Now that she's started going outside several times a day, I think the message is starting to get through so I'm giving her a lot more opportunities, and as she's a treat-driven puppy, lots of treats.  Thanks for all your suggestions.

[Tassie]

Oh well done @koalablue.  That sounds like  huge  progress.    You're doing everything you can to help her and show her what you like her to do, and it sounds as though she;s really responding beautifully.   (From experience, it can take them a while to be 100% reliable, so you'll need to be monitoring for a while yet, but you're definitely on the right track.     In case you're not aware, the excitement and/or submissive dribble wees are not really under the dog's control, so have a think about whether that's what's happening, and then just see if you can make visitors coming etc. a calmer experience .. that will help her to not experience the involuntary dribbles.     

You should be so proud of yourself and your dear little one. 

[koalablue]

On ‎6‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 1:13 PM, Tassie said:

Oh well done @koalablue.  That sounds like  huge  progress.    You're doing everything you can to help her and show her what you like her to do, and it sounds as though she;s really responding beautifully.   (From experience, it can take them a while to be 100% reliable, so you'll need to be monitoring for a while yet, but you're definitely on the right track.     In case you're not aware, the excitement and/or submissive dribble wees are not really under the dog's control, so have a think about whether that's what's happening, and then just see if you can make visitors coming etc. a calmer experience .. that will help her to not experience the involuntary dribbles.     

You should be so proud of yourself and your dear little one. 

Thank you Tassie.  I am proud of my little girl. When she does little puddles, it's not excitement caused by visitors, but rather when we're playing indoors and she's having lots of fun.  She's wants to play all the time and will keep it up until she's exhausted ... or I am.  If she's awake, she's on the go every minute, but it's just lovely having a puppy who finds everything so exciting. Yesterday afternoon she "helped me" do some weeding in the garden and this kept her entertained for half an hour or so. She makes a game out of absolutely anything. 

[persephone]

It's all sounding good