Feeding / Food aggression

[Boronia]

16 hours ago, Tassie said:

A few thoughts.    This is a fairly unusual behaviour in a CKCS I would have thought.   So it would be ringing alarm bells for me.  

Have you discussed it with his breeders .. they may have come across it somewhere in the breed before and may have some ideas.   And because of his breed, I would be cheking whether the lines behind him were clear as far as possible to determine, of Syringomyelia.

And as far as crate training goes..... I would be considering giving it a go.   If he loves his food, then it would really be a matter of putting his food in his crate when he is not in the room, then opening the door and leaving him to it.

Is your VB a trainer as well?  Sometimes VBs who also train can have some really valuable suggestions.

.

I was thinking this same thing Tassie, it is sooo unusual for this breed to be aggressive, is there a fairly simple way  Syringomyelia can be tested for rather than having to go through a MRI?

[Tassie]

7 hours ago, Boronia said:

I was thinking this same thing Tassie, it is sooo unusual for this breed to be aggressive, is there a fairly simple way  Syringomyelia can be tested for rather than having to go through a MRI?

Aargh .. typed reply, hit wrong button .. lost it.    Anyhow .. I really don't know much about SM .. just read up on it a bit because of friends with Cavs and knowing a few breeders.  I think it's pretty rare here, and AFAIK it requires MRI.   Reading a bit more about it yesterday, it was probably a red herring, since an affected dog would likely be showing more symptoms.     Being the worry wort that I am, if this were my dog, I would probably be requesting a neuro specialist consult, because of the OCD.

I do feel sorry for the OP, seeing this behaviour in an otherwise sweet dog of a sweet breed.    I would certainly be trying to bring the appointments forward, although in view of the workload, that could be difficult.   It's very stressful all round, and anything that would reduce the time those stress hormones are circulating in the boy, would have to be a plus.   Hence why I would be looking at a crate or at least a solid xpen.

[RuralPug]

I am confused. Reading about what happens when you offer the food - do I have it correctly that your dog attacks you when you offer him food of any kind? This is not what I am used to when people use the term "food aggression". They normally mean resource guarding of the food, which is not actually happening here - unless it is happening mega, with the dog attacking you to get what he considers 'his' food? 

I am glad that you are seeing a VB and a behaviorist. I wouldn't know where to start, I guess to habituate the dog to seeing food and food givers as good things.

In regard to your original question, can you use doors in your current home the same way that you used doors in your last home?

For example, encourage the dog to go into the bathroom (with a toy or something) and close the door. place his prepared food down in the laundry and close that door. Then let your boy out of the bathroom, and get him to the laundry door (no baby gate) and once he is in, close the door and let him eat in peace.

The advantage with crate training is that the dog can eat in the crate and feel safe there. The food can be prepared and placed in the crate and then the dog let out of wherever he was safely held while the food prep was happening, he can then go to the crate and eat. But you would need to do crate training first, using a tug toy or some other device he enjoys.

[Guest]

Not judging at all, mate. 

It sounds like you’re doing your best in an unusual situation. 

And as far as I can see, the inconvenience to you aside, there’s nothing hugely “wrong” with a dog who is food guarding provided it can be managed. 

 

No, you can’t get all the details of your day in - I totally get that. Given that you’re working with a vet, Possibly the best you can hope for from a forum is a general idea of a suggestion to adapt and/or implement.

 

i don’t understand the need people see for doggy shrinks nowadays - to me, seems though everything that deviates slightly from breed standard warrants a trip to the shrink. But then again, a lot of people would possibly disagree with my belief that random children might wanna not bother a dog who is eating *shrug* each to their own. 

 

Take what you need from here and try not to feel like people are judging you, I know it can come across that way!! But hopefully some of the suggestions help somewhat. 

[Two Best Dogs!]

Your situation sounds really complex and unique - but you’re getting in the right people to help you manage it best and identify what is going on. 

 

On ways to feed and keep separated for your safety and other dogs safety - a remote food dispenser might help reduce the safety risk as you do not need to manually put a bowl of food down. Would still get the food ready out of the dogs sight until your VB can help. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Two Best Dogs!

[HunterDoggy]

On 15/01/2019 at 11:53 AM, Snook said:

I think the concerns people have expressed about adding a second dog to the family when there is such a significant aggression issue with your first dog, aren't unreasonable. I understand from what you're saying that your first dog only demonstrates aggressive behaviour when food is involved, and is calm and not a threat the rest of the time, but the level of aggression you've described around food is very extreme. That being said, you have your second dog now and the focus needs to be on keeping everyone safe rather than second guessing your decision. 

 

I've been reading this thread since you started it but not commented until now, as I've just read a post in a Facebook group that made me think of your situation. When people are saying your new dog's safety is at risk, I suspect they're talking about the potential for your management strategies to fail at some point when food is present, not because you're a bad dog owner, but because we're all human and can be distracted or make mistakes. The post that prompted me to reply to you was by a person who is both a dog trainer and a vet nurse. She has one dog who has food based aggression issues and she made a mistake with the strict management procedures she's had in place for the dog, and it killed one of her other dogs over food. This is absolutely tragic and heartbreaking and really demonstrates how easily educated, vigilant dog owners can make an error that has devastating consequences. 

 

Please seek some professional help from a really reputable trainer and potentially also from a good vet behaviourist. I also second the suggestions to get your first dog tested for any medical issues that may be behind this behaviour. I don't know anything about the breed or the condition that has been raised by those more knowledgeable than me but it would definitely be worth investigating as part of getting your dog assessed and getting some professional help on board. I wish you all the best with your situation. 

You’ve told me to please seek help from a trainer and a vet behavourist but as mentioned multiple times in this thread I have already stated I have done both of these already. I was looking for tips anyone may have in the time between now and our next appointment.

 

My dog has had a full examination by his vet, that was the first thing we did before and also after his first appointment with the VB. 

 

Thanks anyway.

[HunterDoggy]

I appreciate everyones comments and I have read them all but I think for now we will just have to continue how we are and wait until our next appointment with the behaviourist. It is a very hard and stressful situation and I live with it everyday. It’s hard to explain to people online to make them understand the situation so I think it’s best I just don’t post about it anymore as it just causes me more stress. Thanks for your comments. If you wish to write more replies then feel free but I don’t think I’ll be back to reply. Thanks.

[Maddy]

16 hours ago, HunterDoggy said:

I appreciate everyones comments and I have read them all but I think for now we will just have to continue how we are and wait until our next appointment with the behaviourist. It is a very hard and stressful situation and I live with it everyday. It’s hard to explain to people online to make them understand the situation so I think it’s best I just don’t post about it anymore as it just causes me more stress. Thanks for your comments. If you wish to write more replies then feel free but I don’t think I’ll be back to reply. Thanks.

HD, I've had some extremely resource possessive foster dogs and I can absolutely understand your stress. 

Managing dogs like that is NOT simple. It's stressful, it's constant and one slip can result in someone getting hurt, so there is always that underlying fear of something going badly wrong, even after considerable work on the problem. 

Personally, I found a covered crate to be the best way to keep them a bit calmer. Dog and food go in the crate, cover is one with just the front panel open, dog doesn't get let out until they've definitely finished. On top of this, crate was placed in a corner, to limit the directions of approach by people/other dogs. This means the dog only really has one direction to watch and they feel a bit safer*. The other advantage of the crate is that it gives you a safe barrier for training. The idea is that the dog can gradually learn that people/other dogs near their food = better food and/or treats. Pick his highest value food/treat and use that to help him associate your presence near his bowl with delicious treats. It can be a very slow, frustrating process, but if you have good training help, you're already ahead. 

 

*Should point out that this area needs to be tightly managed, so that people/other dogs aren't just wandering past. The crate should be his safe little cave, not a trap that allows his competition to "corner" him.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, HunterDoggy said:

I appreciate everyones comments and I have read them all but I think for now we will just have to continue how we are and wait until our next appointment with the behaviourist. It is a very hard and stressful situation and I live with it everyday. It’s hard to explain to people online to make them understand the situation so I think it’s best I just don’t post about it anymore as it just causes me more stress. Thanks for your comments. If you wish to write more replies then feel free but I don’t think I’ll be back to reply. Thanks.

Good luck, mate. Hang in there.

 

edited to add my apologies for all the comments telling you to go to a behaviourist even though you’re already doing so, and for the fact that none of us were much help. 

 

If OP doesn’t read this but others do, may I suggest we all try to not be quite so judgy-judgy  and actually try to offer practical solutions in future? Which some people have; good work, people  (I know I was unable to come up with anything revolutionary) but otherwise, maybe try reading the full post before dropping pointers like “go get thee a behaviourist” when that’s something OP said they’re already doing. 

People are stressed out when they reach out for advice on here (yes, I realise I am being judgy right now ;p ) and it really, really isn’t any help to cop holier than thou attitude or read the same thing over & over. 

My apologies to those who are genuinely well-meaning, which is likely most of you, I just think that when it comes to helping a stressed out person with a problem, we can all try a bit harder to at least not add further stress. And to be...slightly better ;) #bebest ;p

Edited January 17, 2019 by Guest