HunterDoggy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (Warning - Lost post, sorry!) I’ve written posts before about my dog who has been diagnosed with OCD and anxiety, he gets very aggressive (will bite) when it comes to feeding time. He does get aggressive when it comes to other things but feeing is our main issue. He is on medication but we don’t think it’s really doing anything and he is already on a high dose. We are seeing a VB and will have another appointment next month but we are just so lost. We had a trainer come first before we saw a VB and she said he needs medication ASAP and that she cannot help until he is more stable but he just isn’t even after being on medication for about six months. We have recently moved house but we at our old house lived with a family member and had a routine set while living there. One of us would take him into the bathroom (he would go in willingly) and then the other person would put his food into the backyard and wait at the back door, person in the bathroom would then open the bathroom door, dog would ran outside (while growling) and then the person at the back door would shut it straight after he goes out. Now that we have moved house I thought it’s a new house and maybe a new environment would be a fresh start. For a few days we were putting his food down in the kitchen and rush out of the room to where he couldn’t see us, he would watch me leave but then eat and be fine but after a few days he went back to attacking us when we put the food down. But now.. we got another dog. A very, very sweet boy who has no issues with food. Tonight we tried feeding the new dog in the kitchen and put the original dog in the laundry behind a baby gate and lowered his food down to him. He growled but just ate it. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Tips? We cannot go back to our old routine of putting it outside, the weather is to up and down here and he hates going out in the rain. I am honestly drained by this situation. We love our dog, he is a loving and very smart boy but I just don’t know what to do anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Does he do this with all food? A tiny treat? Low value food- a piece of carrot for example? What skills does he know- obedience/ tricks? What’s his general attitude to training like? These things are most important as you must have the brain functioning at its best in order to generate genuine behavioural change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDoggy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, Cosmolo said: Does he do this with all food? A tiny treat? Low value food- a piece of carrot for example? What skills does he know- obedience/ tricks? What’s his general attitude to training like? These things are most important as you must have the brain functioning at its best in order to generate genuine behavioural change. Yes, any food. One tiny dry biscuit and he attacked the trainer when she came to see him. We don’t give him treats for this reason. He knows a few things and learnt very quickly. He can sit, lay down, roll over, he knows “kiss”, “mummy”, “daddy”, “outside”, he knows what go wee means, etc. He is good at listening. But again because we can’t give him treats we cannot do much training anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 What training was recommended in combination with the meds? What breed and how old is the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDoggy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cosmolo said: What training was recommended in combination with the meds? What breed and how old is the dog? We were advised to wait for the trainer to come back once we had moved into our new house (only just moved in) and settled in. We were told by the VB to keep him calm whenever possible, praise for being calm, tell him in a whisper “good boy _____” when he was relaxing and calm. As well as a few small things to help with his anxiety around new people and on walks. But that’s about it for now! He is a cavalier king charles and almost a year and a half old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazydoglady99 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 This is pretty serious, and to be honest -I am unsure why you got another dog? Do you have a crate? So that he can be fed in a crate -so that everyone is safe? When did all this start? Did you get him as a puppy? Do you have a muzzle? I feel that he should be muzzled, for the safety of your other dog? You need some serious, drastic measures asap. I feel like it might be a self-rewarding system. He is aggressive with food, and doing so enables him to get the food all to himself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazydoglady99 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The other thing is.. certain OCD and anxiety meds should NEVER be used with dogs that have aggressive tendencies. They loose their inhibitions and are like a ticking time bomb!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 It would be unwise for me to make any strong suggestions given the seriousness of the situation without seeing the dog. But an an array of brain work including nosework and scent trails, puzzles and problem solving work plus impulse control, the use of distance as a reinforcer and the use of a tether for safety would most likely feature as part of the behaviour modification program. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 When is the trainer coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDoggy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 21 minutes ago, crazydoglady99 said: This is pretty serious, and to be honest -I am unsure why you got another dog? Do you have a crate? So that he can be fed in a crate -so that everyone is safe? When did all this start? Did you get him as a puppy? Do you have a muzzle? I feel that he should be muzzled, for the safety of your other dog? You need some serious, drastic measures asap. I feel like it might be a self-rewarding system. He is aggressive with food, and doing so enables him to get the food all to himself.. I’m sorry you feel this why but we wanted to get another dog and our first dog has been wonderful and very gentle with him. He is not an aggressive monster of a dog 24/7 as it seems you’re imagining. He had his issues of course but he is not in angry mode all day long. They are both currently laying on the floor sleeping together. Our new dog has nothing to do with his issues, the new dog will not be harmed in any way. Our first dog has never been aggressive to another dog before and has been around food and dogs before. We don’t have a crate, we don’t crate train and I don’t know how feeding him in a crate would work because how would we get the food in there? He would still get aggressive. We do not have a muzzle and putting a muzzle on him would not help his feeding. As I said, he is not like this all the time and our new dog is not in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDoggy Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, Cosmolo said: When is the trainer coming back? We will be in touch with her after our next visit with the VB which will be next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I’d recommend calling or emailing your VB to update them. They may be able to move your appointment forward. Your trainer could help too, even if just with improving your management. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazydoglady99 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 My apologies. I have obviously misunderstood your post. Perhaps check your local council and other dog related laws - so you know your legal obligations. Heaven forbid he was to escape or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, HunterDoggy said: He is good at listening. But again because we can’t give him treats we cannot do much training anymore. Did you know that LOTS of training can be/is done without resorting to food rewards ? Praise /playing with a special toy are excellent rewards !! For many many years I trained guide dogs ..we never used a treat .. We train our sheepdogs ..no treats either ... Mostly my pet dogs have been trained with no treats . if your boy loves his cuddles/physical contact etc ..then- that is his perfect reward!! so reading this ... I assume there is NO aggression towards other dogs when food is present ? ONLY HUMANS ? Quote Our first dog has never been aggressive to another dog before and has been around food and dogs before. Hopefully an aggressive response won't be triggered by a splash of something on the floor, or crumbs, or a cat poo out in the garden, left-overs on a footpath or in a park ..or the scent/presence of treats/food on other people with whom you come into contact Edited January 13, 2019 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Is this the only real issue you’ve got? I’m definitely not professionally qualified to give advice or anything, so feel free to disregard this. Can you just feed him first and separately? Or at the same time as your other dog eats? Anything so they have nothing whatsoever to do with each other come meal time? I don’t know how your house is set up etc, but is there some way of a person putting food into a room, maybe leashing or tethering the aggressive dog prior to doing so getting your dog in there and closing the door behind him, then going off to feed the other dog and cleaning up all residue before coming back to let the food aggressive dog out of the room? I could be missing something and apologise if I am, but if there’s a way for you to get food to him safely and that’s the only thing that sets off his anxiety etc...I don’t really see a huge problem? i know it’s not the easiest and that you’re gonna have to live to a strict dinnertime routine (maybe you could cut down to just dinner if you’re currently doing breakfast and dinner if the rigmarole is too draining), but if that’s what it takes to make your dog happy, it should be achievable? I guess don’t ever eat your own food around him or your other dog and don’t use treats for either of them - but that’s not hard (and will save you $$ on treats...and maybe calories since you can’t lounge around eating cookies with your dogs around ;) ). As for the worries about if he escapes etc - tell your vet you’re concerned re your level of liability etc and have them tell you what steps to take to protect yourself (like if this is an issue severe enough to warrant a higher fence or sign or something, I dunno what ), just do your due diligence. Although - and again, I could be missing a whole tonne of the story or something, but really there are plenty of dogs who don’t like being bothered whilst eating or who would guard their resources. Admittedly you’re at the extreme end of the spectrum here and you’ve got other issues (the meds etc) BUT - and again, just my 2 c and I could be totally off base - but if you’re doing everything you can to keep your dogs happy and healthy and safe, are willing to disclose potential issues which may lead to safety ramifications, are willing to take any requisite protective action (beware of dog sign, enduring dog cannot get at visitors (or the other way around lol...tell people who come over to not eat, please) - I don’t see anything that can’t be overcome with a bit of persistence and commitment to a strict mealtime quarantine routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Personally I’d be addressing the issue AND managing mealtimes rather than just the latter. Management is vital but training helps to prepare for an occasion where management is not 100%. Dont wait another month. Get the professionals back involved now and get a serious training plan in place. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 My advice is get Cosmolo to train the the dog, she knows her stuff ! Meds vary and it can take time to find the right one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 What did the VB say about managing the new dog & the old dog .Did they know you where bringing a new dog into the home? Personally i would never have brought a new dog into this equation & i do hope it works without the new dog bearing the brunt of aggression & i think its safe to say if he will go for you he will go for the new dog once sharing is no longer fun . I hope for your sake both dogs do get on BUT you need to be mindful this may not be the case .Playing with another dog compared to sharing your home & all the things that go with it are very different . I would be crate training the new dog to feed it in there & offer a safe zone if ever required . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 A few thoughts. This is a fairly unusual behaviour in a CKCS I would have thought. So it would be ringing alarm bells for me. Have you discussed it with his breeders .. they may have come across it somewhere in the breed before and may have some ideas. And because of his breed, I would be cheking whether the lines behind him were clear as far as possible to determine, of Syringomyelia. And as far as crate training goes..... I would be considering giving it a go. If he loves his food, then it would really be a matter of putting his food in his crate when he is not in the room, then opening the door and leaving him to it. Is your VB a trainer as well? Sometimes VBs who also train can have some really valuable suggestions. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDoggy Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Thank you for your responses. I am working 12 hour days at the moment so don’t have the energy or time to reply to everyone but I am taking in all your advice. Everyone must understand that I have written this post and cannot put every single detail about my dog / our life / our routine into one post. I am not a stupid person and I care very deeply for my dogs. I get that you’re judging me for getting another dog but you don’t fully understand our situation or know my first dog. I truely believe that our new dog is in no danger at all. As I said, I cannot explain properly in a short post so you will just have to believe me. Our first dog has serious mental health issues and he is very sorry whenever he has an outburst but he is a beautiful and loving boy who was just born this way. He loves the company of his new brother and I am happy with our choice to add another dog to our family. Yes this is a serious situation, yes I am getting help for it, yes I have spoken to the breeders about it and no they have never had anything like this before, yes it is unusual for this breed but it is what it is. We are doing our best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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