A strange puppy Tale. (Not tail)

[Sunny1979]

Ok tried, as reqquested earlier to break down his meal. so  if I spread across floor he makes entire floor messy and if I give him a spoonful he thinks i am taking his food. He doesn't bark or bite  but tries to dominate the bowl. After finishing his food he would lick my hand. So I am assuming we are friendly with each other when it comes to food.

 

TRAINING UPDATE

 

I am keeping a record of my Do's and Don't while training puppy. Please feel free to share your inputs or feedback.

I have seen somewhere on internet that max training time should be 5-10 min

I started training yesterday with help of food, at first he was not interested and will go behind me and smell my  BUTTOCK.  Initially he was very frustrated and   was not able to understand why i am asking him to SIT? 

 

So I kept asking him to SIT and he kept jumping on me to grab the food, however  I was not there to give up so easily. I initially started by saying SIT but Tuffy had no idea what is SIT. I guess.

 

Watched a video on you tube on how to use hand movement  to make him SIT. Walla it worked! When i said sit and moved food with my hand towards him. First he picked his neck up and then sat down.  ( So my first learning was voice commands needs to be explained to a puppy).

He has already started understanding SIT and when I say SIT 6/10 times he will SIT and look for my hand.

 

BITING AND CHEWING UPDATE

After success of SIT command. This made me feel confident and bossy, now I felt like ruler of 7 worlds and excited like hell. I was like hell ya I can train you but later that day  In evening when tuffy came for play after his meal, he starting chewing  on me and furniture and I was like I can fix this. So as usual I came across this article where it was explained to shh the dog or Tap his nose or Say No in assertive way this would help.

 

 But this does not work for tuffy. He actually became more aggressive. I tried to raise my voice  but not he did not listen, poor fellow slept without understanding why I tapped his nose or raised my voice  So I started reading again and came across another article how to handle biting and chewing.

 

So now next morning I was ready with my advanced weapon system  His favorite soft toy and treats!  I knew he would come running at me after completing his morning breakfast. It worked initially, he started playing with toy, after good 2 min he started chewing  me again and then when I said sit he did not let it go then I used treat. I had better results. He looked at me SAT DOWN took the food from my had  enjoyed it and few seconds later it was my leg again.  I am not sure if he undertood that I am treating him for not chewing my leg. I think he understood he will get food when he chews my leg and SIT. So he is biting my leg and then look up at me to treat him. WTF...

 

He is also stubborn he kept coming back till I was out of treats. Then it was my socks and my legs again. 

 

So for next time, I have a plan for peanut butter, lets see how he reacts to that. He completely dislikes me combing his hair and dry bath. Will try that and let u know how he reacts.

 

POTTY  TRAINING Update:

 

He has not potty inside house for last 3 days now, he uses potty pads most of the times, but poor guy is a bad shooter, he goes outside and tries to do it on pad some how he misses the aim or the angel of drop is incorrect so it will land half on pad and half on floor

 

I don't understand why he will pee on potty pads sometimes only, rest of the times it the floor or crate. You guys can help me with this maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Sunny1979

[Sunny1979]

Ok I did a bad thing, I ended up hitting tuffy while training and I feel really bad about it.  I am feeling guilty,

 

Though it was a slight tap on his face but I still feel he is a baby and i should not have  done it,  he made a cry and went under my arm and slept. I stopped training him for now as I myself did not know why did i do this.

 

What should be my punishment? A slight tap for a tap would not make tuffy happy, so how do i remove my guilt?

[Loving my Oldies]

I think we’ve all been there, Sunny.  Our guilt is our punishment.  You won’t do it again.  

[sandgrubber]

5 hours ago, Sunny1979 said:

Ok I did a bad thing, I ended up hitting tuffy while training and I feel really bad about it.  I am feeling guilty,

 

Though it was a slight tap on his face but I still feel he is a baby and i should not have  done it,  he made a cry and went under my arm and slept. I stopped training him for now as I myself did not know why did i do this.

 

What should be my punishment? A slight tap for a tap would not make tuffy happy, so how do i remove my guilt?

No biggie. Older dogs nip at pups all the time and pups yelp. The pup seems to forget in 30 seconds. If "hit" carries no force it's probably in the same class as yelling... and when those sharp little milk teeth sink in, it's hard not to yell ("ouch!" ). 

[tdierikx]

Puppy naughtiness can make us humans SOOO frustrated... we've all been there @Sunny1979... best to just stop any training or playing session when we start to feel that frustration coming on, OK?

 

Time-outs can be effective when he's in naughty chewing legs/hands mode... if he won't stop when you ask him to, then pick him up and pop him in his crate and ignore him for 10 minutes... repeat as often as necessary so he gets the idea that you don't like the sort of "play" he's been engaging in.

 

I have a special "UHH UHH" that I use for puppies being naughty... it's got a bit of growly tone and is fairly deep voiced. They understand it so much better than "no". I used it a few times on my friend's new puppy just yesterday in fact... he likes biting/chewing on hands and feet too, and when he thought he'd try it on my nose, it was definitely "UHH UHH" time! He started by licking my nose, then I saw his little mouth open wide and come for a chomp... a quick "UHH!" before he closed down made him rethink his options and he pulled his head back and looked at me as if to say "this lady means business"...

 

Patience is definitely the key with puppies... as they do silly things so often, and they do need some time to fully understand what we are asking of them. They still need to be able to do some silly things, but we just need to teach them that the destructive or hurting silly things aren't appreciated.

 

With the food gobbling, maybe you could try 4 or 5 small bowls for his meals to spread it out into smaller portions... put each bowl down one at a time so he has time to swallow the last portion before eating the next one. Alternately, you can have him in his crate while you set the bowls down spaced out, then let him out of the crate to discover all these "dinners" at his own leisure... it becomes a great game then too...

 

When I used to raise puppies for rescue, my older dogs used to help with discipline of naughty behaviour... one older dog would take so much, then turn around suddenly and literally flatten the naughty pup with a huge growl. This is how other dogs teach puppies manners and it looks/sounds like they really want to hurt the puppy, but usually it has only given puppy a really big fright - enough so that puppy learns pretty quickly that what they did just before being flattened just won't be tolerated at all. My "UHH" is a modification of the older dog's tone when correcting puppies, and it is rarely accompanied with physical action, except for removing puppy to a time-out if they persist in their naughty behaviour.

 

Toilet training is the hardest hurdle... puppies don't always have the best control, so it can take a while for them to get it just right. Tuffy is doing REALLY well so far, so just continue what you are doing and he'll get there soon enough, OK?

 

T.

[PANDI-GIRL]

This topic is really interesting I'm learning new  idea's  as well as  Sunny & Tuffy 

[Tassie]

@Sunny1979, you and Tuffy are doing a good job of learning together.    There are some great resources out there on relationship based and reward based training.  Have a look on YouTube for Kikopup and Donna Hill, just as a start.    Remember that you are actually training Tuffy all the time, .. or he's training you.   So it's really important to be mindful, as you are being.  And if you reach the end of your patience, or Tuffy is showing you he's either too excited or too tired to learn, then a little timeout in his crate or x pen is a great idea.

I using a toy or a substitute chew toy to redirect the chewing activity you don't want, the idea is to teach him that it's OK to chew and play with the substitute you're offering .. toy, cardboard roll or whatever, so you use the little interrupt noise, then tease him a bit with the toy to get him interested and let him play with that.  It can take quite a lot of repetitions .. took 3 weeks to persuade my Border Collie pup when he was young that pants tugging was not OK, but playing tug with other things or chewing them was..

 

In terms of general obedience type training, the general rule is to teach the behaviour first .. as you're doing with having him follow your food lure, mark and reward what you like, and only when the pup is doing the behaviour pretty well, do you start to put a word on it.    (Thinks if someone gave you an order in a language you did not understand, and expected you to obey it.   This is why modern dog training tends to use the word "cue" rather than "command"  .. words like sit are cues to prompt the dog to give you a behaviour he already knows.

 

As far as the grooming goes, it can be really helpful to use something like a frozen food puzzle toy, or even a mug with something like peanut butter smeared around the inside of  it and then frozen.   This occupies the pup, and leaves you with hands free for the grooming.    If you are consistent with using this one particular thing, I would bet Tuffy will be begging you to groom him.

[Sunny1979]

Not the kind of response I expected, but seems like you all are biased.  I expected something like you "SHOULD NOT DO THAT "  I mean what kind of man would hit a puppy? Ok but  I can live with your reply,  I feel less guilty now and tuffy also playing and licking me today, seems he has forgotten. 

 

Loving my Oldies Yes you are right  yesterday he draw the first blood while playing he bit me really hard but I was Like OOOOOOOOUCCHHHHH and then something really funny came out of my mouth and everyone laughed but it was insulting to tuffy I said  " Kutta  Ke bache:" Which means you  "son of a dog" in english and I raised my voice but did not hit him, so that was improvement, but I had to crate him after that. I feel sorry for little fellow, he really likes being free but me NOT specially when he is in Biting mode.

 

tdierikx  I tried something different. So I was training him to SIT and this really worked.   I gave him a spoonful of food asked him to SIT, he obeyed and then I told him to STAY, he obeyed and then I tell him to SHAKE HAND which he did after that I said COME  ( to eat his food). This really worked for TUFFY. So it calms him down doing three steps.  His tail is wagging at 100 miles per hour though.

 

Also what I noticed was tuffy is smart to learn stay and come himself without explaining him.   I did work on 10 minutes morning and evening with peanut butter as treat  to teach him Hand shake.Also he is trained to pick up his bowl every time he wants to eat and drops in my hand.  I will post the entire video for you guys.

 

 

"Time-outs can be effective when he's in naughty chewing legs/hands mode... if he won't stop when you ask him to, then pick him up and pop him in his crate and ignore him for 10 minutes... repeat as often as necessary so he gets the idea that you don't like the sort of "play" he's been engaging in."

 

yes thank you I am trying this now, will let u know if this works and teach him some doggy manners.

 

"When I used to raise puppies for rescue, my older dogs used to help with discipline of naughty behaviour... one older dog would take so much, then turn around suddenly and literally flatten the naughty pup with a huge growl. This is how other dogs teach puppies manners and it looks/sounds like they really want to hurt the puppy, but usually it has only given puppy a really big fright - enough so that puppy learns pretty quickly that what they did just before being flattened just won't be tolerated at all. My "UHH" is a modification of the older dog's tone when correcting puppies, and it is rarely accompanied with physical action, except for removing puppy to a time-out if they persist in their naughty behaviour."

 

I might be asking to much but can I get a video of this? I will try searching on you tube if i can find, this sounds very interestig.

 

I actually really like UHH OHH,  Even I like it not sure about tuffy. 

 

PANDI-GIRL -  He he yes puppies are great way to socialize, not just where we live but even on Internet.  **Chukles**

[Sunny1979]

39 minutes ago, Tassie said:

@Sunny1979, you and Tuffy are doing a good job of learning together.    There are some great resources out there on relationship based and reward based training.  Have a look on YouTube for Kikopup and Donna Hill, just as a start.    Remember that you are actually training Tuffy all the time, .. or he's training you.   So it's really important to be mindful, as you are being.  And if you reach the end of your patience, or Tuffy is showing you he's either too excited or too tired to learn, then a little timeout in his crate or x pen is a great idea.

I using a toy or a substitute chew toy to redirect the chewing activity you don't want, the idea is to teach him that it's OK to chew and play with the substitute you're offering .. toy, cardboard roll or whatever, so you use the little interrupt noise, then tease him a bit with the toy to get him interested and let him play with that.  It can take quite a lot of repetitions .. took 3 weeks to persuade my Border Collie pup when he was young that pants tugging was not OK, but playing tug with other things or chewing them was..

 

In terms of general obedience type training, the general rule is to teach the behaviour first .. as you're doing with having him follow your food lure, mark and reward what you like, and only when the pup is doing the behaviour pretty well, do you start to put a word on it.    (Thinks if someone gave you an order in a language you did not understand, and expected you to obey it.   This is why modern dog training tends to use the word "cue" rather than "command"  .. words like sit are cues to prompt the dog to give you a behaviour he already knows.

 

As far as the grooming goes, it can be really helpful to use something like a frozen food puzzle toy, or even a mug with something like peanut butter smeared around the inside of  it and then frozen.   This occupies the pup, and leaves you with hands free for the grooming.    If you are consistent with using this one particular thing, I would bet Tuffy will be begging you to groom him.

 

Thanx I will watch at noon,  I tried kong style toys with little peanut butter while grooming him, yes he let me groom him without biting the hand or comb. I will give a try to frozen. 

 

PS: I totally agree with you, this is what I had to learn myself, Dogs don't understand what is SIT and we have to explain the commands before without voice. No dog training video tells this on internet. 

 

Its like telling him to OBEY and he goes like searching ....searching ....searching..... Command NOT Found.

 

 

[persephone]

1 hour ago, Sunny1979 said:

I said  " Kutta  Ke bache:" Which means you  "son of a dog"

   sure that's not "son-of-a- bitch"  ??

Anyway . 

keep sessions short and fun!!  2 minutes , even!! ALWAYS , ALWAYS end on a HIGH  Then a memory is in his little brain  of happy ..just happy

I enjoy watching these little videos ... some of it is what I do with our puppies ... as I'm useless using a clicker , , and my timing is always a bit 'slow '  ;) 

With baby pups ..the method shown in video  takes a little patience and  concentration ..but ...watch closely !! NO voice commands at first !! Cos pups don't know Our Speech   
Pups ARE smart ..and they very quickly learn that doing xyz  gets them  something   
Pups we have now  learned in just a few minutes  that food bowls would stay empty  unless they had bums on the ground for more than 2 seconds ..I did NOT use my voice ..and THEY  made the decision 
The gate on their pen  will only open  if bums are on the ground ..AND I have used my voice  to quietly praise them without them getting up

When a puppy makes a decision which  gives them a reward ( or a bad experience )  this is  remembered . A couple of practices ..and praise ..ALWAYS calm and quiet  from an owner ..and  that behaviour will stick!!

You have children ? Can they 'push your buttons' to get a reaction? Do they sit , gaaaze at you with HUGE eyes /help you with chores, unasked,   to encourage you to give them praise ? They've done what puppies do

VIDEO to watch   CLICK HERE

Video  to watch      CLICK HERE

And one other ...CLICK HERE  self control

[tdierikx]

I do not have a video of a dog flattening a naughty puppy... and can't find a video on youtube that shows exactly what my dog would do.

 

The closest I could find was this video of a mother dog teaching her little ones submissive behaviours...

 

As you can see with the black puppy, she puts her mouth around him and makes him go on his back... my dog did this with a loud growl and pinned naughty puppy down with her mouth around his neck. It was not friendly, but also did not actually hurt puppy, just gave it enough of a fright that it would remember not to do what it had done to the older dog again...

 

T.

 

[sandgrubber]

42 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

I do not have a video of a dog flattening a naughty puppy... and can't find a video on youtube that shows exactly what my dog would do.

 

The closest I could find was this video of a mother dog teaching her little ones submissive behaviours...

 

As you can see with the black puppy, she puts her mouth around him and makes him go on his back... my dog did this with a loud growl and pinned naughty puppy down with her mouth around his neck. It was not friendly, but also did not actually hurt puppy, just gave it enough of a fright that it would remember not to do what it had done to the older dog again...

 

T.

 

Lovely video.  There's a middle ground between punishment and positive reinforcement. Watching dogs work it out is interesting.  

[Loving my Oldies]

BUT LET US REMEMBER, THIS IS DOG BEHAVIOUR.  HUMANS MUST NOT COPY.

 

Yes, I am shouting because I really wanted to emphasise this.  

[sandgrubber]

39 minutes ago, Loving my Oldies said:

BUT LET US REMEMBER, THIS IS DOG BEHAVIOUR.  HUMANS MUST NOT COPY.

 

Yes, I am shouting because I really wanted to emphasise this.  

Humans can't copy, but there may be something we can learn. 

[Sunny1979]

21 hours ago, persephone said:

keep sessions short and fun!!  2 minutes , even!! ALWAYS , ALWAYS end on a HIGH  Then a memory is in his little brain  of happy ..just happy

Yes this would be good, I think I am taking this too seriously, I need to make it fun for Tuf

21 hours ago, persephone said:

I enjoy watching these little videos ... some of it is what I do with our puppies ... as I'm useless using a clicker , , and my timing is always a bit 'slow '  ;) 

 I tried to click a video for you guys yesterday, where tuffy would bring his bowl when hungry and drop on Kitchen floor, Can u guys believe it took me 15 attempts begging to do this on camera. He did NOT do it. Finally I gave up and went to kitchen  to prepare his meal. 

21 hours ago, persephone said:

You have children ?

I have a little 6 yeard old visiting out house very often  as he mother is working full time, she is my sis daughter.  She gets so excited when she sees tuffy

 and they make a deadly combo together. She would be like jumping tuffy tuffy tuffy and clapping hands, now tuffy gets excited and tries to bite her legs and then the entire things get out of control, both of them cant understand a word that I say.

 

PS: ty for the videos

[Sunny1979]

persephone - T we had this amazing 2 min short  training session multiple times and he seem to love short sessions rather then boring long ones.  So thanx alot. 

 

tdierikx - Thanx for that great video. I took tuffy to a 11 year old lab today he is very friendly with puppies and vaccinated,  They bonded very well and spoke in some doggy language. I wished I could have clicked a video. The Oldie took tuffy  by his chain for a ride  in park. A very small one but very productive.

 

 

 

[Sunny1979]

Tuffy 2nd vaccination completed today, he is due for deworming on12th.

 

Tuffy cant seem to remember where to pee and potty correctly on pads, he has started to pee on tiles again.? Whats am i doing wrong?

[persephone]

1 hour ago, Sunny1979 said:

Tuffy cant seem to remember where to pee and potty correctly on pads, he has started to pee on tiles again.? Whats am i doing wrong?

LOL ..being impatient!!  

A lot of puppies are not housetrained for about 6 months!! 

They need your guidance /physical barriers /every opportunity to DO THE CORRECT THING   to learn these habits well

The main thing is ...that if a puppy has free run of a whole house ..finding a pee pad  when you're only a baby  and  can't yet control all your functions properly  is impossible  in a lot of  occasions When you gotta go ..you GOTTA GO !!

These pages may be of help to you & tuffy

CLICK HERE

CLICK HERE

CLICK HERE

[Loving my Oldies]

You are not doing anything wrong, Sunny.  You have a tiny puppy in your house.       

[Sunny1979]

Ok guys, I am teaching tuffy not to grab food from hand. Its working the opposite way for him.

 

He used to love banana, now he wont eat it.

 

What I tried. I took banana and he would grab it from my hand by jumping on it. So I would close my hand and say No or wait.  I tried that for 2 min in last 4-5 days.

 

Now he is growling at the banana.  He goes Grrr... I dont want it.

 

Also whenever we drop anything on the floor he will run fast and picks in his mouth and try to swallow it, any idea how to train on that?

 

Also if he swallowed something is it recommend to forcefully take out from his mouth? Would he bite me? He goes very aggrresive if we try to pull out something from his mouth.