Nutrition

[Ricky2]

Hello, i have a 1.5 year old lab mix around 44 pounds who's been fed only kibble since a puppy,not knowing much about nutrition i started her on pedigree and purina friskies thinking it was good quality kibble just to later on find out it was horrible.Since i am and was on a tight budget i had to keep her on a white brand but have recently found a better kibble thats on my budget (1st ingredient is hydrolised chicken,corn,rice..salmon oil,yucca extract) not the best,but better than what i was giving her(cereals,by-products). I do give her raw marrow bones from time to time so she can gnaw on but immediatly remove them once she starts eating little bits of bone. 

Shes been really picky recently and barely eats her kibble,just today she came back from the beach  and i gave her kibble and when i came back later on she still hadnt eaten it.(+3h)

Ive been looking into  soaking her kibble in water,but read both good and bad things on it,also been thinking on  adding boiled eggs or liver,chicken hearts,raw/boiled carrots to both improve her kibble and see if she'll eat but am afraid that if i start adding those from time to time to her kibble she wont eat it without that, as im basically spoiling her.

What can i do to make her eat her kibble,and if i start mixing her kibble with something what should i do so she wont get even more picky by only eating kibble mixed with something.

I have changed flavours so she wont get bored but she didnt really like any of them.She did seem to eat much more when on a poor quality kibble but im really trying hard to avoid it.

Please help me out.

[Rebanne]

I'd put her back on what she liked and ate. I only feed supermarket brand dry food to my dogs. (They are also fed other stuff) I do have one dog who is a very reluctant eater. I find a sprinkle of parmesan cheese helps her to eat her meal. I never leave food out. If it's not eaten within a few minutes I pick it up. I'd be adding extra's to her diet and I wouldn't consider it spoiling.

[Sagittarian]

Most if not all premium brands have a palatability guarantee, so you can quite safely try a food for a few days to see how she goes, knowing you can return for a refund if it isn't to her liking or upsets her in some way.

 

Some brands provide sample packs and whilst that won't tell you long term what suits, it does save on buying a product only to return it.

 

What about raw feeding - you already offer raw bones and there is plenty of great info on a basic raw diet. I personally do not ever soak dry food and if she is really not enjoying it, do urge you to look further afield.

 

If you prefer to dry or mix feed, then look for the lower priced foods without the fillers - as in wheat/corn/soy etc. Really not a good way to fill a dog up. Happy to send you some brand suggestions by message if you wish. 

 

:-)

[persephone]

Hi  

Adding  good food to processed stuff is NOT 'spoiling'   it is looking after the health of your dog  Well done. 

perhaps look around petstores/butchers /markets ...experiment with how much it might cost to feed raw  ?
Feeding basic raw isn't hard ...  Chicken frames (and other nice edible RAW bone  )/bits of liver /sardines /egg /some biscuit treats / bit of vegetable  if you want ..there are many variations  

[Ricky2]

11 hours ago, Rebanne said:

I'd put her back on what she liked and ate. I only feed supermarket brand dry food to my dogs. (They are also fed other stuff) I do have one dog who is a very reluctant eater. I find a sprinkle of parmesan cheese helps her to eat her meal. I never leave food out. If it's not eaten within a few minutes I pick it up. I'd be adding extra's to her diet and I wouldn't consider it spoiling.

 

11 hours ago, Sagittarian said:

Most if not all premium brands have a palatability guarantee, so you can quite safely try a food for a few days to see how she goes, knowing you can return for a refund if it isn't to her liking or upsets her in some way.

 

Some brands provide sample packs and whilst that won't tell you long term what suits, it does save on buying a product only to return it.

 

What about raw feeding - you already offer raw bones and there is plenty of great info on a basic raw diet. I personally do not ever soak dry food and if she is really not enjoying it, do urge you to look further afield.

 

If you prefer to dry or mix feed, then look for the lower priced foods without the fillers - as in wheat/corn/soy etc. Really not a good way to fill a dog up. Happy to send you some brand suggestions by message if you wish. 

 

:-)

 

6 hours ago, persephone said:

Hi  

Adding  good food to processed stuff is NOT 'spoiling'   it is looking after the health of your dog  Well done. 

perhaps look around petstores/butchers /markets ...experiment with how much it might cost to feed raw  ?
Feeding basic raw isn't hard ...  Chicken frames (and other nice edible RAW bone  )/bits of liver /sardines /egg /some biscuit treats / bit of vegetable  if you want ..there are many variations  

Thank you for all your opinions, please do send me some kibble suggestions,unfortunately they might not available where i live.

Sadly there are no decent priced brands without any fillers, at least where i live.(Portugal) and ive never seen samples around supermarkets.

Im kinda relunctant to add extras to her kibble as ive heard that you shouldnt give eggs,liver etc everyday as i said before im afraid she'll refuse to eat without those..

The kibble that she's fed at the moment costs 11,99-7.5kg and lasts her around 3 weeks, she never goes a day without eating so thats good and the vet told me she looks great and to keep doing what i am. 

I have seen good results since i moved her to this brand, her fur is more shiny,doesnt have as much hair falling and her teeth havent been getting as much plaque as they used to when on the other brand which used to cost 13 something-10kg.

And you're spot on persephone i've been looking so much into raw feeding but heard its not as easy as it looks as you usually need to supplement it otherwise it could cause some damage, also i'ts not too pratical for me to feed her raw as i usually am out of the house by 7:30 am and wouldnt be able to remove the food so it doesnt spoil which i know probably wouldnt happen and i can prep but stil :D also l heard its really expensive to raw feed,even by those who have doing it for years and meat around here can be quite pricey,everything is LOL . On working days i usually feed her around 7 something and during weekends and holidays around 10am.

Do you think i can give her chicken legs,breats,thights as a snack from time to time,would i see any improvement(teeth wise,coat...)?

Also whats your opinion on good quality wet food(alpha spirit etc)-heard its bad for their teeth...

 

[sandgrubber]

23 hours ago, Ricky2 said:

Hello, i have a 1.5 year old lab mix around 44 pounds who's been fed only kibble since a puppy,not knowing much about nutrition i started her on pedigree and purina friskies thinking it was good quality kibble just to later on find out it was horrible.Since i am and was on a tight budget i had to keep her on a white brand but have recently found a better kibble thats on my budget (1st ingredient is hydrolised chicken,corn,rice..salmon oil,yucca extract) not the best,but better than what i was giving her(cereals,by-products). I do give her raw marrow bones from time to time so she can gnaw on but immediatly remove them once she starts eating little bits of bone. 

Sh

Apart from the bare bones of protein, fat, and basic nutritional requirements (no pun intended) no one knows much about dog nutrition.  Lots of people are shouting this and that, but there's pathetically little scientific evidence backing all the claims about what is a good diet.  There is a lot of marketing b.s. drummed up by the pet food industry to make you feel guilty if you don't buy the high price stuff. There are some dogs who don't do well on this or that grain, but other dogs who do fine. Corn is vilified, but apart from being a little less digestible, there's little evidence it's bad.  Similarly, byproducts and meals aren't necessarily bad, and some may be quite good.

I've know many dogs who lived to a healthy old age on supposedly 'crap' supermarket dry foods, plus occasional table scraps, eggs, and waste foods. It is VERY well established that overfeeding is bad.  It seems that there are a many deceptive small companies buying from large manufacturers and bagging as super special. Apart from keeping weight down, I'd say don't be suckered in by super premium claims.  Find something that your dog likes and you can afford. Avoid companies that don't have their own manufacturing plants and an established reputation. 

 

[Ricky2]

20 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

Apart from the bare bones of protein, fat, and basic nutritional requirements (no pun intended) no one knows much about dog nutrition.  Lots of people are shouting this and that, but there's pathetically little scientific evidence backing all the claims about what is a good diet.  There is a lot of marketing b.s. drummed up by the pet food industry to make you feel guilty if you don't buy the high price stuff. There are some dogs who don't do well on this or that grain, but other dogs who do fine. Corn is vilified, but apart from being a little less digestible, there's little evidence it's bad.  Similarly, byproducts and meals aren't necessarily bad, and some may be quite good.

I've know many dogs who lived to a healthy old age on supposedly 'crap' supermarket dry foods, plus occasional table scraps, eggs, and waste foods. It is VERY well established that overfeeding is bad.  It seems that there are a many deceptive small companies buying from large manufacturers and bagging as super special. Apart from keeping weight down, I'd say don't be suckered in by super premium claims.  Find something that your dog likes and you can afford. Avoid companies that don't have their own manufacturing plants and an established reputation. 

 

I agree with you,also the prices are extravagant mostly because of the brand and not the quality,for example purina,pedigree etc..but no one can deny that most of the time we are able to see a  difference when on a higher quality kibble,teeth wise,shinier coat,etc..but it is true that there are lots of dogs that live long lives on poor quality kibble and/or scraps.

Its also sad to see how many companies have been changing the quality on kibble once they have established themselves and now use lower quality ingredients.Same with the grain free,known to be related to heart issues because of taurine deficiency etc..truth is what may work for your dog may not work for mine. 

 

Hope to hear more from people so i can learn more and try to give the best i can.

 

 

[Rebanne]

If you are putting out your dogs dry food in the morning when you leave and you can't be sure she'll eat it then I wouldn't add eggs etc in case they go off. You could add to her dry food when you are home at weekends. Plenty of people feed raw chicken pieces as a separate meal and would do wonders for her teeth/jaw/wellbeing.

[juice]

It can really do your head in reading about what is good and what isn't.

I did alot of research years ago when my dally started to form stones, and i had a bully with skin problems.

I have fed raw and just kibble, and tbh its what the dog does best on.

I currently feed one on Costco food ( which is made by a premuim company for a third of the price), and one on Supercoat weight management.

I do chuck in sardines, yogurt and eggs randomly too.

Try not to overthink it, keeping the weight off a lab is priority.

[Ricky2]

14 hours ago, juice said:

It can really do your head in reading about what is good and what isn't.

I did alot of research years ago when my dally started to form stones, and i had a bully with skin problems.

I have fed raw and just kibble, and tbh its what the dog does best on.

I currently feed one on Costco food ( which is made by a premuim company for a third of the price), and one on Supercoat weight management.

I do chuck in sardines, yogurt and eggs randomly too.

Try not to overthink it, keeping the weight off a lab is priority.

It should be sardines in water right? unfortunately i've never seen them at the supermarkets where i live, not even online.

When i first got her i thought it was going to be an issue with the weight as they are known to always want to eat.Her littermates are like that,they devour their food in seconds, but mine doesn't which is both good and bad, funnily enough i'm having trouble on making her eat,she is in no way skinny which i'm relieved about,and i know there's nothing wrong with her because she goes crazy with our food which we never or rarely give a bite of and whenever i give her raw bones.But it does worry me when i go for long runs with her and she wont eat.

I think she is just cheeky because sometimes she'll immediately start eating when im near her,and i always go away because i think she made a habit of it.

Maybe im just worrying too much.

I really wanted her to try the salmon version from the brand she's on but the composition isn't as good as the chicken and lamb is (has cereals and by products,but has yucca and beetroot extract if im not mistaken).

oh well i'll do what i can ahah

[sheena]

Sardines come in Spring Water.  Most brands have them I just get the Woolies home brand ones.

[sandgrubber]

11 hours ago, Ricky2 said:

It should be sardines in water right? unfortunately i've never seen them at the supermarkets where i live, not even online.

When i first got her i thought it was going to be an issue with the weight as they are known to always want to eat.Her littermates are like that,they devour their food in seconds, but mine doesn't which is both good and bad, funnily enough i'm having trouble on making her eat,she is in no way skinny which i'm relieved about,and i know there's nothing wrong with her because she goes crazy with our food which we never or rarely give a bite of and whenever i give her raw bones.But it does worry me when i go for long runs with her and she wont eat.

I think she is just cheeky because sometimes she'll immediately start eating when im near her,and i always go away because i think she made a habit of it.

Maybe im just worrying too much.

I really wanted her to try the salmon version from the brand she's on but the composition isn't as good as the chicken and lamb is (has cereals and by products,but has yucca and beetroot extract if im not mistaken).

oh well i'll do what i can ahah

Sardines in oil are fine.  Just more fat, so could lead to weight gain.  Dribble the oil over other stuff if you want her to eat it.  Most dogs LOVE meat or fish flavored oil/fat. I seem to remember that oil preserves some nutrients (vitamins A or D?) better than water. 

Yes... Worry less.  You'll be fine. 

[Christine_72]

My dog is 13mths old and i have never given him a bowl of plain dry kibble, I have a huge variety of different meats that i add.

 

 Green tripe

Raw chicken/quail eggs

 Lamb mince

Pork mince

Beef mince

Turkey/chicken parts

Beef/lamb heart

Chicken gizzards

Duck

Liver

Beef Loaf

 

I feed raw meaty bones every 2nd day for oral health and chewing pleasure.

 

I also get a chicken carcass and cook it on high in a slow cooker for 24 hours, I add add liver and pumpkin at the end to add more flavour. When it's done , the bones turn to mush, I remove the liver, and then i blend the whole lot up, freeze in ice cube trays and add 1 or 2 cubes to his meals. This is what i call super powered bone broth, my dog goes nuts for it.

 

I've fed all of my dogs over the past 30 years with this kind of variety, i've never had any problems, and they've all enjoyed each and every meal

 

[Ricky2]

11 hours ago, Christine_72 said:

My dog is 13mths old and i have never given him a bowl of plain dry kibble, I have a huge variety of different meats that i add.

 

 Green tripe

Raw chicken/quail eggs

 Lamb mince

Pork mince

Beef mince

Turkey/chicken parts

Beef/lamb heart

Chicken gizzards

Duck

Liver

Beef Loaf

 

I feed raw meaty bones every 2nd day for oral health and chewing pleasure.

 

I also get a chicken carcass and cook it on high in a slow cooker for 24 hours, I add add liver and pumpkin at the end to add more flavour. When it's done , the bones turn to mush, I remove the liver, and then i blend the whole lot up, freeze in ice cube trays and add 1 or 2 cubes to his meals. This is what i call super powered bone broth, my dog goes nuts for it.

 

I've fed all of my dogs over the past 30 years with this kind of variety, i've never had any problems, and they've all enjoyed each and every meal

 

Thanks,Do you give it raw or do you cook it? I read that you shouldnt mix raw meat with kibble as they take different times digesting.(?)

I will try giving her bone broth,Do you let the cubes thaw before finally feeding it to him?

 

My grandparents have chicken and today i just went and got lots of eggs,I'll boil 1 and mix it in with her kibble,i think i'll just start of with half as it is going to be her first time.

 

[Christine_72]

I feed both raw and cooked. I've heard the "dont mix raw with kibble" thing, which i think is total bunk, it makes no sense! I've always done it, and never had a problem.

 

Yes, i thaw the cubes before feeding.

[sandgrubber]

I fed raw for many years...even picked up ~100kg of chicken frames and ~50 kg of horse carrots a week for delivery to other raw feeders.  I moved and lost my source of good, cheap raw, and left my big freezer behind.  I now feed what most would consider a mediocre dry food (Coprice) and throw in occasional eggs, vegetables and scraps.  To be honest, the biggest differences I find are

1. Dry food is MUCH less hassle. 

2. It is a lot easier to regulate a dog's weight on dry food (Labradors pig out on frames and portion control is tedious). 

My dogs continue to be healthy, my old girl is 14 yr 5 mo,. Coats are glossy, poos well formed. 

Until I see a well conducted study or two that shows raw feeding is worth the trouble and expense, I wouldn't consider going back to BARF. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by sandgrubber
Minor addition

[sandgrubber]

On 12/28/2018 at 9:14 AM, Ricky2 said:

Hello, i have a 1.5 year old lab mix around 44 pounds who's been fed only kibble since a puppy,not knowing much about nutrition i started her on pedigree and purina friskies thinking it was good quality kibble just to later on find out it was horrible.Since i am and was on a tight budget i had to keep her on a white brand but have recently found a better kibble thats on my budget (1st ingredient is hydrolised chicken,corn,rice..salmon oil,yucca extract) not the best,but better than what i was giving her(cereals,by-products). I do give her raw marrow bones from time to time so she can gnaw on but immediatly remove them once she starts eating little bits of bone. 

 

 

 

What makes you think the diet is horrible?  Until long term feeding studies are conducted, it's damn hard to say what is a good diet.  The marketing department of the pet food industry is doing a fantastic job making people feel guilty about not paying $6/kg and up for dog food, but there's precious little evidence that the high price stuff is better.

I prefer to avoid imports, avoid companies that spend big on advertising, avoid fancy shaped and multi-colored biscuits and go for something plain that targets country people and working dogs. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by sandgrubber

[PANDI-GIRL]

@sandgrubber   Do you think nutrition is different for a Large dog  vs  A small dog,  I had read somewhere that small dogs need more protein & fat,  compared with Large dog needs 

 

Where it says Overseas under your name,  do you mean Tasmania!   

[sandgrubber]

14 hours ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

@sandgrubber   Do you think nutrition is different for a Large dog  vs  A small dog,  I had read somewhere that small dogs need more protein & fat,  compared with Large dog needs 

 

Where it says Overseas under your name,  do you mean Tasmania!   

I doubt it's that simple (large vs small), and would guess that there's a wide variation in both.  Hard working dogs do seem to need higher protein and fat. Obviously, if the pancreas is weak, less fat. 

Overseas means NZ, South Island 

[Ricky2]

@sandgrubberyes that is true,it's a shame we cant trust food companies, all they care is about cashing in $$$ , i've seen dogs on cheap food and scraps that outlived those on premium,and looked amazing, what works with other dogs may not work with yours etc..in my case since i switched to this new one i have seen a bit of an improvement, she hasnt been eating much which slightly worries me at times-i thought she was going to big a massive pig as shes a lab mix but i was wrong(she is when something picks her interest), in terms of stools, coat etc..i have seen some improvement from when she was on the cheaper brand,her coat used to be terrible,her stools soft and huge,but now they are slightly firmer and smaller(sorry about the topic ).

Also this a slightly out of topic but should i feed her boiled carrots or raw? (I will mix that up in kibble) Do i have to peel  them? 

Also in terms of fruit what can i mix in her kibble?

 

And again,sorry for the change of topic,what do y'all think about kibble with rosemary? I have heard it has a lot of benefits but can trigger seizures.