Bull terrier puppy mill

[Two Best Dogs!]

Oh sweethearts :’(

 

that is such poor poor standard of care. They seem like nice dogs, hope you get a home guys!

 

(I might want a bull terrier one day   Maybe my retirement dog?)

 

[Little Gifts]

I've been following it on Facebook. These breeders have prize winning show dogs. I feel like someone else in the dog world had to know conditions there were not up to par. There are bitches with stained bellies from lying in their own waste for prolonged periods. Many of them were living in confined spaces in tin sheds in Gladstone in this heat!

 

In other news there is an existing kennel/puppy farm wanting to expand its operation on the Sunshine Coast. That is also getting huge coverage and public outcry on social media. This one wants to run 200 kennels, have 100 breeding pens (only 50 bitches though, apparently) and from memory 16.5 staff to run all that. They were not previously approved so wanting to expand will hopefully be their undoing.

 

People are getting angry over puppy farming up here and it is about bloody time.

[asal]

unreal??? a week of character assination and it finally gets a mention on Dogzonline.....

 

 

 

now for the REAL STORY....

 

J M shared a post.

Admin · 19 hrs

Another point of view to the recent RSPCA bullterrier seige.

 

 

Mi Ownedbyanimals W

20 hrs

SHARED POST.... and no I didn't write it....... Please keep it civil.

Okay so here's the real story, a more disgusting tale of woe than you could ever have imagined. 
The property owner did not have 110 breeding dogs. Some of them were rescue dogs awaiting new homes and some were other people's dogs who had been left with the property owner to keep them safe from the fires in the area.
The fire situation worsened and early in the morning she crated all the dogs ready to evacuate them. When it became obvious that she wasn't going to be able to get them all out in time, in desparation she called the rspca to see if they would/could assist with evacuating the dogs. 
The rspca said they wouldn't help unless she surrendered them to the rspca and so she was placed in a drastic situation and agreed to surrender them.
The rspca arrived on the property and they then locked the owner in the house for 14 hours, refusing to let her tend to the dogs or give them water. This included a 2 week old puppy which was being bottle fed, they refused to let her feed it. God knows what has happened to that little one now as the rspca were too busy letting the whole situation deteriorate so they could get the pictures they needed of dogs panting in crates with no water etc etc.
The dogs included imports and some of the top Bull Terrier bloodlines in the world. These lines have all now been lost to Australia. All dogs over 12 months old were given to Bull Terrier Rescue under rspca terms ie they MUST be desexed before being rehomed. The 40 young dogs and puppies have been kept by the rspca and they will be sold for top dollar. A nice little nestegg for the rspca, $80,000+ for very little work.
The dogs were all in excellent condition and they were clean, fat, healthy and in fact could have left the property and gone straight to a show they were so clean. They all had wagging tails and did not show a single sign that any had been abused or neglected in any way. The video of the dogs in the dirty crates was taken after the 14 hours of rspca neglect had made the situation look as bad as it possibly could look. You'll notice the video only featured one room and the shed and did not show any other areas of the property ie her runs, her facilities etc.
I can't even imagine the pain the owner has been put through watching the rspca do this to her beloved dogs by keeping her away from them on a very hot day with an imminent fire threat looming. Then to wake up the next morning and not have a single dog on the property would be soul destroying. Wondering if the bottle fed baby had survived. My heart really goes out to the owner of the dogs, l hope she gets help and does not have a complete breakdown over what they did to her beloved dogs. 
The rspca have now truly shown what an absolutely despicable bunch of psychopaths they are. Liars, bullies and completely heartless, they should not be given a mouse to care for let alone valuable breeding dogs like these.
So now you have all the facts, yes there are always two sides to any story, and this just shows you can never believe any story the rspca tells

 

 

 

FOOTNOTE.

 

G K Not to mention they stuffed the dogs together in horse floats and trailers- no matter they’re stressed out Bull Terriers and guess what- 2 dogs put down once arrived at rspca because they’d mauled each other on the trip to shelter. Bravo rspca. f***ing disgrace.

 

Manage

 

S  AND NO one is going to sue them for aggravated cruelty either!

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by asal

[asal]

nothing like trial by media is there...

 

 

another post people are asking to be shared.....

 

 

 

 

sorry

 

have to copy and paste.....

 

...So several days ago the RSPCA gained around 110 Bull Terriers from a breeder.

What we do know so far is:

The RSPCA said they were seized, owner said she called and asked for help to move them due to bushfires

The RSPCA contacted every media outlet and told them how bad the conditions were and how the dogs were in terrible condition.

The RSPCA when called by consumers not 24hrs later said that the dogs would be for sale at around $1800 each for puppies.

The RSPCA kept all the puppies and younger dogs and now (not more that 4 days later) have them up for sale. The older (ie ones they can’t sell) were given to Bull Terrier rescue UNDESEXED and with no support for vets bills/care offered.

The RSPCA is now calling for donations to pay for the vet bills (what bills?) for the dogs they are SELLING

What other organization has the power to take your property and then 4 days later sell it and still be able to cry poor???
Time that the RSPCA was stripped of it’s power by the Government.

To the ANKC – Please set up a fund to help breeders. Make sure if they do need help they can call their Canine Association first and know they will get support. Don’t let ANY ANKC breeder get to the point where they have to ask the RSPCA for help. I am happy to make the first donation.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by asal

[Tassie]

Yes, the FB stories are very different.   You'd have to think the true story lies somewhere in between.   And the physical condition of at least some of the dogs photographed do not seem like 'typical' neglected puppy farm animals.  At least the ones I've seen look generally clean, healthy weights (maybe a bit over), bright eyes .. and in some pics what struck me was clean feet and neatly trimmed nails.   Again .. not typical of what is seen in most puppy farm photos.   Like others, I've lost respect for the RSPCA over the years, so the whole things seems a bit suss.   Hope not too many of these poor dogs suffer as a result of what looks as though it could have been handled a lot better.   Microchip records could be a good start, you'd think.

[Little Gifts]

Interesting. I agree based on the additional information that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. RSPCA said they were notified by someone independent who had seen 5 of the dogs and had concerns. Very different scenario. There is also a photo of a bunch of dogs standing against a fence and at least 2 of the bitches have scoured bellies and the only time I have seen that before is from dogs left to lie in their own waste for extended periods of time. I am certainly not trusting of how the RSPCA behaves but something still smells a little fishy here. Thank you for the additional links Asal. I will be doing more reading.

[asal]

29 minutes ago, Tassie said:

Yes, the FB stories are very different.   You'd have to think the true story lies somewhere in between.   And the physical condition of at least some of the dogs photographed do not seem like 'typical' neglected puppy farm animals.  At least the ones I've seen look generally clean, healthy weights (maybe a bit over), bright eyes .. and in some pics what struck me was clean feet and neatly trimmed nails.   Again .. not typical of what is seen in most puppy farm photos.   Like others, I've lost respect for the RSPCA over the years, so the whole things seems a bit suss.   Hope not too many of these poor dogs suffer as a result of what looks as though it could have been handled a lot better.   Microchip records could be a good start, you'd think.

I noticed the same thing, and the fact that despite the words "filth" the only filth to be seen was shredded paper and we all know how many doo's a dog that size does in a day... not one in sight....that's when I began to wonder..... obviously these dogs are so well trained to wait to be let out for a run, not one had made a mess in its cage???????   

 

or someones working full time pooper scoopering?????

 

there's a story here we are not being told.... only took a week to come to light...remarkable it did though..

Edited December 5, 2018 by asal

[juice]

RSPCA showing their true colours yet again. i hate them.

[Two Best Dogs!]

8 hours ago, Little Gifts said:

I've been following it on Facebook. These breeders have prize winning show dogs. I feel like someone else in the dog world had to know conditions there were not up to par. There are bitches with stained bellies from lying in their own waste for prolonged periods. Many of them were living in confined spaces in tin sheds in Gladstone in this heat!

 

In other news there is an existing kennel/puppy farm wanting to expand its operation on the Sunshine Coast. That is also getting huge coverage and public outcry on social media. This one wants to run 200 kennels, have 100 breeding pens (only 50 bitches though, apparently) and from memory 16.5 staff to run all that. They were not previously approved so wanting to expand will hopefully be their undoing.

 

People are getting angry over puppy farming up here and it is about bloody time.

I’m sorry I don’t meant to quote you but it won’t undo. Although I do agree on getting angry about mass puppy farming. Is that the one being built near a known koala area?

 

Theres another video that displays more of the conditions. 

 

And photos

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/crime-and-justice/100-bull-terrier-dogs-seized-from-queensland-puppy-farm-horror/news-story/72879179fe658b01c66286dfac249d22

 

 And while I can appreciate they seem well fed and some of them are not in fecal loaded crates and it’s not the WORST puppy mill bust in the world - this is not appropriate care. Even for transit. others are in very dirty crates and the amount of mess is not the amount Id expect to develop over a couple of days of being in transit.  Some of those the ?newspaper? has dried into dirty sheets. It does imply a bit more time than a few days. I see no beds but those ones on the cement are hopefully a temporary location after being moved. 

 

Be it a puppy mill or a side rescue gone borderline hoarder or truely a fire rescue attempt that failed.  That is not acceptable conditions of care at all. There are like...900ish bull terriers registered with ankc and this is 110 that may or not be registered. That’s a lot of dogs to be spread across tiny batteredcrates  

 

Im sorry Asal, I know this matters to you greatly but I struggle to find these Facebook posts shared above to be convincing on the quality of care of these animals. They are the only source of information for these claims. If more information comes out - ideally via their lawyer or court case log with attached evidence or their own news contact - on their reasoning for this situation and how it got so bad - that would be better value to read that could help add light to the breeders point of view. 

 

And if it is a case of side rescue gone overload, a chance to highlight what resources are available to a rescue getting overloaded with too many dogs (and propose making them for areas without such resources) so they don’t reach this stage. 

Edit: the rspca put out a new post about assorted parts of the rumours. I don't particularly like the wording at the start leading into it much, but the concise addressing of their side is appreciated.

The thing is, if I gave Thyme to my breeder to care for and Thyme was in such crowded conditions in a 40c day, in tiny cages like this, even for an hour I'd be mad. To be in them for so long as to make such a mess as these ones have. It's really not acceptable care. Even for transit, it is not acceptable. So even the best case scenario, it is not good. They do look well fed, and they're all microchipped. That is a point for the breeder, but it's the containment that is very wrong. If it's a case of her  overwhelmed, I do hope she get's the help she needs to not repeat this situation.

https://www.rspcaqld.org.au/blog/fact-check/bull-terrier-raid-get-the-facts?fbclid=IwAR2zFI-nj1Q1fmm_L1NytjTw7aWuWHVhNaFytjmX8-KH9kscts8-qD2ijmA

oh there's a timeline now. I haven't read it, its cool enough to walk the dogs:
https://www.rspcaqld.org.au/blog/breaking-news/bull-terriers-rescue-with-timeline-of-seizure

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Thistle the Best Dog

[asal]

excellent rebuttal.

 

urine soaked flooring means all that fluffy paper would not be dry shredded...it would be liquid mush? But hey what would I know... dry urine perhaps?

 

no mention that it is fact that they only kept 40 to sell and are available now.....the puppies

 

they do automatically, vaccinate, flea and worm all dogs, that was on Stringlys bill too, even though he had only been vaccinated the week before they stole him that day and flea and heartworm treated 24 hours before .... how the double dosage so close together of a 1.2 kg bit of nothing, didn't kill him was another miracle. (yes I have anger management issues. so would you if it happened to your dog and you were told what happened is YOUR  fault). 

 

all the adults have been given to the bull terrier rescue , and no money given to them to pay for their desexing which is one of the condition that must be met before they can  rehome them and or retrained if does need to be done, certainly  nothing for the adults will be paid for 

by the rspca...

Edited December 5, 2018 by asal

[Two Best Dogs!]

There is no denying that you have had a horrible experience that has impacted you significantly and I hope I don’t come across as dismissing it. it has happened to you and can’t just turn feelings off  

 

I think there is certainly a place to scrutinise how the rspca does things (or does not do things!) and for increased transparency on their processes and results, for better communication with people and promoting dog education - I could go on I’ve got loads of thoughts on that - while also acknowledging this particular situation is way below standards    

 

 

 

[asal]

1 hour ago, Thistle the Best Dog said:

There is no denying that you have had a horrible experience that has impacted you significantly and I hope I don’t come across as dismissing it. it has happened to you and can’t just turn feelings off  

 

I think there is certainly a place to scrutinise how the rspca does things (or does not do things!) and for increased transparency on their processes and results, for better communication with people and promoting dog education - I could go on I’ve got loads of thoughts on that - while also acknowledging this particular situation is way below standards    

 

 

 

Been campaigning for transparency AND avenue of appeal SINCE 1995 after what happened to my friend Marion Alcorn and her ten Arabian's,  what then happened to Stringy was so shocking, afraid it broke me badly, yet i already knew after what happened to Marion and her horses, human welfare is zero and animal welfare is not on their agenda, yet maybe I still believed what happened to her and her four mares, three colts and three fillies  was a one off. Well until I learned no one is safe.. as for even a hint of at least an avenue of appeal,..................... so far, ZILCH!

 

i AND SO many others thought after the Waterways enquiry and the deaths of the two Koala's, particularly in light of Leon Mills beautifully written submission by an ex Public Prosecutor would have achieved something... but no, utterly ignored.

Edited December 5, 2018 by asal

[Maddy]

Asal, for what it's worth, I believe animal welfare should absolutely begin with helping people to be the best carers they can be for their animals. Having said that, many involved in welfare become very burnt-out and cynical, to such an extent that they can only see the worst side of people. That's not to say the accused is an angel (from looking at the condition of some of the dogs, I'd say there were certainly some serious welfare concerns) but that demonising her also swings too far in the other direction. Perhaps things did just get out of hand, perhaps she did willingly sign some of the dogs over, but evidently (from the forum posts you quoted) she has also been dishonest about the circumstances that led to the seizing of the dogs. And any reasonable person would have to wonder what other "facts" of her story may be questionable. This doesn't make the breeder a monster but it also doesn't speak highly of her character.

 

On the other side of things, the fact that the RSPCA elected to retain only the easily saleable dogs is not especially surprising. I'm of the opinion that the enforcement of legislation (in this case, animal welfare legislation) should never be placed in the hands of outside organisations. The general public wouldn't accept outsourced police, but we accept the RSPCA as an enforcement agency without any questioning, despite the fact that it raises questions of conflicting interests. And this case is a good example of how legitimate welfare enforcement could easily be seen as a money grab.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Maddy

[Pjrt]

: 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Scratch

[asal]

1 hour ago, Maddy said:

Asal, for what it's worth, I believe animal welfare should absolutely begin with helping people to be the best carers they can be for their animals. Having said that, many involved in welfare become very burnt-out and cynical, to such an extent that they can only see the worst side of people. That's not to say the accused is an angel (from looking at the condition of some of the dogs, I'd say there were certainly some serious welfare concerns) but that demonising her also swings too far in the other direction. Perhaps things did just get out of hand, perhaps she did willingly sign some of the dogs over, but evidently (from the forum posts you quoted) she has also been dishonest about the circumstances that led to the seizing of the dogs. And any reasonable person would have to wonder what other "facts" of her story may be questionable. This doesn't make the breeder a monster but it also doesn't speak highly of her character.

 

On the other side of things, the fact that the RSPCA elected to retain only the easily saleable dogs is not especially surprising. I'm of the opinion that the enforcement of legislation (in this case, animal welfare legislation) should never be placed in the hands of outside organisations. The general public wouldn't accept outsourced police, but we accept the RSPCA as an enforcement agency without any questioning, despite the fact that it raises questions of conflicting interests. And this case is a good example of how legitimate welfare enforcement could easily be seen as a money grab.

I agree with all but one very important point you make..... " (from looking at the condition of some of the dogs, I'd say there were certainly some serious welfare concerns)"  that was not correct, every single dog was not only in good condition without exception all were over optimum body weight... one dog and one dog only had a sore face.

 

what no one has mentioned, and it did happen.. despite the fact they could easily have simply loaded the dogs in those crates into the vehicles and horse floats they removed them in, they chose not too.  they put the dogs loose in the horse floats... because of this lapse of judgement two of the dogs with no health issues before they left the property, had the be put down due the the extent of their injuries due to being mauled by the other dogs they were put in with loose. Hello folks, bull terriers too can the pretty aggressive to each other, they too were a fighting breed during their formation...... That is pure negligence, same as the Waterways koala deaths in their custody. ... even if they didn't want to keep her transport crates, and that's what they were in those sheds there was nothing to stop them using them and returned when they came for the next batch as stated in their own press release?

 

I noticed the rspca made no mention of the two deaths, in any of their press releases..

Edited December 6, 2018 by asal

[asal]

certainly learning to walk fast, as I recall, in the earlier press release most of the dogs didn't know how to walk when let out of the cages? unsocalised, traumatised?  forget the rest of the reasons they need funds to rehabilitate them, Well the expected $60,000 for the 40 puppies will help (a little) towards expenses surely?

 

 

 

BULL TERRIERS UPDATE

BULL TERRIERS UPDATE 
Dogs from the recent Bull Terrier raid have started to slowly make their way to adoptions at our Brisbane, Wacol and Noosa campuses where they are very quickly finding loving forever homes. Once available you will be able to see them online atwww.rspcaqld.org.au/adopt. This website is automatically updated on availability status within 30-45 minutes of the change taking place.

There will be no holds or interested parties taken for these dogs. Interstate dog adoptions may be available on a case-by-case basis. As more of the dogs get ready for their forever homes we will update you with any other RSPCA adoption locations across Queensland. Please be patient with our teams as we manage this interest.

Adult dogs will be $500 to adopt and young puppies will be $1,500. All dogs will be desexed, microchipped, vaccinated and up-to-date with their worming just like all of our pets. 

If you’re interested in making an ongoing commitment to volunteer or foster some of our pets in need you can apply online atwww.rspcaqld.org.au/volunteer orwww.rspcaqld.org.au/foster. 

Thank you in advance for your understanding and patience.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by asal

[asal]

 

Just appeared on Faceplant.. further to the first ones I copied and pasted.

 

"

D B

 

You will all no doubt remember my post the other day where l said "here's the real facts".
I have to fess up that l got some of it wrong. You would no doubt realise there is a lot of outrage and confusion following an extraordinary event like the Bull Terrier debacle. With many true statements interwoven with supposition. I will now state that I stand by 70% of what l stated in that post as being true. I can now say ...
a) the owner did not ring the rspca asking for help - it was a full on raid which they'd been planning for some time, 
b) she did not have the dogs ready for evacuation due to the fire, the dogs were never in any danger from the fire.
The rspca has now issued a statement to "dispel the rumors", which pretty much addresses each point raised in my post, in exactly the same order as my post. My post has now gone viral and it's unfortunate that it was not 100% accurate, but now that l know much more about how it all went down let me just say that only a couple of points were blatantly wrong, as mentioned above. 
The lady's vet was interviewed by the rspca yesterday, no joy for them there. Neighbour's are saying ALL the dogs were always spotless, and exercised every day, multiple times per day.
Due to upcoming action l cannot disclose too much more but will endeavor to update you in coming weeks."

Edited December 6, 2018 by asal

[Tassie]

Yep, pretty well socialised and happy and well muscled  … for traumatised dogs kept confined and unexercised in cages.      Just sayin'.      

[asal]

found 3

 

https://www.rspcaqld.org.au/adopt/search?animalType=3&shelter=18&breed=88&gender=&name=&age=0&advanceBody=false

 

and more at brisbane

 

https://www.rspcaqld.org.au/adopt/search?animalType=3&shelter=75&breed=88&gender=&name=&age=0&advanceBody=false

Edited December 6, 2018 by asal

[juice]

Those dogs look in prettY good nick and happy to me, maybe just too many dogs in care tho?

I still think the RSPCA took the the lets do a money grab instead of lets warn her to cut down numbers .

The fact that 2 died on the way is pathetic and shows they have nfi.