Snake aversion training

[Guest]

On 14/11/2018 at 8:13 PM, Maddy said:

It probably depends an awful lot on the climate of your area, the available food sources, the abundance of predators, the species that inhabit your area, and so on and so forth. 

I live on the outer edge of an outer suburb that backs onto bush that basically stretches all the way to the east coast of Tasmania. There are plenty of small streams and rivers to attract frogs and other small animals that a snake might eat. The climate is temperate (so snakes may go into torpor, depending on how cold the winter is), all three Tasmanian species can be found, but there are abundant birds of prey and large gulls (brown falcon, pacific gulls and kelp gulls, are the most frequent I see). I've lived in the same house for the last 12 years and have never seen a single snake in our yard. Or at the lake we occasionally visit. Or down near the river. Nada. Maybe exceptionally good luck, maybe local predators apply enough pressure that the joe blake populations never get high enough to increase the odds of us seeing any. 

Pers's situation is different. And yours will likely be different from both of ours. It's a matter of assessing your personal risk and managing from there. Personally, given my dogs are sighthounds and prefer to spend their days lolling on the couch in my absence anyway, I believe it's safer for them to be inside. Snakes are not our concern so much, but if my dogs are safely stowed in my house, I know there's no chance of a gate being "accidentally" opened or a straying dog getting into my yard, or my dogs chasing down and scoring themselves a neighbour's cat or inclement weather causing them discomfort or even harm. In 12 years of keeping my dogs inside, the following accidents/catastrophes have happened: a few wee stains on the carpet. The millions of inside hours clocked up by unattended pets, wherein absolutely nothing of note happens, do not make interesting news stories  

 

On 15/11/2018 at 9:58 AM, persephone said:

I didn't mean to scare you  APOLOGIES   

before you DO take up drinking full time ...   

we live in the middle of nowhere .. in the proper 'outback' ... and because we provide  water for stock/pets ,  have a rodent population  ( almost always wherever there is human habitation)  , snakes find it a better spot than out in the blazing sand !
Our nearest town is almost 100km away ..if that helps you figure things out , OK ? 
losing a dog to snakebite is devastating 
We have multiple dogs at any one time

Char, they are working sheepdogs  most of them enjoy retirement into their teens 

We see snakes regularly here - they are part of our life ..like kangaroos, echidnas and other wildlife . 
Snakes out in THEIR territory are magic . 
in OUR territory ..well ...unwelcome...

the number of dog deaths by snakebite ? probably unknown ...as many would be dogs living remotely on sheep/cattle stations, or camps  etc .

Yes it happens ..but so do incidents with traffic ....

 

MOST definitely !!

,

 

 

 

Just fill their time with good stuff  so they concentrate on that  

When I lived in the City..I was always worrying about unlocked gates/traffic/nasty neighbours... it was much more stressful .

 

 

On 15/11/2018 at 1:55 PM, Tassie said:

I've lived in the same place for over 30 years … acre +, with acre blocks around, but on the edge of suburbia.   Has become much more suburban in the vicinity over the years.  There are several acres of dry bush reserve behind me and up and over a ridge, then more suburbia.    Suburb of Hobart, but separated from Hobart itself by hills and bush and acreages.   I had 2 big snakes on my place in the early years .. probably copperhead .. both happened to get caught up in bird netting and it was in the days before reptile rescue.  Also had a live whip snake left on the bathroom floor by a cat who used to collect lizards and keep them in the bathtub .  She presumably had trouble getting this one into the tub.  Oh yes, and another whip snake that she had killed and left in a back courtyard.  Another cat was having a lovely time playing with what might have been a whippy or a baby tiger or copperhead.  Now I think about it, that was quite a snakey time as new houses were being built on the snakes' territory.     Touch wood, haven't seen one for many years, though one neighbour had one in their yard, almost certainly washed down the hill from the adjacent reserve by the big floods we had here in May.

 

But yes, several dogs die in southern Tasmania from snake bite every year, and others are saved by prompt (and very expensive) treatment.   A young dog in my foundation agility class at dog club was killed three weeks ago, and a bitch in the same family was bitten but survived after antivenene and ventilation.  They do live rural though.

Thanks guys ❤️ I’m pleased to report that I haven’t fallen into a bottle.

Or been admitted to a psych ward.

 

my pup doesn’t live rurally or in a newly developed area, which I’ll take it from your info is a pretty big factor to take into account.

I do know that years ago (like, 50 ish?) when his home was one of those new developments, there were a few *ewww* mice about thanks to their environment basically being decimated (sorry, mice). 

They made for fun catchings for a certain Aussie terrier cross ;p but she also lived mainly inside so....guess that makes sense. 

 

I reckon if I were dealing with a new suburb, or one with nasty neighbours, I’d probably be thinking differently.

 

I’m possibly also scarred for life by the tales of “when I went to let Sheeba out to go to bathroom because Anne was out, she’d vomited in the laundry, she may have got a bit hot? And she was upset that she had me there and didn’t want to come with me and was all confused and embarrassed about her vomit.......”

I guess our own experiences and situations contribute to our reasons. Or paranoia in my situation. 

 

Speaking of, if y’all wouldn’t mind talking me down from a ledge when necessary, it would be much appreciated.

There just ain’t enough Valium in the world to ameliorate the whole THEIR POTENTIAL QUALITY OF LIFE  IS DETERMINED BY YOU, ONLY YOU, AND THE LIKELIHOOD IS THAT YOU SUCK AT LIFE SO LET US PRAY FOR YOUR PUPPY thing

 

thanks guys ❤️

[Maddy]

46 minutes ago, CharbearsMa said:

Speaking of, if y’all wouldn’t mind talking me down from a ledge when necessary, it would be much appreciated.

There just ain’t enough Valium in the world to ameliorate the whole THEIR POTENTIAL QUALITY OF LIFE  IS DETERMINED BY YOU, ONLY YOU, AND THE LIKELIHOOD IS THAT YOU SUCK AT LIFE SO LET US PRAY FOR YOUR PUPPY thing

 

thanks guys ❤️

I wouldn't worry to much about it. Different people prioritise different risks. I'm sure some people would be aghast that I don't routinely use tick prevention (based on 12 years of living in this area and never had a single tick), whereas I would never dream of just walking my dogs off-leash down the street. Or anywhere not fully fenced, really. 

Then there's FB, full of warning and panics. Some of the warnings may be based on some amount of fact (and you should weigh up your personal risks), others are just copy/pasted rubbish and can be safely ignored. 

And again, on FB, there is endless shaming for your choices. Feed kibble to your dog? You're a stooge and your dog will get cancer and die because you're too lazy to research. Feed raw? You're probably a Karen Becker-loving crackpot and you're willing to risk your dog's health based on wacko conspiracy theories and Rodney Habib videos. Use Nexgard? Well, your dog is going to have a seizure and die, all because you're a shill for Big Pharma. Don't use Nexgard? See Karen Becker bit above^, but add 90% more capslock screeching.

At the end of the day..  Do the best you can do, based on the information available to you. And if someone is telling you to do/buy something for the "good of your dog", maybe make sure they aren't ethically compromised before putting your dog's health in their hands (*cough* Jean Dodds *coughcough*)

[asal]

On 14/11/2018 at 8:43 PM, Maddy said:

It probably depends an awful lot on the climate of your area, the available food sources, the abundance of predators, the species that inhabit your area, and so on and so forth. 

I live on the outer edge of an outer suburb that backs onto bush that basically stretches all the way to the east coast of Tasmania. There are plenty of small streams and rivers to attract frogs and other small animals that a snake might eat. The climate is temperate (so snakes may go into torpor, depending on how cold the winter is), all three Tasmanian species can be found, but there are abundant birds of prey and large gulls (brown falcon, pacific gulls and kelp gulls, are the most frequent I see). I've lived in the same house for the last 12 years and have never seen a single snake in our yard. Or at the lake we occasionally visit. Or down near the river. Nada. Maybe exceptionally good luck, maybe local predators apply enough pressure that the joe blake populations never get high enough to increase the odds of us seeing any. 

Pers's situation is different. And yours will likely be different from both of ours. It's a matter of assessing your personal risk and managing from there. Personally, given my dogs are sighthounds and prefer to spend their days lolling on the couch in my absence anyway, I believe it's safer for them to be inside. Snakes are not our concern so much, but if my dogs are safely stowed in my house, I know there's no chance of a gate being "accidentally" opened or a straying dog getting into my yard, or my dogs chasing down and scoring themselves a neighbour's cat or inclement weather causing them discomfort or even harm. In 12 years of keeping my dogs inside, the following accidents/catastrophes have happened: a few wee stains on the carpet. The millions of inside hours clocked up by unattended pets, wherein absolutely nothing of note happens, do not make interesting news stories  

I left Jodie in the house one day when I went shopping, came home to the tops of the two fish tanks caved in, the african violets and their soil all in the fish tanks, somehow the fish were still alive in all that mess, frantic catching and cleaning that took half a day.. one tank is six foot the other seven ,, so big tanks lots of water, but then there was lots of african violets... 

 

Jodie, glowing with pride at what a great view she discovered to be found on top of the tanks..sheesh

 

had nightmares for months, at least the tops didn't break, just the movable lids  fell in so she had not cuts anywhere. think she must have been part otter she was sopping wet and loving it, suppose she had tried catching the fish but failed fortunately.

 

Sold the frontosia for $2,500 rather that go through that again.. had ten of them worth $250 each..

Edited November 24, 2018 by asal

[persephone]

7 hours ago, asal said:

I left Jodie in the house one day when I went shopping...

OH MY !!!!

THat was night mare worthy indeed   I am so glad everyone survived ( well ... apart from your sanity )  ;) 

[Maddy]

On 25/11/2018 at 10:13 AM, asal said:

I left Jodie in the house one day when I went shopping, came home to the tops of the two fish tanks caved in, the african violets and their soil all in the fish tanks, somehow the fish were still alive in all that mess, frantic catching and cleaning that took half a day.. one tank is six foot the other seven ,, so big tanks lots of water, but then there was lots of african violets... 

 

Jodie, glowing with pride at what a great view she discovered to be found on top of the tanks..sheesh

 

had nightmares for months, at least the tops didn't break, just the movable lids  fell in so she had not cuts anywhere. think she must have been part otter she was sopping wet and loving it, suppose she had tried catching the fish but failed fortunately.

 

Sold the frontosia for $2,500 rather that go through that again.. had ten of them worth $250 each..

On the other hand, I've left multiple (four) dogs unattended in the house during the day, and come home to a.. bunch of sleeping dogs. Sometimes the cushions were knocked off the couch by someone trying to snuggle, other times someone had dragged meat out of the bowl and onto the lounge room carpet, but generally, nothing that couldn't just be picked up. The occasional story of chaos doesn't mean that houses are unsafe places for dogs. 

It's about management. Our dogs don't have access to things they could easily get themselves into trouble with. Bins are out of reach, no potted plants, no potentially delicious other pets, no family heirlooms balanced precariously on mantles or accessible shelves. We've always had very tall dogs who could get their noses into a lot of places, but dog-proofing wasn't that hard, even with foster dogs in the house.

[The Spotted Devil]

I have 3 active (2 working lines crazy active) who are inside when we are not at home. They have been conditioned to relax when I leave since they were pups - exercise, training, food toys and large pens as youngsters. They wait until I get home before they start playing, wrestling and pinching shoes! 

[asal]

20 hours ago, Maddy said:

On the other hand, I've left multiple (four) dogs unattended in the house during the day, and come home to a.. bunch of sleeping dogs. Sometimes the cushions were knocked off the couch by someone trying to snuggle, other times someone had dragged meat out of the bowl and onto the lounge room carpet, but generally, nothing that couldn't just be picked up. The occasional story of chaos doesn't mean that houses are unsafe places for dogs. 

It's about management. Our dogs don't have access to things they could easily get themselves into trouble with. Bins are out of reach, no potted plants, no potentially delicious other pets, no family heirlooms balanced precariously on mantles or accessible shelves. We've always had very tall dogs who could get their noses into a lot of places, but dog-proofing wasn't that hard, even with foster dogs in the house.

I suspect someone must have come to the door while I was out and Jody jumped up onto the tank beside the door so she could see who was at the door as the windows run behind the tanks. With a view of the door.

 

she had never done it before.

[Papillon Kisses]

Great podcast: https://www.animaltrainingacademy.com/podcast/training-tidbits/lynn-webb/

[Guest]

On 21/11/2018 at 12:42 AM, Maddy said:

I wouldn't worry to much about it. Different people prioritise different risks. I'm sure some people would be aghast that I don't routinely use tick prevention (based on 12 years of living in this area and never had a single tick), whereas I would never dream of just walking my dogs off-leash down the street. Or anywhere not fully fenced, really. 

Then there's FB, full of warning and panics. Some of the warnings may be based on some amount of fact (and you should weigh up your personal risks), others are just copy/pasted rubbish and can be safely ignored. 

And again, on FB, there is endless shaming for your choices. Feed kibble to your dog? You're a stooge and your dog will get cancer and die because you're too lazy to research. Feed raw? You're probably a Karen Becker-loving crackpot and you're willing to risk your dog's health based on wacko conspiracy theories and Rodney Habib videos. Use Nexgard? Well, your dog is going to have a seizure and die, all because you're a shill for Big Pharma. Don't use Nexgard? See Karen Becker bit above^, but add 90% more capslock screeching.

At the end of the day..  Do the best you can do, based on the information available to you. And if someone is telling you to do/buy something for the "good of your dog", maybe make sure they aren't ethically compromised before putting your dog's health in their hands (*cough* Jean Dodds *coughcough*)

Maddy I just realised I never wrote back to this!!!  I’m sorry!

I’ve never used them either, just because there isn’t anything in the area, only time a dog of ours had fleas was a one off and before I’d been born, back when the developments were new and the  state was pretty much still being colonised ;p 

 

I did read that article, and WOW. That’s frightening stuff. Interesting, but it is scary given how many people will blindly follow whatever advice is given to them.

 

I love reading articles by vets that tout the benefits of using X product only to see the vet, who had managed to write both well and in an almost objective manner, proudly smiling whilst wearing X’s Logo on the shirt. 

Like, dude. You were THIS close. You really gotta concentrate all the way through :p

[Maddy]

There's an awful lot of money to be made out of pet owners, and even more people willing to exploit that fact. 

At the end of the day, you do what works best for you. Personally, I prefer reward-based training, raw feeding, keeping my dogs inside and I use Advocate. Those things work for me. I didn't arrive at that point without accruing a certain amount of understanding of each issue- because I feel that decisions should be made based on all available information- but I don't obsess over them. 

In saying that.. I raw feed, we only buy locally raised meat, slaughtered by a local producer to very high ethical standards, and yet.. I'm currently sharing Cheezels with Wallace  You have to have some fun in life. (Or in this case, alarmingly orange cheese powder)