Low down on labradoodles

[goldieneale]

Hi, 

Older member who hasn't been on here for years. We have a 13 year old golden retriever currently and considering getting a puppy to keep her company.

I wasn't planning on going down the track of a poodle cross but a local person who has been breeding labradoodles for about 9 years has a guardian puppy available. 

They have said they retire the dog at 5 years.  They breed them a maximum of 4 but mostly 3 times.  They pay to desex them at the end.

Can you give me some more input. I am well aware that most people on this forum will be anti....but looking for advice which is why I'm here. 

[grizabella]

I would steer well clear. What does the breeder require of the dog that makes them sure they are breeding quality (health tests, structural soundness, sporting ability, temperament)? Three-four litters within the first five years of a dog's life is huge- most breeders I know would wait until a bitch is at least four (so fully mature) to have a first litter, and there would be gaps between litters of over a year. Aside from the fact that this breeder sounds very profit-driven from the little information given, with that number of puppies being bred I'd wonder how committed the breeder is with regards to lifetime support for the dog. Obviously, with 'doodles' there is a great deal of variation in size, temperament and coat type, which is really something to consider. Everything about this has me seeing red flags up. 

 

What are you actually looking for in a second dog? What draws you particularly to poodle/lab mixes, or is it more to do with the timing of this particular puppy? This being a purebred forum, I doubt anyone will recommend you go down this route, but could assist with finding a dog from a reputable source.

[Rebanne]

I wouldn't get a puppy with a 13 yo. What makes you think she want's company? IMO she deserves to live out her life in peace, not being annoyed by a pesky pup.

 

[_PL_]

If you really must have a labradoodle. Just buy outright, desex and don't help line the pockets of this breeder any further.  

[_PL_]

6 minutes ago, Rebanne said:

I wouldn't get a puppy with a 13 yo. What makes you think she want's company? IMO she deserves to live out her life in peace, not being annoyed by a pesky pup.

 

Good point. We wouldn't rehome in a situation like that although I know so many people who have done it.

[juice]

that is a lot of litters in a short time frame , bred while it’s still a pup itself ! Money grabbers ! I would also be concerned with health issues . These cross’s are a mixed bag , some are skittish hyper nuts others are scared of their own shadow . I’d want a few guarantee’s on health and temp . Also if you decide to go puppy route make sure the older dog has a seperate area to get away . 

[goldieneale]

Thank you.  I posted here as I knew I would get correct information.  I was unaware of the breeding timeframes that breeders usually use so didn't know that this was so excessive.

No, I haven't been particularly interested in 'oodle' breeds it was purely a timing thing.

In regards to the second dog, our goldie was living with our sister for the last 18 months due to us building etc and was living with their 3 year old labrador and she is missing his company.  This is our first dog and we always planned on getting another dog after she was gone but someone mentioned an older dog will teach a pup boundaries and behaviour well.

[juice]

It can work , the older dog will teach boundaries and the pup will copy the older dog , so in a way it’s good . As long as when the pup gets too much the older dog can go sleep without being pestered . 

Perhaps an older lab or Goldie might work from a breeder ? 

[grizabella]

If your old girl would do better with company, I agree with juice that going with a mature adult would be a good way to go. The older dog could be a great role model to a pup, but retriever pups can be little whirlwinds and could be overwhelming. I definitely would steer clear of a young lab/poodle mix in this situation; all the ones I've met (including professionally as a dog washer) have been very bouncy and energetic, often extremely so. As you don't know for sure what you'd get temperamentally, it'd be a gamble, but both labs and standard poodles can be full-on while they're growing up. In your situation, I'd look at contacting breeders with regards to a mature adult of a breed that suits.

[goldieneale]

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep looking and leave the labradoodle idea.

[Dogsfevr]

Whilst owning a dog on breeders terms can work you also need to address the pros and cons and this needs to be clearly understood.

What if the bitch  dies during whelping .

How Long do they keep the bitch for pre birth and what time after birth ,Do they wean pups early to get the bitches back home .

That is a lot of pups in a short time frame as generally you don’t mate till Atleast 2 .

Matings Would then be based on how there season cycle works e do they come in every 6 months .

How will your male cope around a bitch in season ,some males become very stressed a concern in an older dog .

 

Yes you may end up with a cheap dog but you need to determine how this may impact your idea of dog ownership .

 

As for company no guarantees your dog will teach good manners especially as it will become more frail and no guarantee it can tolerate the pup and you being committed to doing the extra work a youngster will need plus teaching the pup to live independently of the other dog unless you plan to get it a mate if it stresses being a only dog suddenly 

[Serket]

I have golden retrievers. We got a puppy when my oldest girl was 5, she was fine with the puppy but we separated them during the day - puppy had larger covered outside pen and they had separate training time and close supervision when together so puppy didn’t overwhelm older dog, she was happy to play but sometimes puppies are just too much and especially so with a 13yr old. 

 

We sadly lost our older girl this February, the younger one (now 4) was lonely and we’ve now got a 15wk old puppy - she is super full on at times and the 4 yr old is a very soft gentle dog and will yield rather than correct for the most part so we make sure she’s not overwhelmed and out of her comfort zone when the puppy is too rude. If you get a puppy you will really need to be prepared to manage them together and look after the needs of both of them.

 

An older dog would be better for your girl I think, and (hopefully still much further) down the track would still provide that older dog role for a puppy 

 

Also I would personally always get a puppy from a registered reputable breeder and ensure full health checks done 

[Apricot]

A year ago we purchased a pup to to keep our 3 year old dog company after the death of her 11 year old companion.  Best thing we ever did.

 

We did look into getting a guardian puppy.  Seriously looked into it, but didn’t go ahead.

 

What put us off was having to pimp her out to have sex and then go on to have puppies.  Even though this is what breeders do, it's the whole point of breeding, it didn't sit comfortably with our family.

 

I can’t see anything wrong with the guardian ship programs that breeders are moving to.  Ethically, I think it's much nicer for a breeding dog to be part of a loving family rather than be locked up in a formal kennel until its breeding retirement.

 

Even though the dog is in your home, the breeder generally covers some costs  such as council registration and introductory obedience training.  Also covering the complete cost of comprehensive health testing at 1 year of age, and then if it gets the all clear, all of the costs associated with breeding.

 

The other thing that put us off was the dog would have to leave our home to have it's puppies.  I think they said it would be away from home for around 8 weeks, 10 days prior to birth then the puppies being weaned by around 7 weeks.  We didn’t want our pet to be away from us for 8 weeks.

 

If those things don’t bother you.  Then go for it.  My sister in law has a dog that is part of a guardianship program and she’s very happy.  Her dog is a purebred not a labradoodle.

 

I’m not sure what sort of labradoodle you have been offered.  You will need to scrutinise the breeder under a microscope because as with ALL breeders there are a lot of cowboys out there.  We have an Australian Labradoodle which is different from first cross LabradorXpoodle that the forum here criticize.  She’s a 5th generation, from health tested parents.  She’s smart, gentle, loving and eager to please.  She looks exactly like what we were expecting,  has a coat like we expected,  a temperament like we were expecting, she is the perfect pet for us and is a lovely companion for our other dog.

 

As for whether a labradoodle is right for you, with all the bias and misinformation here about Australian Labradoodles,  I don’t think this is the right place to gather that information. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Apricot
sp

[Dogsfevr]

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

 

I’m not sure what sort of labradoodle you have been offered.  You will need to scrutinise the breeder under a microscope because as with ALL breeders there are a lot of cowboys out there.  We have an Australian Labradoodle which is different from first cross LabradorXpoodle that the forum here criticize.  She’s a 5th generation, from health tested parents.  She’s smart, gentle, loving and eager to please.  She looks exactly like what we were expecting,  has a coat like we expected,  a temperament like we were expecting, she is the perfect pet for us and is a lovely companion for our other dog.

 

As for whether a labradoodle is right for you, with all the bias and misinformation here about Australian Labradoodles,  I don’t think this is the right place to gather that information. 

Actually many of us on here would deal with more Labradoodle than you give us credit for & you are lucky to have got what you expected ,its not bias its honest facts .
I groom alot of them from ""supposedly well known places " we also board them & there is alot of variety & people guaranteed things that don't often appear .Most have terrible needy natures ,terrible coats to the point groomers dread  when owners book in a labradoodle.
We do two that have amazing coats the rest a matting nightmare .We have the dogs guaranteed for its size when very obviously it wont be .
About 4 have stable natures the rest not that we board .
Ofcourse now you have the split to the Cobberdogs .

 

[westiemum]

16 hours ago, goldieneale said:

Thanks for the advice.  I'll keep looking and leave the labradoodle idea.

Good for you - now I don't have to give you my lengthy 'why this is a really bad idea' post ! LOL!!  The posts from others are absolutely spot on.

 

I had a lonely westie boy after my almost 17 year old girl died back in March this year (not sure of his age as he's a puppy farm rescue - but he's at least 12 years). 

 

While I had hoped he would be OK as an 'only dog' it became clear at the six week mark that he wasn't and seemed to be becoming very quiet, withdrawn and dare I say it 'lonely', after never living without the company of other dogs.

 

So I started checking the DOL mature dogs listing and I waited until my beautiful Mia popped up online in late April(?).  She joined us on Mother's Day, is  four years old and has been the ideal companion for him.  So I suggest you consider the DOL mature dogs listings, check the breeders out carefully and find a good one who you feel will be there to support you for the life of the dog and wait for the right dog to come up.  

 

You obviously like golden's, so if not another golden, I'm sure people here will be happy to give you a hand and make suggestions of another suitable breed.  Well done for asking your questions and taking the advice on here (I usually rue the day I don't) and good luck and I hope it all goes really well for you.   

Edited July 30, 2018 by westiemum
Damn spelling!

[westiemum]

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

A year ago we purchased a pup to to keep our 3 year old dog company after the death of her 11 year old companion.  Best thing we ever did.

 

We did look into getting a guardian puppy.  Seriously looked into it, but didn’t go ahead.

 

What put us off was having to pimp her out to have sex and then go on to have puppies.  Even though this is what breeders do, it's the whole point of breeding, it didn't sit comfortably with our family.

 

I can’t see anything wrong with the guardian ship programs that breeders are moving to.  Ethically, I think it's much nicer for a breeding dog to be part of a loving family rather than be locked up in a formal kennel until its breeding retirement.

 

Even though the dog is in your home, the breeder generally covers some costs  such as council registration and introductory obedience training.  Also covering the complete cost of comprehensive health testing at 1 year of age, and then if it gets the all clear, all of the costs associated with breeding.

 

The other thing that put us off was the dog would have to leave our home to have it's puppies.  I think they said it would be away from home for around 8 weeks, 10 days prior to birth then the puppies being weaned by around 7 weeks.  We didn’t want our pet to be away from us for 8 weeks.

 

Plus we do agility with our dogs and didn’t want to deal with her being on heat around other dogs.

 

If those things don’t bother you.  Then go for it.  My sister in law has a dog that is part of a guardianship program and she’s very happy.  Her dog is a purebred not a labradoodle.

 

I’m not sure what sort of labradoodle you have been offered.  You will need to scrutinise the breeder under a microscope because as with ALL breeders there are a lot of cowboys out there.  We have an Australian Labradoodle which is different from first cross LabradorXpoodle that the forum here criticize.  She’s a 5th generation, from health tested parents.  She’s smart, gentle, loving and eager to please.  She looks exactly like what we were expecting,  has a coat like we expected,  a temperament like we were expecting, she is the perfect pet for us and is a lovely companion for our other dog.

 

As for whether a labradoodle is right for you, with all the bias and misinformation here about Australian Labradoodles,  I don’t think this is the right place to gather that information. 

I'm not going to argue with you. This is not the forum to be promoting cross or mixed breeds and is against forum rules.     

 

You are talking about one dog.  Here are people with decades of  purebreed experience  and rescue  experience with mixed breeds who will never agree with you.  Even the Guide Dogs man in Victoria who started this cross-breeding nonsense wishes he'd never done it.   Whether you like it or not this is a purebreed forum and labrador poodle crosses are cross or mixed breeds, not a recognised breed and the term 'labradoodle' is a marketing term only - designed to be 'cute' and fool uneducated people into thinking they are buying a distinct breed when they are not.  It is unethical and dishonest. 

 

You play the genetic lottery with them - you've been lucky with one dog - many others aren't.   And as the original poster here shows in her original post to breed a four year old 3-4 times in four years is a disgrace, yet shows the true profit motivation behind the breeding of these cross-breeds.

 

Many of us have mixed breed dogs and we adore them - but they are usually from rescues or pounds, are imperfect, not 'designed' and bred for our convenience.

 

 

[Rebanne]

9 hours ago, Apricot said:

 

I can’t see anything wrong with the guardian ship programs that breeders are moving to.  Ethically, I think it's much nicer for a breeding dog to be part of a loving family rather than be locked up in a formal kennel until its breeding retirement.

 

 

Actually all my breeding dogs, past and present, live in the house with me and you'll find many others are the same. I don't ever have enough dogs to need to farm them out to others under the term "guardianship". Just a fancy name to have more dogs to breed and make money from.

[juice]

yep , exactly , means they get more dogs producing puppies , pay no keep for them and hopefully the families then buy them when they are done with them so off their hands. It’s a good money making scheme made to look like they care about the dogs when $ is all they care about . 

[Dogsfevr]

16 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Actually all my breeding dogs, past and present, live in the house with me and you'll find many others are the same. I don't ever have enough dogs to need to farm them out to others under the term "guardianship". Just a fancy name to have more dogs to breed and make money from.

Actually this term is being used by ANKC members with the new laws coming in & i don't see it as an issue depending on the terms..
You have a bred that will never be bred in large quantities & a bred that comes under scrutiny by name so if any new laws came in about Greyhounds could potentiality be devastating ,given the gene pool is so small dogs being placed out as a guardianship programme to ensure a healthy future isn't a bad thing ,the issue is the terms placed on the dogs .In the OP case no sane breeder would consider that remotely ethical .

 

[The Spotted Devil]

I would like to place a bitch or two on breeders terms but they would generally go to someone who has one of my pups already and that I have a great relationship with. I have one entire maiden bitch out of 3 dogs and plan on 2 litters with her as her Mama is spayed. I do a lot of dog sports so don’t want my girls out of action for too long. 

 

And depending on their circumstances I would breed 1 or 2 litters only and give them the option of spaying at any time thereafter. These agreements are not for the faint of heart.  I have just had one pup (9 months old) fly back to the UK with his owner and I would strongly consider doing a bit of a genetic swap with his contacts and running a bitch on for him. Someone else has an entire male pup of mine (3 years old now) and I would sell her a bitch on breeders terms in an instant. That’s what comes of doing your homework with your puppy buyers. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by The Spotted Devil