Vets and lack of knowledge

[Rascalmyshadow]

Oh and I’m not having a shot at young vets, I actually thought this vet was very nice and I did like him I just think they need more varied education before advising their clients.

 

I lost track of the amount of times I groomed dogs straight after a vet consult and had to send them back into see a vet on pick up because they had missed things like infected ears, rotten teeth, curled dew claws, impacted anal glands etc. all because the check up wasn’t thorough enough, ok for me I have enough experience and I check my own dogs over properly every two weeks when they are bathed and groomed, however the average person in my experience doesn’t always notice when their dog has a problem.

 

Prime example, I had a client with a little Maltese, the first time I groomed it the owner thought it smelled so bad from being dirty and matted, as soon as I got near it I knew there was infection somewhere, poor little thing clipped off the matts on its face to find a hole straight through the bone, it had a tooth abscess so bad the bone above it was crumbling, dog had immediate surgery (didn’t even finish the groom) and ended up losing all but it’s four canines. 

 

[asal]

9 hours ago, Dame Danny's Darling said:

I feel sick reading this.  Have experienced young and inexperienced vets on occasions and despair.  Luckily there were other vets in the practices for me to see and diagnosed problems in no time.   

My vet once made the comment, "their gradation certificate is their permission to now learn at your and your animals expense" 

After I had told him what a newly employed locum had told me when he ignored my request to only vaccinate my chihuahua puppies with half a ml of the vaccine not the full ml. He then gave all four the full dose and told me any that cannot tolerate the recommended dose are better off dead as it culls the weak from the gene pool

I asked him, "what about collies and Murry grey cattle? Many of them are ivamec intolerant, his solution, dose them all n eliminate all the susceptible. As I recall the problem came to light when a herd was dosed and next morning only two were still alive! 

Considering a great Dane puppy weighing twenty times more still only gets one ml, that's idiotic. 

Three were dead before I arrived home, the fourth survived 13 days as her immune system n internal organs shut down, their mum's last and only litter of beautiful bitch puppies 

Can hope fate culled him from the gene pool too. He was fired but little compensation 

Edited July 14, 2018 by asal

[karen15]

Rascal, that's not a vet issue, that's a bone lazy, cruel owner. Casual cruelty really irks me. The owner didn't mean for it to happen so somehow it's ok. I could never be a vet. That sort of owner would be the end of me.

 

There is no excuse for a dog to be matted and dirty between grooms. Laziness pure and simple. If they can brush their own hair, then owners can brush the long haired breeds they chose to purchase.

[Rascalmyshadow]

55 minutes ago, karen15 said:

Rascal, that's not a vet issue, that's a bone lazy, cruel owner. Casual cruelty really irks me. The owner didn't mean for it to happen so somehow it's ok. I could never be a vet. That sort of owner would be the end of me.

 

There is no excuse for a dog to be matted and dirty between grooms. Laziness pure and simple. If they can brush their own hair, then owners can brush the long haired breeds they chose to purchase.

Totally agree but unfortunately that’s all too common, the biggest reason I gave up grooming after 23 years is because I was no longer coping with seeing so much constant neglect, my physical and mental health have suffered a lot from being so exposed to it all for so long, as much as I love dogs I will never work with them again.

 

I still have customers ringing/texting me (after not grooming for the last 18 months) to get info on feeding, skin problems, ear problems, etc etc because they don’t trust their vets to give them straight out knowledgeable answers, that’s telling me there is seriously something wrong with the industry.

 

[The Spotted Devil]

The thing that’s “wrong” is that...

- vets have to be across multiple species

- vets have to be GPs, surgeons, radiologists, neurologists, geneticists, urologists, oncologists, behaviourists, nutritionists....etc etc 

- their patients bite and scratch more than the average

- vets aren’t subsidised by Medicare 

 

And....half the population bitches about what they charge. It’s like dog trainers and breeders. They’re supposed to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. (I do, by the way, but I have a “real” job to subsidise breeding and dog training). 

 

Sheesh. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Spotted Devil

[Rascalmyshadow]

1 hour ago, The Spotted Devil said:

The thing that’s “wrong” is that...

- vets have to be across multiple species

- vets have to be GPs, surgeons, radiologists, neurologists, geneticists, urologists, oncologists, behaviourists, nutritionists....etc etc 

- their patients bite and scratch more than the average

- vets aren’t subsidised by Medicare 

 

And....half the population bitches about what they charge. It’s like dog trainers and breeders. They’re supposed to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. (I do, by the way, but I have a “real” job to subsidise breeding and dog training). 

 

Sheesh. 

True and I have found a really good vet doesn’t always have to be right but will admit they don’t have the experience in a particular area and put you onto someone that does, instead of pretending like they know it all and give out the wrong advice or doing surgeries they aren’t competent in doing.

 

I don’t disagree it would be a very hard job and I don’t envy them.

[tdierikx]

I can be the nightmare or the perfect vet client... depends on the interactivity of the vet. I am the person who is intensely interested in what's happening with the health and wellbeing of my own pets, and the other animals that are in my care (I work on a farm with lots of young animals of all sorts of species). I like to learn about ailments and illnesses and how to treat... or preferably prevent them happening... so I'm going to ask questions, pose theories, and generally do my research into anything and everything. Over the years, I have amassed a rather veritable knowledge base of all things animal health... and young vets can be a bit intimidated by clients like myself... *grin*

 

My boss has put me in charge of all things animal health and welfare related at the farm precisely because I'm good at what I do, much to the consternation of some of our ather staff who are vet science (or worse animal science) students... lets just say that textbooks do not trump actual hands on experience.

 

Case in point, a goat with a runny bum has presented with a tiny amount of fresh red blood in its stool... staff member just finishing her Masters in Animal Science panicks and starts demanding emergency vet care (on a Sunday night). I pose the question "did you notice him straining a little when pooping?", to which the answer is "yes"... to which I reply that when he strained, he's made a tiny tear in his anal passage, and that's where the tiny amount of blood has come from. I give the goat a dose of Scourban to ease the squirts and advise that if there is still blood in his stool in the morning, he will go to the vet. Needless to say, said goat was perfectly fine in the morning. Had the blood been dark or copious, for sure he'd have seen a vet, but as the issue was a very common and minor issue, my actions were correct... which were backed up by our treating vet on his weekly farm visit. The one thing I'll give the staff member full credit for is actually noticing the issue and bringing it to my attention... most of our staff aren't as observant... *sigh*

 

Oh... and diarrhoea in goats is not necessarily an indicator of something serious... as the buggers are always eating stuff they shouldn't, and it's a natural bodily response to get rid of the irritant...

 

T.

[asal]

Ah goats, they can be guaranteed to eat the plants u value n not touch the weeds you would be pleased if they eradicated. Came to the conclusion their aim in life is to so enrage you you strangle them with your bare hands, while they  look at you lovingly think the intention is so you feel guilty for the rest of your life 

As for drench resistant worms, they seem to all carry them so constantly changing drenches to keep them safe from the mongrel worms 

Anglo Nubian are the worst for that, sweetest most affectionate worm magnets on the planet 

Edited July 15, 2018 by asal

[tdierikx]

Picture me walking into a vet clinic with an adult sheep on a lead... the vet nurses went gaga over the tame sheepie... lol! All our animals at the farm are lead trained... not uncommon to have a couple of sheep and a handful of goats all on a lead at once... oh, and a calf too...

 

Once I fronted the clinic with a neonate goat kid, a chicken, and a rabbit... funny how the nurses went loopy for the goat kid... everyone had to have a cuddle... not so much the rabbit or the chook... lol! The vet who looks after our farm animals is a bit partial to the baby goats too... *grin*

 

I love goats best of all animals... but they are tricky to raise... and the buggers are naughty too! Best to remember that goats are browsers, whereas sheep are grazers - goats will eat grass as a last resort generally.

 

As you can see from above, a vet may be called upon to diagnose issues in multiple species (sometimes at the same consult)... no mean feat!

 

T.

[Bundyburger]

 i suggest calling the clinic and passing on the feedback. They are very open to it and always looking to improve.  Maybe he was just having an off day and forgot.

[Rascalmyshadow]

20 minutes ago, Bundyburger said:

 i suggest calling the clinic and passing on the feedback. They are very open to it and always looking to improve.  Maybe he was just having an off day and forgot.

Next time I’m in i’ll mention it, he was really nice and just new so I don’t want to create an issue for the poor guy.

As for the bones advice he’s certainly not the first vet that has told me the same thing, I do think he was a little nervous so I think that could be why he forget to check ears.

I was very polite to him and he did comment on how well maintained Hugo was.

 

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

Just to add apologies to anyone if my posts seem too harsh I just word things to get straight to the point, not actually meaning to be as judgemental as they probably sound.

[westiemum]

On 7/14/2018 at 12:29 PM, The Spotted Devil said:

I think the trick is to teach University students that even peer reviewed research should be approached with a critical eye. Question everything!

Absolutely correct.  When Mark my Mum's cat ended up with a very rare form of feline cancer earlier this year, the vets could find very little solid research to go on.  They eventually found a small, retrospective study but they were very quick to point out that we were on very shaky ground relying on one study with a small sample.  But we all understood it was all we had to go on.  And yes i checked the funding source for the study - and to me that's key.  

 

Sandgrubber:

 

Quote

The evidence based veterinary medicine crew is generally against fresh bones. See, eg http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/yet-another-study-shows-the-real-dangers-of-raw-diets-for-dogs/#comments

And references therein.

It's possible/likely that lack of positive evidence from controlled studies merely shows that big companies won't fund such studies (would be very expensive).

Bolded bit - its not only that proper studies are expensive, its not in big companies commercial interests to fund studies which show the benefits of raw feeding - which IMO is more likely the case. So of course they won't fund them.  Have a read of the "Dogs First' website (and yes on the basis of sound evidence it advocates raw). 

 

So I always always always want to know who funds these studies and that's where I start.  If they are funded by the global pet food companies then I don't bother reading any further.  Absolute waste of time.  We know what the 'result/conclusion' is (commercial food good, raw food bad) before we start reading.  As in human nutrition, 'follow the money' (drug, sugar and processed food companies in particular).  The answer is always there.  

Edited July 16, 2018 by westiemum

[Bundyburger]

21 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

Next time I’m in i’ll mention it, he was really nice and just new so I don’t want to create an issue for the poor guy.

As for the bones advice he’s certainly not the first vet that has told me the same thing, I do think he was a little nervous so I think that could be why he forget to check ears.

I was very polite to him and he did comment on how well maintained Hugo was.

 

 

Definitely. I've heard the no bones before too with one of them (maybe the same one, he was horrified i was still feeding chicken raw after the chicken neck thing) so maybe a training issue as the senior vets don't say no bones, just recommend caution with certain types and i know they have a lot of raw fed clients. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

On 16/07/2018 at 5:34 PM, Bundyburger said:

Definitely. I've heard the no bones before too with one of them (maybe the same one, he was horrified i was still feeding chicken raw after the chicken neck thing) so maybe a training issue as the senior vets don't say no bones, just recommend caution with certain types and i know they have a lot of raw fed clients. 

Do you mind me asking which vets in particular you prefer to see there.

My first two visits were horrible both with the same vet, I specifically avoid her and will drive to Mornington if she’s the only one on, I have however very good faith in Kerrilee (I think that’s right) we have seen her on a number of occasions but the last time I checked she’s only there one day a week.

[WoofnHoof]

It’s interesting I’ve often found younger vets more open to ideas and thoughts of the owner, and can have more current knowledge, although many older vets do keep up with the most recent research too. They are all different as with most people. I have found many older vets are a bit world-weary, and less inclined to be interested in a case or investigate thoroughly. When my boy first presented at the vet when he was sick I the younger vet who first saw him suspected the real problem, she didn’t say it to me just said “oh there is one thing but it’s really rare”, she went out to get the advice of the senior vets in the practice and came back and said they didn’t think it was that so that was that. I would bet any money that she thought it was a shunt, and it would have saved me a lot of money and stress if she had trusted her first instinct. The senior vets just thought he had eaten something that didn’t agree with him, and to be fair that would have been a much more common occurance in most cases, just not this one. 

 

  

[alpha bet]

Like in any profession, there are good and bad .... and the indifferent.... Vets are no different.

Personally it is not a problem for me as I learn as much as I can about my breed and health issues, so that I am equipped and ready to question any of the vets.

However as a professional Trainer and also as a breeder - My biggest issue is that most of the public are guided by the vets and believe the statements given as gospel... however the vet has a tendency to give throw away lines without giving the clients the full breakdown.... also there is minimal time that Vets spend with clients to cover the health aspects with their animals.

Now when I talk with my training and boarding clients or when we have Breed Information Days is that I now have to go thru the various aspects of health to give as much information and references to provide the alternatives to the 'Marketing Hype" that is being feed to the vets and hence being passed to the public.

 

My main beef with the Vets is on the following topics.
1. DESEXING - Vets still seem to insist on puppies need desexing at 5-6 months.... often using scare tactics of - prevents cancers,  it prevents males from marking and reduces aggression issues... Note all of this is actually showing up to be incorrect information yet most vets seem to be completely obsessed with this.....

2. VACCINATION - Seem to be ready to throw around the annual vaccination and no further discussion, very few seem to offer any alternative information.

 

3. DIET REQUIREMENTS - it is almost standard to hear vets reciting what we read on the packaging and in the Pet Magazines... "dry food has all the nutrient value your dog will need"..... "use a good quality dry food (just like the one we have here on the shelf)"....... "don't feed human food it is unsafe for your pet"...... "don't feed raw diets"

 

I have met some great vets... both going back to the 70's and 80's and also some now... I am sure there are many... but as we see Commercial Companies start to take over local vet practices we are going to find less and less good vets as they will just become employees of the Corporate and hence will be hamstrung my the idea of producing profit.

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

10 hours ago, alpha bet said:

Like in any profession, there are good and bad .... and the indifferent.... Vets are no different.

Personally it is not a problem for me as I learn as much as I can about my breed and health issues, so that I am equipped and ready to question any of the vets.

However as a professional Trainer and also as a breeder - My biggest issue is that most of the public are guided by the vets and believe the statements given as gospel... however the vet has a tendency to give throw away lines without giving the clients the full breakdown.... also there is minimal time that Vets spend with clients to cover the health aspects with their animals.

Now when I talk with my training and boarding clients or when we have Breed Information Days is that I now have to go thru the various aspects of health to give as much information and references to provide the alternatives to the 'Marketing Hype" that is being feed to the vets and hence being passed to the public.

 

My main beef with the Vets is on the following topics.
1. DESEXING - Vets still seem to insist on puppies need desexing at 5-6 months.... often using scare tactics of - prevents cancers,  it prevents males from marking and reduces aggression issues... Note all of this is actually showing up to be incorrect information yet most vets seem to be completely obsessed with this.....

2. VACCINATION - Seem to be ready to throw around the annual vaccination and no further discussion, very few seem to offer any alternative information.

 

3. DIET REQUIREMENTS - it is almost standard to hear vets reciting what we read on the packaging and in the Pet Magazines... "dry food has all the nutrient value your dog will need"..... "use a good quality dry food (just like the one we have here on the shelf)"....... "don't feed human food it is unsafe for your pet"...... "don't feed raw diets"

 

I have met some great vets... both going back to the 70's and 80's and also some now... I am sure there are many... but as we see Commercial Companies start to take over local vet practices we are going to find less and less good vets as they will just become employees of the Corporate and hence will be hamstrung my the idea of producing profit.

 

All those things are where I have clashed with vets, especially when working in a clinic, I struggle to understand how someone can spend so many years and money educating themselves and in the end don’t do any of their own research and instead believe only txt books and drug companies.

[ish]

This topic is one that resonates with me after experiences in recent months with 2 of my elderly GSDs, one 12.5 and one 14.5 years old. Both on different occasions with different vets and different health concerns were inaccurately diagnosed mainly because the vets couldn’t get past the idea that their issues with due to arthritis/bad hips. Yes, they both have arthritis to some degree but both also were hip scored in their youth and have good mobility for elderly dogs. The older dog actually ended up hospitalised for 4 days with a huge temperature/infection when I took her to my own vet for a second opinion later in the day after the local vet said she had arthritis and suggested I have her put to sleep (and failed to take her temperature) Thankfukly she’s home and well again now

 

Its so hard to find a vet that you can trust 

[Loving my Oldies]

@ish       

 

I have been going to the same vet practice for over 10 years.  Two of the vets are excellent, the others are very very good, except for one to whom I wouldn’t take a pet rock.  It is a total mystery to me (and others I’ve spoken to over the years) how she continues to be employed there.