Vets and lack of knowledge

[Rascalmyshadow]

Took Hugo to the local vets yesterday for an all over check up just to make sure he is all good before he meets his potential new owner.

Was a youngish new vet, quite nice, mostly checked him over although didn’t look in his ears at all (not too good being a poodle) then asked me the oddest question “why doesn’t he have any whiskers’ I was a little dumbfounded since his face is obviously shaved, had to explain this to him, also he doesn’t believe dogs should have bones and are better off with greenies and denta sticks, guess he hasn’t done his research into the blockages greenies have caused.

 

Oh how I wish vets would have more hands on and experience before they are put in position to treat people’s pets.

 

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Uuuurrrrrgggghhh! 

 

Unfortunately too many courses are funded by 'pet food companies'. It's so frustrating.

Someone gifted me a subscription to a dog magazine, it goes on and on about the dangers of feeding bones every issue 

 

You don't know what you don't know. I often have to remind myself that. Once upon a time, I was uninformed too.

[Loving my Oldies]

26 minutes ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

Took Hugo to the local vets yesterday for an all over check up just to make sure he is all good before he meets his potential new owner.

Was a youngish new vet, quite nice, mostly checked him over although didn’t look in his ears at all (not too good being a poodle) then asked me the oddest question “why doesn’t he have any whiskers’ I was a little dumbfounded since his face is obviously shaved, had to explain this to him, also he doesn’t believe dogs should have bones and are better off with greenies and denta sticks, guess he hasn’t done his research into the blockages greenies have caused.

 

Oh how I wish vets would have more hands on and experience before they are put in position to treat people’s pets.

 

I feel sick reading this.  Have experienced young and inexperienced vets on occasions and despair.  Luckily there were other vets in the practices for me to see and diagnosed problems in no time.   

[The Spotted Devil]

It’s also up to us to respectfully educate our vets. We can’t expect them to be up to date with everything. And you need to remember that their Uni course involves multiple species and specialties when you compare with a GP. What practice doctor has to perform a hysterectomy on a female patient!!!! And yet for a vet it’s standard. Plus they see a fair bit of neglect and everyone whinges about the (non-subsidised by Medicare) bills. 

 

I see my relationship with my treating vets as a two way street. We openly discuss early desexing (strict no from me with the understanding that it works for some situations), raw weaned puppies (shock horror  ), behaviour (well that’s MY thing and they know it), pedigree dogs, breeding, health testing, 3 yearly vaccination, impact of physical health on performance dogs, fitness training, core strengthening etc etc. In turn they have knowledge and skills where I don’t.

Edited July 14, 2018 by The Spotted Devil

[Loving my Oldies]

I appreciate all you say @The Spotted Devil, but sadly we have also to appreciate that most people know zilch and don’t understand that they should know more for the sake of the health and happiness of their dogs.  Despite having a brother as a vet who had his own veterinary hospital when I first became a dog owner, I have to count myself in the category of knowing very little.  I did read up a lot on the breed I was going to get, but I look back in horror at my ignorance.  I guess the difference with me is that I knew I was ignorant and did my best to address that.  It also helped (from the point of view of my education and recognition of how easily things can go wrong) that my first dogs drew the short straws when it came to health issues  .  And it also helped with my education that I became a volunteer walker at a pound and then involved in rescue.  

 

But, yes, we have to help educate whenever and wherever we see the need.     

 

 

[Kazm]

I too have encountered a few vets that have left me shaking my head. I was so lucky, if you call a Saturday after hours emergency lucky, 15 years ago when the only vet I could get to became the one I still use. A few locums in there that I haven’t been happy with occasionally but they know me and I know them and we discuss things. Although as recently as Zena’s diagnosis I was disappointed with them. A youngish female vet who now works with them really wasn’t up to scratch. She should have picked up on Zena rather than me taking her elsewhere. 

 

And greenies and denta stix over fresh bones. Wow! At least we all know where fresh bones come from and what’s in them. 

[karen15]

I got a young newbie horse vet last year for a quite serious problem. My normal vet wasn't available and as it was urgent I had to take who was available. I was very pleased with the young vet. Very thorough, understanding and sent me a follow up afterwards on treatment - remembering everything afterwards can be difficult when you're upset, so the follow up was great. She impressed me so much she'll be my second preference.

 

I have had older vets at the practice for urgent small pet consults and wouldn't use them again. It takes a bit to find a vet you work well with and trust.

[The Spotted Devil]

Same as a good GP and specialist. I’ve had my fair share of good and bad and by golly I work hard to hang on to the good!!!

[sandgrubber]

The evidence based veterinary medicine crew is generally against fresh bones. See, eg http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/yet-another-study-shows-the-real-dangers-of-raw-diets-for-dogs/#comments

And references therein.

It's possible/likely that lack of positive evidence from controlled studies merely shows that big companies won't fund such studies (would be very expensive).

But I don't think one should be too hard on vets who believe what they read in the peer reviewed literature...more than they believe anecdotal evidence.  No question that a lot of dogs love bones...but that proves nothing and may bias owners' opinions.

As for not knowing that poodle whiskers get shaved...BFD.  I hope they have more important things to teach in vet school than breed cosmetics.

[The Spotted Devil]

I think the trick is to teach University students that even peer reviewed research should be approached with a critical eye. Question everything!

[Rascalmyshadow]

4 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

The evidence based veterinary medicine crew is generally against fresh bones. See, eg http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/yet-another-study-shows-the-real-dangers-of-raw-diets-for-dogs/#comments

And references therein.

It's possible/likely that lack of positive evidence from controlled studies merely shows that big companies won't fund such studies (would be very expensive).

But I don't think one should be too hard on vets who believe what they read in the peer reviewed literature...more than they believe anecdotal evidence.  No question that a lot of dogs love bones...but that proves nothing and may bias owners' opinions.

As for not knowing that poodle whiskers get shaved...BFD.  I hope they have more important things to teach in vet school than breed cosmetics.

Not sure what BFD means but I would hope most vets should have some idea how most breeds naturally look, I knew that when I was a teenager.

IMO if you like your job you go above and beyond to educate yourself as much as possible especially when dealing with something living, learning just from a txt book is not good enough.

 

The biggest downfall to moving so far away has been losing my trusted vet,  so far I have found one very good vet in town but she only works one day a week.

[PossumCorner]

1 hour ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

…. asked me the oddest question “why doesn’t he have any whiskers’  ….

 

I'd have read that, if I'd overheard it, as a gentle sideswipe at people who needlessly shave dog's whiskers.  Many believe it a barbarism, that dogs absolutely need their whiskers, for identification of touched objects, for the comfort of that extra bit of sensory ability.  There are breeds of horses that have their whiskers shaved for cosmetic show-ring purposes, and it is an extremely cruel thing to do to a horse - they absolutely rely on whiskers which 'wire through' direct to the brain and are very important in contact and identification needs.

[Rascalmyshadow]

25 minutes ago, PossumCorner said:

I'd have read that, if I'd overheard it, as a gentle sideswipe at people who needlessly shave dog's whiskers.  Many believe it a barbarism, that dogs absolutely need their whiskers, for identification of touched objects, for the comfort of that extra bit of sensory ability.  There are breeds of horses that have their whiskers shaved for cosmetic show-ring purposes, and it is an extremely cruel thing to do to a horse - they absolutely rely on whiskers which 'wire through' direct to the brain and are very important in contact and identification needs.

He asked looking very confused, it’s a little hard to shave a dogs face all over without taking off the whiskers, I don’t believe their is anything cruel about it. 

[The Spotted Devil]

I don’t agree that vets should know what most breeds look like. Not every vet is as dog obsessed as the rest of us. And they get next to NO education on that at Uni. I know what my breeds are like, their quirks and their likely health risks. And it’s my job to respectfully educate my vets. AND my puppy buyers so they can educate THEIR vets. If I hear one more time how ESS are prone to infected ears I’ll scream. But I don’t. I explain the difference between working and show lines and the nature of the light ear leather and less coat means there is no need for prophylactic ear cleaning or plucking. 

[twodoggies2001]

Several years ago, when Benson, a mini schnauzer had just gotten over a bout of pancreatitis and my vet suggested Hills diet even though she knew I raw fed.  I was walking past a vet surgery with him and entered on the pretence I wanted to weigh him with the vet nurse's blessing and then got into a conversation regarding the commercial foods for pancreatic dogs.  I mentioned that I was strongly resisting commercial as against fresh raw feeding.  Out pops the vet from the back room and questions me, (with hands on hips).  Do you want your dog to die?  He was told in no uncertain manner what a stupid question he just asked.  I contacted a holistic vet having resigned myself to the fact that if it had to be commercial food, then so be it.  This new vet, bless her, modified his existing raw diet and Benson went on to live another 6 years.  Just goes to show, that even some vets don't know the real answers and perhaps don't want to as there is money to be made.  Coincidentally I with the blessing of my vet, I don't vaccinate beyond puppy shots, but do have them titred every 2 years.  Jasper who has now gone to the bridge still had immunity up until he passed.

[Animal House]

Did you ask the vet to look into his ears, I would have, just as a reminder if he didn't do it.

I absolutely agree with the horses whiskers @PossumCorner, its cruelty.

 

I had to go to the vets yesterday with my old girl, a general check up and review of her arthritis and to try new meds. My vet said he had a student who would check her over first, give him the notes and then my vet would come in to do a final assessment.

 

The vet student was fantastic, in his 5th year and did the most comprehensive vet check I've ever seen, explaining everything he was doing, asking questions about my old girls history (slow growing cancer, lump removed 2 years ago).  He even gave her hips a massage. We were having a chat and I asked him had he been bitten yet, he said no...and told me if you can read the dogs body language you get to know the signs well before you could cop a bite. He was really gentle and patient, and spent probably 15 mins on her, he's going to make a great vet. 

[sandgrubber]

1 hour ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

Not sure what BFD means but I would hope most vets should have some idea how most breeds naturally look, I knew that when I was a teenager.

IMO if you like your job you go above and beyond to educate yourself as much as possible especially when dealing with something living, learning just from a txt book is not good enough.

 

The biggest downfall to moving so far away has been losing my trusted vet,  so far I have found one very good vet in town but she only works one day a week.

BFD = Big F'ing Deal.  Isn't as rude as it sounds when you spell it out.  

You are sure to be disappointed if you expect vets to know anything about breed specific grooming.  It's like expecting your GP to know about hairstyles.

[Rascalmyshadow]

35 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

BFD = Big F'ing Deal.  Isn't as rude as it sounds when you spell it out.  

You are sure to be disappointed if you expect vets to know anything about breed specific grooming.  It's like expecting your GP to know about hairstyles.

Actually you are very rude from other posts it seems your not a very nice person, I don’t expect a vet to know breed specific clips but I’ve never met a vet yet that had no idea a poodle naturally had a hairy face, they aren’t exactly a rare breed.

[Rascalmyshadow]

39 minutes ago, Animal House said:

Did you ask the vet to look into his ears, I would have, just as a reminder if he didn't do it.

I absolutely agree with the horses whiskers @PossumCorner, its cruelty.

 

I had to go to the vets yesterday with my old girl, a general check up and review of her arthritis and to try new meds. My vet said he had a student who would check her over first, give him the notes and then my vet would come in to do a final assessment.

 

The vet student was fantastic, in his 5th year and did the most comprehensive vet check I've ever seen, explaining everything he was doing, asking questions about my old girls history (slow growing cancer, lump removed 2 years ago).  He even gave her hips a massage. We were having a chat and I asked him had he been bitten yet, he said no...and told me if you can read the dogs body language you get to know the signs well before you could cop a bite. He was really gentle and patient, and spent probably 15 mins on her, he's going to make a great vet. 

I didn’t ask him to check his ears because I know they are ok, I do expect when I’m paying $80+ for a consult that the vet checks all the basics without being asked.

 

[Animal House]

Whoa, $80...yeah, they should have checked the ears too for that.