Arthritis in small breed

[redangel]

My sweet poodle Luci is struggling at the moment.
In the last fortnight has gone from quite active to downright depressed and unable to rise well in the mornings, general reluctance to get up and proppy gait that is very slow. She is 10yrs old, carrying a little more weight than her breed standard...but has not had any falls or the like to indicate sudden issues.  Her depression is getting to me as she used to be the matriarch female dog of the house but now is withdrawn at times. At worst she fell onto her side during a morning pee and just laid there unwilling to try and get up. I have had many dogs till their 18th year but never seen this in a 10yr old dog.
The vet has given me umpteenth pamphlets and a short course of painkillers which has eased her discomfort I believe...but I realise this is a short term fix. I have not been offered additional treatment and will ask about Cartrophen Injections. Can anyone give me advise on dietary changes, treatments to pursue and likely expectations. Appreciated. 

[persephone]

56 minutes ago, redangel said:

Her depression is getting to me as she used to be the matriarch female dog of the house but now is withdrawn at times. At worst she fell onto her side during a morning pee and just laid there unwilling to try and get up

Ohhh, redangel - that sounds distressing for you all . 
What tests did the vet do to diagnose arthritis ? Do you think it may help if fresh eyes (2nd opinion) have a look ? 
Obviously some weight loss will help ... but were she mine ..I would be videoing snippets of behaviour candidly ..esp the depressive signs , the uncomfortable positions, and any episodes like you described  Poor girl . 

I'll leave it to others to discuss meds etc .. I've had hardly any experience with arthritic dogs .

I 'll send this shout to @Jumabaar who may have some wise words  ...   

Edited July 5, 2018 by persephone

[Loving my Oldies]

That is so distressing.  I agree with Persephone ..... another opinion.  And yes, vets love it when you can bring in videos to show behaviour that is not always in evidence in the consulting room.   

 

I hope you find some answers and something to help Luci.  It IS very distressing when we can’t help our loved ones.    

[Dogsfevr]

I would find a good Bowen massage person 

[redangel]

Thank you for your ideas.  I will get some of her on video of her as she is at home. I have  already started charting/weighing her food intake and Dogsfevr will look into the massage aspect as that is a therapy I am not familiar with. I have used only light heated massage in the morning when she first rises to her feet...only because I am scared it may not always what she wants.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by redangel

[persephone]

11 hours ago, redangel said:

In the last fortnight has gone from quite active to downright depressed and unable to rise well in the mornings, general reluctance to get up and proppy gait that is very slow.

That  really needs a correct diagnosis ...it seems a very quick progression , if arthritis - and I've been thinking again about that falling over when toileting - that is odd, and worrying .
Hopefully you can find a vet who will get to the bottom of it all for you  so correct treatment can be started , and Luci  begins to live again

[Rebanne]

I would be getting a 2nd opinion. She may well have arthritis but I've never had a dog fall over from it. Were bloods done?

[Dogsfevr]

Yes to a second opinion but this is why I love my Bowen treatments on my dogs .

There is a muscle at the base of the tail that can cause intense pain to even weakness  or an inability to walk if pulled .

Pinched nerves in the shoulders can result in in spasms that are just as debilitating in dogs as humans .

 

 

Or it could be something else like a mini stroke 

[karen15]

in my experience with arthritis - 6 years with my staffy - it didn't cause him to fall over, so that sounds odd.  Sam had a fused spine, arthritis in his elbows and hips as well as having that neurological disorder where they lose control of their back legs.  His pain was managed throughout this time.  Initially, not much was required but as it progressed, the level of pain management increased.  Arthritis is a progressive disease, so that is to be expected.  He was more than comfortable up to the time he died (from unrelated subcutaneous mast cell tumour).  His activity levels slowly decreased inline with his comfort.  The last couple of years a walk was a stroll around the carpark where I live as he couldn't do more than that.

 

Basically, with arthritis, there are levels of management.  Initially, just minor occasional medication is needed.  We started monthly cartrophen injections about 2 years in.  As the disease progresses, medication can increase up to daily and then another pain killer can be added.  Sam was on metacam for ages and in the end had tramadol as well.  Yes metacam can cause kidney issues if used for a long period, but I preferred him to have a comfortable life to a long life and in the end it was cancer that killed him, not the medication he had been taking to relieve pain.

 

ETA as part of his pain management in the later years, he had regular physio treatments.  We'd had a treatment booked for the day before he was to be PTS and as he loved the physio so much, I called and let them know I'd be a bit upset, but Sam would love Tony to come.  Tony and I were both in tears by the end and the wonderful man didn't charge me for his last visit as it was his goodbye to Sam.

Edited July 6, 2018 by karen15

[_PL_]

There could be two things going on. It won't hurt to get a second opinion. 

[redangel]

Powerlegs that was  my concern. I thought such a sudden change is not arthritis like because it was a drastic change. During the consult she was palpated, hip and cruciate/patella checked..her back examined for "sore" points....all ok.  All nerve reactions in the hindlegs were as normal.
I am one to always fear the worse and so my next request as Rebanne put forward is likely a blood test.
I have had a good relationship with this vet for 23+ years and well he has been Luci's only vet outside specialist visits.  She is nearing the end of the weaned painkillers and tonight she actually bounced in excitement and had a play bow. She is still not adopting a free gait (and retired to her heat bed soon after) but it was a brighter moment than I've seen in a while.

As  her booked reevaluation is a couple of days away I am documenting her days on video...especially her gait and balance.
 
 

[redangel]

Update on Luci a month on. I put her on restricted exercise with no opportunity to jump. I then used massage and heat in the mornings (when she was at her weakest) and encouraged her to get up and walk for short but regular intervals. Basically I treated her as if she had an injury and as she weaned off the second script of antiflams she gradually improved. I separated her from the other dogs so to avoid her getting bumped and gave her a deep cushioned bed to rest upon. I re-presented her to the vet and as she improved (video showed this) he acknowledged she may have had an injury. I must say I was not impressed at the candor of the treating vet.
She was attended by another vet last week (1 kg lighter as I thought a diet would help her mobility) and had a dental procedure. Id say right now she is back to the 85% mark.

[Rascalmyshadow]

It’s really good news your girl is improving, our previous old poodle girl fell off the bed one night (she was almost blind) and injured her neck, all the vets would do would give her pain relief, we took her to the Chiro which had much better results.

 

I would also recommend if possible take her to see Michelle Monk at Dogs in motion, even if your girl is improving she will be able to assess her properly (better than the standard vet) and give you an ongoing management plan.

[persephone]

That's a great update  So glad she's feeling a lot more comfortable