Interesting article on possible link between diet and heart disease

[sandgrubber]

On 7/15/2018 at 2:33 PM, Maddy said:

If lamb is common in US dog food, why is the author of the article calling it an exotic ingredient, and suggesting there is insufficient feed research on it (as an "exotic" ingredient)?

And yes- if you're going to word things in such a way as to lead the reader to believe they are fact, then the author should have evidence to back up those claims, and be willing to cite it. 

It's no different than the crazies on the other end of the stick, who claim anything processed will cause cancer. I'd want evidence for any claim presented as fact

1. I suspect the author, like many authors, didn't think carefully before publishing.

2. If you are lead to believe by a phrase containing the word "might", you are going to end up believing a lot of stuff for which there is no solid evidence.

[PANDI-GIRL]

@karen15  and  @Serket  Have you found any more information about diet & heart disease in dogs,  have you seen the posts on  Dog Food Advisor,  about this topic.                                                                                               I'm not buying any more dry kibble, for now,  I'm using   Frontier Pets, with added  tin Salmon  & a little extra veggies.                                                                                                                                           Which  foods have you decided on for your dogs and why did you choose that food

[sandgrubber]

14 hours ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

@karen15  and  @Serket  Have you found any more information about diet & heart disease in dogs,  have you seen the posts on  Dog Food Advisor,  about this topic.                                                                                               I'm not buying any more dry kibble, for now,  I'm using   Frontier Pets, with added  tin Salmon  & a little extra veggies.                                                                                                                                           Which  foods have you decided on for your dogs and why did you choose that food

You didn't ask for my opinion, but you might want to look at:

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/08/grain-free-diets-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by sandgrubber

[PANDI-GIRL]

                      @sandgrubber I would love your opinion on nutrition for dogs & dog care in general , anything you can tell me is appreciated, love that link thanks   

 

 

, Pandi is 2 years old  & my first dog, so I do need good advice   

[Papillon Kisses]

Update: http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/11/dcm-update/

[Christine_72]

I'm thinking of alternating between bags of grain free and grain inclusive kibble. If i could find a high protein/meat kibble that contains oats as it's only grain, then i would for sure feed that, but it seems there is no such thing..

 

Nugget only gets 1/2 a cup of dry food a day, the rest is fresh meat and rmb's. I've never fed any of my dogs exclusively on nothing but kibble.

 

One of the grain foods I'm considering is earthborn holistic puppy vantage, but i dont like the protein of 28%, the fat is good at 20% though. The extra meat i add to his diet will bump up the protein anyway, so not such a huge deal.

[PANDI-GIRL]

When I was checking different dog foods  it seems foods with grain in are lower protein,  & grain free are higher protein,  SO is the only reason grain free has more protein  because the extra protein is from peas & Lentils

[Christine_72]

2 hours ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

When I was checking different dog foods  it seems foods with grain in are lower protein,  & grain free are higher protein,  SO is the only reason grain free has more protein  because the extra protein is from peas & Lentils

Good point @PANDI-GIRL . I would much prefer the protein my dog gets comes from meat than plant sources!

Edited December 3, 2018 by Christine_72

[Maddy]

On 30/07/2018 at 2:43 PM, westiemum said:

Yeah I'm one of those 'crazies' - and I can cite the science but I'm not going to take a half day of time to do it. Its easily accessible if you look - start here for a summary of the science and here . 

 

I've looked incredibly closely and carefully at the science and the political and social determinants of human nutrition, current government dietary guidelines (and yes the food pyramid which we've all taken as gospel and is completely unsupported by the science) and its fads like all the variations on high carb/low fat diets over the last 40 -50 years. And I've concluded that these fads were driven by industry and vested interest and not by sound science.  And for me, the standard government and medical advice I'd been given over a lifetime and told to follow was sending me to an early grave.   

 

And I've started to wonder if despite the physiological differences it isn't the same or similar for our dogs?  Their diets have changed enormously since processed pet foods were introduced (who benefits?) - and so have their rates of doggy lifestyle diseases - heart disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer etc etc.  Is that connected or is it a coincidence?

 

I don't know the answer but I'm beginning to suspect its an incredibly important question to answer in a scientifically sound way despite what will be enormous opposition from vested interests.  And yet if those vested interests have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to worry about the science proving their foods are healthy and safe, once and for all. 

Wut? Low carbs diets for humans have nothing to do with the issue of processed foods for dogs. And none of what is claimed on either of those sites makes any mention of cancer. As an aside, plenty of naturally occurring foods are full of carbs.

I have a vegan friend who eats only unprocessed foods and one day, after she'd posted her usual breakfast photos, I sat down and worked out how much sugar was in her food. It equated to roughly a 1.25L bottle of Coke. Just for breakfast. No grains, nothing processed, just naturally stuffed full of fructose. 

My dogs eat raw because there is good reason to believe that raw meat is an appropriate diet for a carnivorous animal. But if someone else has trouble feeding raw and needs to feed some sort of processed food (barf patties don't come from the barf pattie tree) or kibble, I'm not going to make judgements about their ability to care for their pet. Or their ability to research. 

 

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that a link to one or two studies per topic is not sufficient evidence for your argument. I'm not arguing for Big Sugar, I'm arguing for objectiveness in research and in how the science is presented to the general public. Cherry-picking a few studies that support your claims, is not good science.

Allllso.. at least one of those sites you linked has a product to sell. So yeah, vested interests, hey.

[westiemum]

As usual you didn't read my post. I pointed out that Im not going to spend hours linking to all the studies but linked a couple.   True low carb diets are not full of fructose and in fact contain very little fruit - and citing one friends breakfast is not good science either. And yes low carb diets have a lot to do with avoiding highly processed foods.    So no Im not guilty of cherry picking.  Nor is Tim Noakes, Christine Cronau or a host of others. But Ancel Keyes is.  But Im not going to argue with you further -  you're welcome to believe what you believe and I don't have time and nor does my health or that of my dogs. 

 

[sandgrubber]

Like humans, dogs are showing more cancer, heart problems, diabetes, etc because 

1. They are living longer

2. Many of them are too fat

Diets may cause problems here and there, and no question, there are some shady practices among producers/marketers of dog foods. But zoo wolves, fed on mainstream, grain containing dry food brands live longer than their wild relatives. 

It's unfortunate that there are few objective studies of raw vs processed foods as affecting dog health.  But there's no denying that a lot of dogs live long healthy lives on relatively cheap dry foods. 

[Maddy]

13 hours ago, westiemum said:

As usual you didn't read my post. I pointed out that Im not going to spend hours linking to all the studies but linked a couple.   True low carb diets are not full of fructose and in fact contain very little fruit - and citing one friends breakfast is not good science either. And yes low carb diets have a lot to do with avoiding highly processed foods.    So no Im not guilty of cherry picking.  Nor is Tim Noakes, Christine Cronau or a host of others. But Ancel Keyes is.  But Im not going to argue with you further -  you're welcome to believe what you believe and I don't have time and nor does my health or that of my dogs. 

 

You're the one who felt the need to pick a fight because you disagreed with me? I find it a little rude that you picked the argument and now you're whining that I'm wasting your time. 

 

[Sagittarian]

On 03/12/2018 at 12:00 PM, PANDI-GIRL said:

When I was checking different dog foods  it seems foods with grain in are lower protein,  & grain free are higher protein,  SO is the only reason grain free has more protein  because the extra protein is from peas & Lentils

Hi there,

 

There are many grain based dry foods that are high protein, with plenty of 'energy/working' varieties across a number of brands. These include XP2030, and formulas by Advance, Euk, Royal Canin. I'm using 30% protein as being at the bottom of high for the purpose of this comment. :-)

 

And, there are quite a number of grain free foods sitting in the 20s, rather than 30s. 

 

It isn't about how much grain/peas/lentils etc, but about the recipe of the individual food. With our useless packaging laws, it is a pain to get accurate information on where the protein comes from (meat v other source) as well as the actual meat content. A few companies are more transparent, whilst others have to be directly contacted for better quality information.

 

What I do know is that over more than fifteen years, the anecdotal feedback from our customers is outstandingly in the favour of grain free products to improve a range of issues, if dry food is all that is being fed. Once we get them introducing raw or moving across completely, then of course this changes again.

 

It is interesting the the series of articles by this vet comment that meat sources considered in the US as 'exotic' include lamb and kangaroo. Both are widely fed here and not at considered unusual.

 

Studies backed by pet food companies concern me, particularly when they are companies based on what they proclaim to be science, regardless of the ingredients list. :-)