Raw feeding-bones?

[Rascalmyshadow]

For those that feed 100% raw how do you feed a complete balanced diet if a dog won’t chew/eat bones.

I am thinking about changing the boys from a tin/dry food diet to raw but Rascal won’t chew bones at all and Hugo very minimal.

 

The last dogs we fed raw would happily eat almost anything so it wasn’t an issue.

[persephone]

vet check for teeth/gums 

feed the day's meat meal 'on the bone' ...NO other food for that day ? Soft bone like chicken wings or chicken back etc ....perhaps hammer flat ?
Mince containing minced bone . 
First meal of the day ,when dogs are hungry ..make it a non weight bearing meat-on-bone meal ....slightly sear the outside meat in very hot frypan  to get the smell happening!! if they chew ALL meat off the bone - that's a great start  

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Aside from raw bones, are you feeding a premade or home made mix for the remainder of their meals? 

(I'm sure you know, but bones are not just about cleaning teeth, they contain huge amounts of nutrients,  specially calcium. So.. you might need to supplement with cleaned, dried, ground up egg shells if the bones aren't being eaten)

 

Our newest member of the crew, Teddy the Shih Tzu, was quite perplexed at the idea of bones.

 

Initially, I got chicken wings & duck wings, cut them into very small pieces, and banged them a bit with a tenderizing hammer. Slowly bashing them less, and cutting less. Now he will eat half a Turkey neck given the chance!

 

I also have a big commercial mincer (crazy food lady perhaps!) so I also minced chicken, quail, turkey, duck and used it in kong type food toys.

 

All 'bird' proteins are off the menu here, but little cute boy is quite happy chewing daily lamb or beef bones. 

You can get beef ribs and bash them with a hammer too.

[Rascalmyshadow]

1 hour ago, persephone said:

vet check for teeth/gums 

feed the day's meat meal 'on the bone' ...NO other food for that day ? Soft bone like chicken wings or chicken back etc ....perhaps hammer flat ?
Mince containing minced bone . 
First meal of the day ,when dogs are hungry ..make it a non weight bearing meat-on-bone meal ....slightly sear the outside meat in very hot frypan  to get the smell happening!! if they chew ALL meat off the bone - that's a great start  

Both their teeth and gums are good, Rascal is 9 and has never liked bones, I’ve tried bashing necks and wings with a hammer and he still won’t eat them, I’ve tried ribs and other meaty bones and he won’t eat those either.

He is not overly fussed by food and would rather go without than eat what he doesn’t like.

 

I’ll try the siggestion of searing the outside, maybe a chicken wing and see if that makes a difference.

[Rascalmyshadow]

1 hour ago, animallover99 said:

Aside from raw bones, are you feeding a premade or home made mix for the remainder of their meals? 

(I'm sure you know, but bones are not just about cleaning teeth, they contain huge amounts of nutrients,  specially calcium. So.. you might need to supplement with cleaned, dried, ground up egg shells if the bones aren't being eaten)

 

Our newest member of the crew, Teddy the Shih Tzu, was quite perplexed at the idea of bones.

 

Initially, I got chicken wings & duck wings, cut them into very small pieces, and banged them a bit with a tenderizing hammer. Slowly bashing them less, and cutting less. Now he will eat half a Turkey neck given the chance!

 

I also have a big commercial mincer (crazy food lady perhaps!) so I also minced chicken, quail, turkey, duck and used it in kong type food toys.

 

All 'bird' proteins are off the menu here, but little cute boy is quite happy chewing daily lamb or beef bones. 

You can get beef ribs and bash them with a hammer too.

I was going to make a mix up myself but I’m going to go into town tomorrow and price the BARF patties, at least then I know they contain everything the dogs need.

 

We have tried bashing necks, wings with a hammer and Rascal still won’t eat them and Hugo chews a little bit then swallows so it makes him vomit it back up.

 

If I had a mincer it would be so much easier.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

If you were only mincing chicken necks or similar, a cheap kmart mincer would be more than adequate. Or a second hand moulinex or similar. The advantage you'd have there is that even if you did half/half mix of premade barf plus your own additions, you can control it a little more. Premade barf works out around $8/kg, and then if calculate 2% of your dogs' body weight to determine daily raw food weight (approximate). At least you get a rough idea of cost.

 

Something else you might not know.. a raw fed dogs' gut ph is around 2, as acidic as vinegar. But the stomach ph of a dog fed commercial food is much more alkaline,  so when initially starting on raw, they can vomit up bone,  because the stomach ph is still adjusting and cannot yet process big chunks of bone. 

(Theres a link somewhere on dol with a webinar by Dr Syme, I actually didn't know until I watched the webinar.)

 

I highly highly recommend reading "nutrigenomics" by Dr  Jean Dodds. Such an amazing book, and really gave me a new perspective on raw feeding, and feeding for optimum health.

 

And... incase you're not sick of hearing my voice Haha. It's not know on dol, but I have little side project of raw treat making, it's mostly just a way for me to 'give back' to pounds & rescues. But, since I had my dogs tested for food intolerences, most of the proteins I had been using are now off limits. I have a few bags left of my 'old recipes' which I would be happy to post you (complimentary), if you would like? They have ground Turkey necks in them.

[Rascalmyshadow]

24 minutes ago, animallover99 said:

If you were only mincing chicken necks or similar, a cheap kmart mincer would be more than adequate. Or a second hand moulinex or similar. The advantage you'd have there is that even if you did half/half mix of premade barf plus your own additions, you can control it a little more. Premade barf works out around $8/kg, and then if calculate 2% of your dogs' body weight to determine daily raw food weight (approximate). At least you get a rough idea of cost.

 

Something else you might not know.. a raw fed dogs' gut ph is around 2, as acidic as vinegar. But the stomach ph of a dog fed commercial food is much more alkaline,  so when initially starting on raw, they can vomit up bone,  because the stomach ph is still adjusting and cannot yet process big chunks of bone. 

(Theres a link somewhere on dol with a webinar by Dr Syme, I actually didn't know until I watched the webinar.)

 

I highly highly recommend reading "nutrigenomics" by Dr  Jean Dodds. Such an amazing book, and really gave me a new perspective on raw feeding, and feeding for optimum health.

 

And... incase you're not sick of hearing my voice Haha. It's not know on dol, but I have little side project of raw treat making, it's mostly just a way for me to 'give back' to pounds & rescues. But, since I had my dogs tested for food intolerences, most of the proteins I had been using are now off limits. I have a few bags left of my 'old recipes' which I would be happy to post you (complimentary), if you would like? They have ground Turkey necks in them.

Thank you I’ll see if I can get to Kmart over the weekend and I’ll have a look in the book store for the Jean Dodds book at the same time.

 

The dogs are both small (6kg and 4kg) so I’m hoping it won’t work out too expensive even if I have to use the BARF patties.

 

I would be happy to pay you something for your treats even if it’s just to cover postage, how do they get stored?

 

Oh and how does the webinar work, does it just play through you tube or similar, do you have to pay or sign up to anything.

 

 

 

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

You could just feed minced chicken frames (instead of whole ones, same difference.) 

We can by chicken mince w/ bone in for like $1/kg in a bulk bag from a local guy, perhaps you could find similar?

Chat to people in your area & you might be surprised; I thought there weren’t any raw suppliers around here but turns out there’s a Boerboel breeder around the block who sells raw!  

 

Otherwise the premixed stuff like Big Dog patties are all balanced with bone in. They’re really good, but the cost adds up if that’s all you’re feeding (unless dog is tiny.) 

 

 

edit: oh in your case BARF could be reasonably affordable for most of their diet. Probably barely need 1 patty a day per dog! And you can of course supplement with any other meaty bits as well.  

 

Edit: on the Big Dog website it says your dogs would barely need 1 patty a day between them so you’re in luck! 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Scrappi&Monty

[Guest crazydoglady99]

It's just a free video, I just watched it on my phone, right here on dol. I'll see if I can find it for you!

 

I got the book on bookdepository (because I am lazy and hate going to the shops).

 

They are dried treats lovely, but dried at 30degrees so as to remain raw. Send me your postal address :-)

 

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Here it is!

 

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

46 minutes ago, animallover99 said:

Here it is!

 

 

Awesome thanks!

Have PM’ed you

[Rascalmyshadow]

55 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

You could just feed minced chicken frames (instead of whole ones, same difference.) 

We can by chicken mince w/ bone in for like $1/kg in a bulk bag from a local guy, perhaps you could find similar?

Chat to people in your area & you might be surprised; I thought there weren’t any raw suppliers around here but turns out there’s a Boerboel breeder around the block who sells raw!  

 

Otherwise the premixed stuff like Big Dog patties are all balanced with bone in. They’re really good, but the cost adds up if that’s all you’re feeding (unless dog is tiny.) 

 

 

edit: oh in your case BARF could be reasonably affordable for most of their diet. Probably barely need 1 patty a day per dog! And you can of course supplement with any other meaty bits as well.  

 

Edit: on the Big Dog website it says your dogs would barely need 1 patty a day between them so you’re in luck! 

The dog shop in town have the original Billinghurst patties, used them many years ago (before they were stocked in shops) with the standard poodles,cost me a fortune, would also give them stuffed chicken carcasses to make it a little cheaper.

At least my boys are little, we currently use Canidae dry and Ziwipeak tinned so if it’s no more expensive it will be ok.

 

[Guest crazydoglady99]

If you can find the time (time? what is that??), don't be afraid to make your own as well. They'll enjoy the variety, and definitely cheaper. Most butchers have their own 'offal mince' human grade.

I realised after..  that my tiny boy is 9.5kg, yours are much smaller. So maybe barf is the better starting point? Try bones again later, when you've settled into new diet?

[Rascalmyshadow]

Have you tried your dogs on rabbit?

We have a butcher in the next town that sells whole wild rabbits I was wondering if they are as rich as roo.

Hugo can’t seem to eat roo even cooked and in small amounts it makes him vomit.

Easing them into the pre made patties then slowly onto my home made stuff I think is probably a good option, Hugo is very sensitive to changing foods, Rascal isn’t so much of an issue.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

I have tried rabbit!!! Oh you are so lucky to be able to get them whole.

It's nothing like kangaroo. 

 

My 3 won't eat rabbit raw. But they love it cooked ot dried! They're quite easy to mince (head and all), so even a small mincer could probably do it.

 

Possibly I would consider making your own cooked version first, get some hearts minced (or chop in food processor), small amounts of liver, lots of cooked, blended vegetables.

Fry it up, start adding that to current food, then when only on that add raw. 

Scrambled eggs with some meat & veg is a nice easy one too.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Thanks I’m going to try that today, I have a couple of lamb hearts in the fridge so I’ll get I guess 1 rabbit and whatever liver they have and cook it all up with veggies, I can at least freeze it on small portions and add a little each night to their foods.

 

Funny you mention scrambled eggs because a couple of nights last week I gave them omelette with their dinner, we have 9 free range chooks (and two roosters) so there is always plenty of eggs to go round.

 

I’m also going to have a look and see if my food processor has a mincing blade, it’s got a whole range of fancy attachments so it just might.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

That's great!!!! I'm a big prepper over here, I get a bit of a kick out of making & portioning out meals.

 

I didn't want to get all crazy food lady on you..  the suggestion of cooked food was because, yes raw foods are most biologically appropriate and bioavailable for dogs, but if changes to diet cause inflammation in the gut, no nutrients will be assimilated. So it's better to go with cooked food, that's gentler on the digestive system, and then ease your way over to raw.

 

Yes scrambled eggs are perfect!! Just eggs, no cream or butter. I would never in a million years have made my dogs eggs for breakfast, but eggs were the only thing my lunatic Buddy did not react to on his nutruscan test. So eggs it is!

If you get a chance please look up using egg shells as a calcium supplement, its super easy. (I feed eggs, and egg shells to my chookies too!)

 

Oh I didn't think of food processor attachments! Great thinking!!

[Christine_72]

My dog would rather bury his bones than chew/eat them. He's the first dog I've ever had that didn't LOVE bones! 

 

I either buy mince with the bones already ground up, or i hammer chicken necks and cut them up into tiny pieces and mix them in with his food, my cat also gets some.

[Rascalmyshadow]

1 hour ago, Christine_72 said:

My dog would rather bury his bones than chew/eat them. He's the first dog I've ever had that didn't LOVE bones! 

 

I either buy mince with the bones already ground up, or i hammer chicken necks and cut them up into tiny pieces and mix them in with his food, my cat also gets some.

Oh so I’m not the only one with a weird dog, Rascal will bury them and then stand guard against anything that comes near, cats, Hugo, chooks doesn’t matter, he’ll do that for hours even in the rain until I chuck it out.

[Rascalmyshadow]

So I went to get the rabbit, jeepers was a bit shocked when I asked the price, $18 each, the butcher near our old house used to charge $10 each.

 

I didn’t get the rabbit but I got chicken frames, I’ve cut them up and I’ll just put them in the fry pan for a min and hopefully that will encourage Rascal.

 

Tomorrow I’ll see what else I can source locally.

 

Oh and I’ll look into using the egg shells since we have so many, how do I work out how much to give them?

 

This was so much easier with big non fussy dogs.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Rascalmyshadow