Dog barking in the morning.

[Gwp_owner]

Hi all 

I'm new to the forum.. so hello from me and puppy Willow

 

I have a 4.5 month old German Wirehaired pointer. She is great but has some annoying habits. 

 

At the moment she will sleep quietly most of the night and only waking once or twice and crying to be let out for a wee. At what age will she be able to sleep through and have that bladder control?

 

We walk her every morning for 20 mins to give her plenty of exercise and then feed her when we get back. After she has eaten we put her in the crate while we shower. But she screams bloody murder. This is becoming annoying as she can happily sit in the create in the evening when we are walking around the house. It's just when we are getting ready in the morning she screams. How can I curb this behaviour. I've tried ignoring it but she just gets louder and more screaming. 

 

We also come home at lunch for a half hour to give her a run around and a feed. Then when we come back home she gets another 20 min walk around the park so I feel she gets enough exercise in a day for her age. 

 

The other issue is she has a tendency to ignore me sometimes when I call her over and turns to sniff around. 

 

Is this normal for a dog to do this at this age? Will she eventually come around if I persist. She does get positive feedback if she does do it. 

 

I'm a first time dog owner so some friendly advise would be great. 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Gwp_owner

[Pjrt]

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Edited May 24, 2018 by mingaling

[Rebanne]

Hi and welcome. Your pup could be sleeping through the night any time now. One reason for waking is she might be cold. Has she plenty of blankets, is her crate covered? Maybe try a cheapie coat on her. Easy to make one from an old windcheater. Have you tried feeding her in the crate while you get ready? I think you have her exercise down right. Not too much and it's good she can get a run at lunchtime. There does seem to be a lot of crate time involved. How often is she left in the back yard for some free time? Maybe she could be fed outside in the morning? Can she not be free in the evenings while you are at home?

[Tassie]

Welcome Gwp_owner and Willow.       So the sleeping through thing varies from pup to pup.   My BC pup has been sleeping through pretty much from 10 weeks.  Do you take her out or let her out if she has to toilet in the night.   Taking out on lead, all very low key, wait for toilet, quiet praise then straight back in crate with a treat.     I usually limit water in the time before bedtime, but I always give a treat when the dogs go in their crates for bedtime .. even the 9,5 year old.

 

As far as the morning routine goes, I'd be feeding her in her crate and then seizing a moment while she's quiet, giving some of her meal in a puzzle toy or frozen Kong, that she scan work on while you're showering etc..  Or a bone or something like that.   I'd also cover the crate.    (If it helps, this is what I do with my youngster, who's also fond of the sound of her own voice.

 

My guess is she is probably arcing up in the morning predicting you leaving.

 

You know what ... I see a lot of exercise for this lucky pup, but nowhere near enough training.   She would benefit from some of that walking time being swapped out for interactive games with you.  They can be quiet games like It's Yer Choice .. a Susan Garrett game which I think you'll find in a Google search...   Any games (indoors and out) which build value for paying attention to you, chasing you, being close to you ... with high rates of reward for the dog .. either treats or toy play or both.  You're putting deposits in the back of value for you.   Have a look for Recallers Games .. there might be some free ones out there.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[Gwp_owner]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. 

 

I should of probably put more info in. I have tried to feed her in / out of the create and also inside and outside the house. 

 

I also use a ruffle Matt that encourages her to search for the food along with slowing her down. 

 

In the evening she is out of the crate all night whilst I'm up. And we play and train in the evening as well as on the walks. She now stops and sits at each curb before we cross the roads and heels. 

 

In the evening we train all the usual things. With a mix of treat rewards and praise reward so she doesn't become 100% treat driven. 

 

At 4 months she can Sit, lay down, stay ( I can walk away up o 80 yards with her staying) we also get her to stay while I put her food down and let it sit there for a few seconds before allowing her to eat. She can fetch return and drop, and the usual paw and high five. So I think she is pretty advanced judging by some of the other pups we saw at puppy school. 

 

It's the recall that seems to be hit and miss. Sometimes she will and others she won't. Very easily distracted. 

 

I'd like to think we have done things right and basically our lives revolve around her needs. 

 

Just a bit frustrating when she lapses when out at dog park. 

 

At night she is covered and has a thermal Matt/ towel and stuffed toy with ticking clock inside so I recon she is warm enough. 

 

We limit the water intake and when  she does wake in the night I take her out on lead and basically ignore her the whole time and put her straight back in. I think that's both trying to train her and the zombie like state I'm in at 4am. 

 

If I leave her the cries turn Into howling barks. 

 

Maybe it's just more time needed till she goes the whole night. I'm worried if I leave her she will wet her bed and then become accustomed to doing that. 

 

So basically I need to know if I'm on the right track. As things I read online contradict each other. 

[Rebanne]

You're on the right track but possibly expecting a bit much for a 4 1/2 month old puppy to reliably recall, especially at a dog park. All those smells. Personally there is no way I'd take any dog, let alone a pup, to a dog park. I'd up her bedding in the crate. Not a lot of fur in a very cold climate, unless you leave heating on overnight. If it was my pup, and I have greyhounds, she'd be in some sort of coat. All mine are coated at night now and I often leave the heating on for us all.

[Gwp_owner]

Thanks for the reply. I'll up her bedding tonight. While at the dog park (she has had all jabs inc kennel cough) I understand when she is playing with other pups to not recall as well. But when we are on our own she tends to look at me then turn to go sniff somthing sometimes.

 

It's just good to talk things through thanks all. 

[Dogsfevr]

I agree your expecting  way too much from this pup and some times you can over train things to the point you become boring and repetitive and the dog switches off ..

Remember there is no such thing as annoying habits ,she isn’t going out of her way to annoy you  so she is not understanding a step in the training which often happens when you expect more at that age or compare to other pups,Each breed is different so never compare just work with your dog and it’s level and abilities .

It sounds like you do a lot of training each day ,what is her fun being a puppy activities .Gundogs love there owners sometimes too much 

German Wires are more independent than there smooth cousins but great dogs .

What training steps have you taught for recalls ,have you done the long lines or are you expecting the pup too simply know better ,keep in mind at present your training an unreliable by letting her offleash so it’s taught behaviour .

 

keep in mind the pup is like a toddler at 18 months and experience ting it to know ,it doesn’t work that way and be prepared for various behaviour challenges as she gets older .

 

As to the morning keep in mind she has spent all night in the crate ,gets walked back in crate ,for some puppies this is a lot of wasted time to enjoy there morning,where does pup spend it’s time when your out .

I have gundogs and they love there crates but it’s a fine line between too much time in pups and them enjoying there morning free runs and learning to enjoy there backyard and being independent.

Independance is an important life skill too teach 

[KobiD]

Why does she need to be crated while you shower? Does she get into mischief? Does she stay crated the whole time you're at work until lunch? Do you know if she cries again when you leave after lunch?

 

With everything you want to try and limit the opportunities they have to learn and reinforce the behaviours you don't want to see. With the crying in the crate that means either waiting it out for silence to mark and reward the correct behaviour, or not putting her in the position when you don't have time to wait it out. Every time she cries and you cater to her you are teaching that she can get your attention through that action. In respect to the recall, I wouldn't ask unless if you can be reasonably sure she will listen. Usually I name call, and if she looks I'll turn and move away and as soon as she moves towards I will drop the cue, make it a quick game of chase and reward with play and treats. If she only shows a little attention at the name call the recall is unlikely to follow and I'll just calmly approach and close the distance down. Same goes for all cues.

 

Have you played any crate games at all? Or is it that when she goes in she stays in? Same routine every day? It would be very easy for her to preempt morning crate with a couple hours boredom. I also find our dog has peak energy/excitement levels first thing in the morning and again in the early evening. I find games that engage physically and also mentally at these times work best. For example most mornings I'll just play a quick game with the door, where I wait for her to sit before I approach it. She's very excited and wants to get up and jump around. I back off when she stands, etc. Game continues all the way up until I can step outside and she is rewarded with pats, and a game of rope/ball, with breakfast following soon after. Only takes a few minutes but immediately engages her mind, teaching patience and control... however that is for our high energy dog. As others have said you need to work the dog you have infront of you. View the behaviour you have, and then structure a plan to shape that into the behaviour you'd like to see. Small steps, and also remember she's still very young. She'll still be a puppy for another year or more yet. Don't expect too much, but be aware of what she learns through each interaction you have. 

[juice]

She is in her crate all night gets s walk and gets put back in , any reason she can’t be outside exploring ? I hope she isn’t crated while you are at work too ? 

[Gwp_owner]

She IS created while I'm at work like many other dogs are. She has enough space in the crate as set out by the humane treatment of animals website. 

 

She only ever spends 4 hours at a time during the day we are at work. I work rotas so as well as my partner being home weekends im also at home some days in the week. So it's not a 5 day straight affair. 

 

She spends 4 hours in a create with kong and toys as well as a radio playing and a webcam that we check while at work on an app on our phones. 

 

She will cry for 5 mins when we leave but not make a peep all the time she is in it. 

 

The reason I have crated her while I shower is that she has already had supervised time outside as well as a 20 min walk. If I leave her outside on her own she will then want to come in and jump at the door and bark while I'm showering As I'm trying to be a decent neighbor I dont want her barking at the door at 7am while some people might still be asleep next door. 

 

She does get a lot of training but it is done as games and also spends a lot of time playing with the ball with me. So as well as her 20 min walk this evening. She has done some light command training then followed by 15-20 mins chasing a ball around the garden. 

 

Just so your aware we get up at 6:15am. Go for a 20 min walk not around the block but along the river on lead and she spends lots of time sniffing around.

We get home and she eats. And we hang around in the garden for a bit.

 

She then goes Into her crate for 15 mins when asked. I don't have to push her in. While I shower. She cries.

 

I then let her out in the garden for 20 mins while she runs about and releaves herself. 

She then goes in crate with Kong, radio etc. 

 

4 hours later we return from work for lunch she spends 30 mins playing outside eats and back in create. 

 

4 hours later return home go straight out for 30 min walk. Return home eats dinner and chills with us with some training and play inside and outside. 

 

She only goes back in crate to go to bed. 

 

So in a 16 hour day she is in a crate 8 hours and 15 mins non consecutively. In my opinion that's a fair amount. Until she is older and can then move to her outside kennel and run that is pretty big. But at the min it's too cold for her to do that. 

 

So back to my original question 

 

Why do you think she cries for that 15mins I'm in the shower but not during the day when I'm at work? 

 

[Gwp_owner]

And in response to recall training. She started on the long lead and returns when called. Comes when called in the house. But given a little freedom in a fenced dog park she is hit and miss. When there are other dogs she is on the lead unless it's only one other dog and the other owner is happy to let them socialise and play as that is a fundamental part of pups growth. 

 

I was after some tips on how to best get her to pay more attention. 

 

If she doesn't come I turn and walk away that usually prompts her to come running. 

 

I'm told I'm expecting too much but when she can already do so much why am I made out to be to strict by asking how to get her to pay attention more when out in the open at this age. 

 

 

[KobiD]

Sounds good!

 

So really it's the 15 minutes that she wants to be with you while you shower that she feels she is missing out on something. A great opportunity to teach her independence! Give her something else to do that is of greater value that she can work on alone. Or have someone else help by keeping her busy/engaged while you shower. 

 

She is a dog. You can't really force her attention upon you, nor can you really compete with things she values more. You have to build that value up more and that comes through time and repetition. Thus, only recall her when you are confident she will and when she comes make a party out of it. Build the value, while limiting the opportunity she has to choose otherwise. Sometimes the thing that are valuing can also be a great reward. IE she wants to sniff, you have a successful recall and celebrate and as part of the reward you both go and thoroughly investigate the area some more. I often practice 'go sniff' followed by 'let's go'. It's part of our walks. She likes to scent along more than I prefer, however it allows us to manage it where she can have what she wants, yet she'll keep moving when I need or want her to.

 

It really is the time and practice in various situations, at different levels of excitement and distraction that builds reliability. It seems you have trained the behaviours you want. Now you just need to put in the time proofing them.

[Gwp_owner]

Thanks KobiD 

 

I'll put that into practice. 

[RuralPug]

I'd just like to mention one thing. Probably not a problem while she's under 6 months old. but I wouldn't make a habit of feeding her straight after her morning walk as that can lead to bloat (gastric torsion) which can be fatal.  Best to have an hour between exercise and a meal.
Although if her morning feed is via a snuffle mat, that would lower the risk of bloat because intake is not as fast. 

Everything else you are doing sounds wonderful!

[juice]

So she is in her crate all night then 8 hours a day too ? ( 4 hours in morning and 4 in afternoon ) . Poor dog , why isn’t she outside all day , your neighbours are up then ? 

[persephone]

11 hours ago, Gwp_owner said:

She IS created while I'm at work like many other dogs are. She has enough space in the crate as set out by the humane treatment of animals website. 

 

I have bolded  this, as it is important . here are some quotes from reputable sources ..page links provided .

 

Quote

 

Too much time in the crate

Be careful that your puppy doesn’t spend too much time in its crate. While it is a fantastic tool for toilet training puppies and preventing destruction, a dog of any age should not spend all day in a crate while you are at work and again when you go to bed. 

 

RSPCA

 

Quote

 

Dogs can be crated for 8 hours plus whilst your at work, whether they should be is another question.

Dogs need exercise, rest, rules, boundaries, satisfaction, play, engagement and many other things all in moderation.

If you choose to crate your dog/s throughout the day, I would be more interested to see what the other 16 hours a day looked like.

You can over and under anything, food, play, exercise, discipline and interaction are not excluded from excess.

I can’t answer how long is too long because it is something that each individual dog and owner need to decide on. I have seen people crate their dogs for 22 hours a day, and the other 2 hours was split into 5 or 6 walks on a leash, sounds a lot but that is what will happen if your dog injuries an ACL or similar.

 

K9 pro dog training

 

 

Honestly, living in a crate all night, and then most of the daylight hours  seems counter-productive to puppy development - esp. for a gundog ..a dog bred to be strong, quick minded and very active  

Perhaps I know different people, but I know no-one who leaves their dogs(esp. pups) in crates all day while they are at work. You have sourced information from different places ...and feel this is a suitable way to raise your pup .

being a first time dog owner can be terribly convoluted :P  there are a million different ways to put down a bowl of food, it seems! 

I'm going to use an example ...
someone has a baby ..all cute & gurgling in its cot ...
 

Baby gets left in its cot ..then a larger cot .Baby only gets taken outside for a few minutes a couple times a day , and down to the shops  every so often .

Baby misses feeling and hearing the wind ..of watching a day's different light changing . baby doesn't become comfortable with different textures  on its skin..and misses the different flowers and grasses , the chance to chase butterflies and baby misses out on the very important  skills of trying and learning to do things alone ..to dig/jump/roll/lie like a frog in the grass, and gain confidence .

You are doing very well with training ..it takes time  

it IS just so important  though for any youngster - be it elephant, human or dog   to learn how to just "be" ..to self play ..to be calm  by choice , and to be able to run off energy in a safe space   
Willow is a lovely name , and I hope you both enjoy your time here at D O L ! 
 

[Rebanne]

18 hours ago, Gwp_owner said:

At 4 months she can Sit, lay down, stay ( I can walk away up o 80 yards with her staying) we also get her to stay while I put her food down and let it sit there for a few seconds before allowing her to eat. She can fetch return and drop, and the usual paw and high five.

can she do all this reliably in the dog park?

[Dogsfevr]

Crate all day is typical in the US but not Australia especially in areas with no fencing .

I own Gundogs and would not crate that long and yes you are expecting  too much at this age ,the problem is when her personality gets stronger,more confident or bolder with age people always say but they can do all this so there just being naughty or annoying there not .

 

Her life at present revolves around living in a crate or training ,no real puppy free time to be that free spirited Gundog and at this point your training her to not cope outside depending on what your long term plan is during the day .

Yes being mindful of neighbours is very important but keep in mind your dog is not being exposed to outside noises or the ability to cope on her own ,you are teaching her to be reliant on you to do everything and in a breed that can be Velcro personality you may regret in a few months time and especially with winter coming up and then the neighbours will complain.

At this stage her crate is her backyard and being let out is on your terms so I totally get why she is whining in that moment ,in a crate all night ,a walk which doesn’t equate to freedom in her home then back in crate ,dog is learning the crate is becoming too much and she is wanting more free time .

And yes all my dogs are crate trained as they fly,travel in the car in a crate ,sit at shows in a crate and when unwell or had surgery but too much crate time is that too much .

 

I have owned 16 gundogs and even my young Gundogs at shows reach an age where there crate is like getting cabin fever and need some mental excitement and move this legs 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Dogsfevr

[KobiD]

I agree that is a long time to be crated, but as you've said it's not 7 days a week, and more likely to be 4-5 days. I assume you spend those days with someone home offering the freedoms as others have suggested. Letting her have time alone outside to just be a dog and all that jazz.

 

Every dog is different. Every owner has different expectations. Every environment is unique. You can only do what you feel works best to achieve the results you are looking for.

 

Some people want their dog in the bed with them, others in crates, and others don't let their animals inside at all. Who's to say what is right or wrong?