Problem with biting other dogs

[RonnieTheRottie]

I've had our boy since he was 8 weeks. His mum was a Rottie x Staffy, and she apparently bred with a stray, so we're not sure of the other breed. I've attached a photo so you can see.

 

He's now around 7.5months old. Most of the general puppy issues are gradually getting better. The one thing I'm really struggling with his regular obsession with biting other dogs. In particular their face/neck. He can play normally with many other dogs, but almost always when we're at the dog park, he will find one, and that's it. There is nothing I can do other than leave, as he fixes himself on the other dog, biting their faces and chasing them if they get away, to bite some more. It's usually the more submissive dogs he's doing it to. After a long day at work, I'm beginning to lose my patience with it.

 

Is there a reason he's doing this? Is it something he will just grow out of? Is there anything I can be doing to assist?

 

Thank you in advance for your comments.

[Two Best Dogs!]

It sounds like he's being a teenage bully, and you'll want to stop him before it becomes habit. When he starts, immediately go grab him (don't recall, walk over and grab him) and leash him. Don't talk to him. Then leave the park. He needs to learn that if he won't control himself then he doesn't get to "play" with the other dogs. Take him for a walk and return later when he's calmed down. Being he's young, might be a very long time later.

 

Honestly I'd avoid the dog park all together. Especially while he's being a brat and if that's the environment it happens in (dog parks are super exciting). Then enroll him in a dog school to get some training on behaving around other dogs and have a trainer/behaviorist look over him to make sure it isn't anything more serious than his breed mix + teenager boundary pushing. It's only going to take one chance for another dog to get sick of him, tell him off, Ronnie taking it wrong and then you have a dog fight. Which could range from not a good look for you to serious injury for Ronnie or other dog, or nearby dogs.

 

Keep up his play dates that don't result in this behaviour. But stop the visits that do. Putting the time in now, means later on when he's grown up you can get more safe freedom

[persephone]

Welcome  
teenagers!!  

have a read thru these links ..and around the site generally  I'm sure a lot of what you see will help you understand  what's happening. and what (not) to do . 
Sadly ..each time your lad does this, ..like those irritating human kids who poke/pull hair  , say rude things , a strong reaction increases  the effort put in   It is their REWARD..and is doing the victim harm some psychological harm each time . 

 

You seem willing to put in the work ..and it will be lovely when he grows up to have a handsome AND self-controlled big lad at your side :D 

LINK

 

LINK

[RonnieTheRottie]

13 hours ago, Thistle the dog said:

It sounds like he's being a teenage bully, and you'll want to stop him before it becomes habit. When he starts, immediately go grab him (don't recall, walk over and grab him) and leash him. Don't talk to him. Then leave the park. He needs to learn that if he won't control himself then he doesn't get to "play" with the other dogs. Take him for a walk and return later when he's calmed down. Being he's young, might be a very long time later.

 

Honestly I'd avoid the dog park all together. Especially while he's being a brat and if that's the environment it happens in (dog parks are super exciting). Then enroll him in a dog school to get some training on behaving around other dogs and have a trainer/behaviorist look over him to make sure it isn't anything more serious than his breed mix + teenager boundary pushing. It's only going to take one chance for another dog to get sick of him, tell him off, Ronnie taking it wrong and then you have a dog fight. Which could range from not a good look for you to serious injury for Ronnie or other dog, or nearby dogs.

 

Keep up his play dates that don't result in this behaviour. But stop the visits that do. Putting the time in now, means later on when he's grown up you can get more safe freedom

Thanks for your response. We have enrolled in obedience training which we've been to for 2 weeks already. However the training has been focused more on how to train him while at home and while on the leash, rather than how to assist his interactions with other dogs.

 

I acknowledge your comment regarding avoiding the dog park, however my main issue is that he has A LOT of energy. My partner and I both work full time, so when I get home from work, the dog park is probably the place he's able to burn the most energy. I have a feeling he may have some Kelpie mixed in, hence the high energy. I will definitely start mixing in some fast walks though, and hope he grows out of this phase eventually.

[persephone]

OK ....
What type of daily training routine does Ronnie have ? How many short sharp training sessions each day ? 
Which are his favourite interactive toys/puzzles?
How does he get his food  each day ? 
Does he get two walks a day ..one, or just the park run ? 
 

[JacAbik9]

Agree with the above re. your dog being a bully. My suggestions; 

 

1. Do not go to the dog park. The more chances he has to rehearse the behaviour, the stronger it will get. Go to a green space, snap a long line on him and play ball or do some training instead. Take his dinner out to an oval and throw it everywhere for him to hunt for (if there are no other dogs around). Hire a dog walker a few times a week to get rid of some of that energy. There are zillions of other options you can take instead of the dog park.  

2. Train. Train and train some more. If you had reliable obedience, you could recall him from his obnoxious behaviour and redirect him somewhere else. Then you could go to the dog park all you wanted! If you're not getting what you need from the classes you're attending, hire a competent trainer. If $$ is an issue, check out youtube tutorials on how to train a reliable recall. 

3. If you still insist on going to the dog park without reliable obedience and he's being a dick, go get him and stop him. Do not attempt to call him away if you don't have solid obedience. Protect the other dog, or their owner might decide to. I've gotten pretty nasty with unruly dogs harassing mine, or my client's dogs when their owners failed to do their job. It's better if you handle it.   

 

Your dog is engaging in completely normal behaviour for his age, but if you don't deal with it now then he'll just grow into it. You can do it!

[juice]

He won’t grow out of it because he is being rewarded for it . It will get worse , he will eventually pick the wrong dog and you will have a fight on your hands . 

I don’t go to dog parks as it’s full of badly behaved dogs . 

I had a high energy dog and I got a bike attachment to run him on , works wonders as they have to focus and run . 

[RonnieTheRottie]

1 hour ago, persephone said:

OK ....
What type of daily training routine does Ronnie have ? How many short sharp training sessions each day ? 
Which are his favourite interactive toys/puzzles?
How does he get his food  each day ? 
Does he get two walks a day ..one, or just the park run ? 
 

Hi. See below responses:

 

1) He has his obedience training on Sunday mornings. In-between that, his training sessions are not in a particular routine, but more just general "sits", "stays", "no's" etc when we're at home, in the garden, or on his walks. We reguarly use treats to reward him when he does something good.

2) I'm not sure he has a favourite toy. We have lots of toys scattered across the house and garden. Most of the time however, he's happy ditching the toys and focusing on our furniture or digging holes in the garden.... . Though that is getting better.

3) Food he gets dry biscuits for brekky. Then in the evening he gets his wet meal. This consists of mashed up veggies which I do myself (generally sweet potato, pumpkin, broccoli and a small amount of pasta), mixed in with pet mince from the local butcher at approx 60/40 ratio (the 40% being the veggies).

4) He only gets one good run/walk per day on week days while we're at work, then generally more on weekends. Then my parents take him for a couple of days every 2 or 3 weeks, where he goes to the beach twice a day.

 

Thanks for your help.

[RonnieTheRottie]

42 minutes ago, JacAbik9 said:

Agree with the above re. your dog being a bully. My suggestions; 

 

1. Do not go to the dog park. The more chances he has to rehearse the behaviour, the stronger it will get. Go to a green space, snap a long line on him and play ball or do some training instead. Take his dinner out to an oval and throw it everywhere for him to hunt for (if there are no other dogs around). Hire a dog walker a few times a week to get rid of some of that energy. There are zillions of other options you can take instead of the dog park.  

2. Train. Train and train some more. If you had reliable obedience, you could recall him from his obnoxious behaviour and redirect him somewhere else. Then you could go to the dog park all you wanted! If you're not getting what you need from the classes you're attending, hire a competent trainer. If $$ is an issue, check out youtube tutorials on how to train a reliable recall. 

3. If you still insist on going to the dog park without reliable obedience and he's being a dick, go get him and stop him. Do not attempt to call him away if you don't have solid obedience. Protect the other dog, or their owner might decide to. I've gotten pretty nasty with unruly dogs harassing mine, or my client's dogs when their owners failed to do their job. It's better if you handle it.   

 

Your dog is engaging in completely normal behaviour for his age, but if you don't deal with it now then he'll just grow into it. You can do it!

Thanks. I'll try! He's good in most other areas. It's such a shame that this issue is letting his entire behaviour down.

[RonnieTheRottie]

34 minutes ago, juice said:

He won’t grow out of it because he is being rewarded for it . It will get worse , he will eventually pick the wrong dog and you will have a fight on your hands . 

I don’t go to dog parks as it’s full of badly behaved dogs . 

I had a high energy dog and I got a bike attachment to run him on , works wonders as they have to focus and run . 

Well the thing is, he really only does it to the more submissive dogs, so unfortunately can keep doing it without re-course. I don't think he's an overly dominant dog, so it's almost like he takes advantage when he has authority over the select few. The few times I've seen him try it on bigger, more dominant dogs, they've told him off straight away and he doesn't attempt it again.

[RonnieTheRottie]

I should clarify, I don't think the biting is overly malicious. As in, the other dog rarely (or probably never, in fact) whelps or makes a noise as though it hurt them. I'm convinced it's him getting too excited and trying to play. But it's not acceptable either way, and once he has decided to start that behaviour, he will not come when called. In most other instances, he will. Thanks for the responses so far!

[RonnieTheRottie]

Further, for those that are suggesting no doggie parks at all, is there a worry of not being adequately socialised. I'd be a bit conscience that it might solve the issue at hand, but create other issues down the track.

[juice]

i have never taken any of my dogs to dog parks, although i have walked on the outside of many and seen what goes on,but have people i have met over the years whose dogs i trust to play and run with mine.

Dog parks are a lottery , it only takes one dog to kick off and its all on. I  feel sorry for the poor dogs he is picking on, not a good experience for them.

Remove him when he starts, walk around the outside, take him back in ,if he doesn't behave take him home.

[mackiemad]

Your dog is almost 8 months old - he's socialised. You can continue to condition him, train him etc but in terms of socialisation, while he can still go backwards and forwards (usually triggered by an event or by training) his main standard is kinda already there. 

 

You have a young, energetic and intelligent dog that knows what he can get away with. You need to do more structured training every day, I'd do it at least twice a day. 15 minutes before brekky and 10 minutes before you head out in the evening and probably another 10 before he gets his dinner. Work on different things and demand better and better responses (quicker, no leaning in the sit, more eye contact, longer duration of stays, slowly moving out of sight during stays etc). You can also start training some fun tricks etc during this time (you tube will probably be your friend here). You will tire him out much more by challenging him mentally than double the same amount of time of physical exercise. Also consider feeding him from puzzles, Kong's, snuffle mats etc. Pick up his toys in the yard and rotate them so they remain interesting, at the moment they're just sitting there and they've become part of the furniture and boring.

 

I'd also spend more time walking him on lead every day, maybe walk to and from the park. Even better cycle there and back and run him off the bike if you need. You can build some training into these walks too, develop manners and respect for people, the lead and other dogs - being able to walk past another dog without reacting, saying hello, getting excited or wanting to play is actually good doggy manners and it sounds like he is over stimulated at the park (because he is under stimulated everywhere else) and not able to control his excitement and behaviour. 

 

Ask your trainer about the behaviour and how to address it in the moment (and before and after) because if you're in a generic class (which it sounds like you are) other owners are probably experiencing the same issue and would also like answers! You're paying for these classes so find the best way to get everything you need out of them. 

 

Chances are if you start to give him more structure and challenge him mentally he'll probably start to grow out of it. He needs to learn how to inhibit his own behaviours, manners and that other dogs are really not the be all and end all. All of that you need to teach him as teenage dogs don't know these things unless they're taught, he's a cross of some working breeds so he'll probably relish the education process.

[persephone]

2 hours ago, RonnieTheRottie said:

Further, for those that are suggesting no doggie parks at all, is there a worry of not being adequately socialised

did you read from the links I sent ?   he is well & truly socialised with dogs . He ,sadly, has bad manners though.

[persephone]

3 hours ago, RonnieTheRottie said:

But it's not acceptable either way, and once he has decided to start that behaviour, he will not come when called

if you go back to the links I sent .. this signifies that in this scenario Ronnie places a greater value on these dogs than he does on you ... 'socialising'  is a fine line . 
pups/dogs need to learn doggy manners , acknowledge other dogs are there , while believing their OWNER is the provider of all things wonderful ..the only source of treats/home comforts and leadership . Owners are to be listened to and looked for and focussed on , no matter what other dogs are doing  

[persephone]

20 minutes ago, mackiemad said:

You will tire him out much more by challenging him mentally than double the same amount of time of physical exercise. Also consider feeding him from puzzles, Kong's, snuffle mats etc. Pick up his toys in the yard and rotate them so they remain interesting, at the moment they're just sitting there and they've become part of the furniture and boring.

 

I'd also spend more time walking him on lead every day, maybe walk to and from the park. Even better cycle there and back and run him off the bike if you need. You can build some training into these walks too, develop manners and respect for people, the lead and other dogs - being able to walk past another dog without reacting, saying hello, getting excited or wanting to play is actually good doggy manners and it sounds like he is over stimulated at the park (because he is under stimulated everywhere else) and not able to control his excitement and behaviour. 

mackiemad's suggestions here are spot on    Doing 'work' - working his brain ..learning, practicing ,will indeed take the edge off , when combined with decent walks ..and some 'calm down exercises as well   
The more running and playing a dog gets ..the fitter they get, and the more running and playing  is needed to physically tire them ;) 

[Tassie]

Other than the fact that he's too young (and it would probably be too dangerous) to cycle with him, mackiemad and persephone have nailed it.   Great prescription for you.   He needs to learn boundaries and manners, and that you actually set the boundaries.   Teaching all sorts of stuff will wear him out, and bond him more closely to you.     A couple of general training principles to keep in mind are to set the dog up for success and try not to allow repetitions of behaviour you don't want to see again.    You might consider too that when he's interacting so inappropriately with other dogs, he is having a very negative impact on the emotional and social development of those dogs.   Part of socialisation (teaching dogs to live peaceably in our society) is making sure we keep not only our own dogs but other dogs safe.

 

[RonnieTheRottie]

Thank you very much everyone. I can't respond to everyone but rest assured I have taken everything on board (and read the links), and appreciate all of your input. I will limit his dog park action and youtube some more mental stimulation drills for him and see how we go. I look forward to reporting back in a few weeks with the (hopefully positive) progress.

 

[persephone]

Ronnie  ..your owner  is now setting forth on a home-schooling routine  ;)  You are a fortunate lad . Your owner cares so much that she sought advice ..and is now  working on new things to help you learn ..to help you control your teen impulses, and to show you how wonderful your relationship can be    Enjoy!!