Puppy issues overnight

[Gettehlife]

I took Ollie, my 10 week old German Spitz, home on Saturday, it's now Tuesday and while nights haven't been easy, I'm worried it'll get progressively worse if things don't change.

Right now he has been potty trained well enough that he will let me know if he needs to go outside to do his business. We've set up a crate inside a playpen and that's pretty much his area; play, sleep, etc.

 

He's 10 weeks so I try to take him out every 2.5-3 hours overnight and I've been experimenting; right now the consistent schedule is he seems to sleep at 11pm, potty break at 2:30-3am, and our morning starts at 5:30-6am when my parents get ready for work.

 

Currently I'm sleeping on the couch downstairs near him for easy access to take him for his potty breaks. I'm still working on his crate training and when he's been crate trained I want to be able to let him sleep in the crate by me in my bedroom.

 

The main issue is that when I take him out for a potty break he wants attention. Tonight he let me know he needed to go potty so I took him out and put him back in his area, but he started crying (which I ignored) until he began to bark, which I didn't want to tolerate as my parents have work early and I don't want to make my neighbours hate us. I know that me responding to his barking is teaching him that barking will make me come, and that's what I want to fix. While this could be fixed with crate training, it seems he wants me to be around him while he does this thing (I'm currently typing this sitting in his playpen while he's chewing on toys by himself next to me, and I'm paying him no attention) and I don't want to think JUST crate training will solve all of this, will it?

 

I thought the issue was that he woke me up before I woke him up and he is full of energy, but last night I woke him up for his potty break and while he did go, he was active after too.

 

Even if I'm just sitting on the couch near him, he'll still want my attention. Same process; he cries, I ignore, he barks, I come and try to pay him no attention but it seems me being around him is all he wants. The first night I took him to the toilet and put him back and he slept straight away, but things haven't been the same since. I know what I'm doing is teaching him the wrong things and that's why I want to change it, I really need help because this is beginning to affect my health due to the lack of sleep.

[karen15]

He can still bark in a crate, so crate training won't fix your problem of barking for attention.

 

If i were you, i would try to teach him an appropriate way to ask for attention. My preferred way is they come over and sit quietly. To do that, if he cries for attention, ask him to be quiet. As soon as he is quiet, make a fuss, give him a treat and play with him. Do not allow him to escalate to barking. If he does bark walk away, don't walk over to him as that's telling him barking gets you to come. Obviously that's not something to start in the middle of the night. Work on it during the day.

 

Night toilet time should be toilet, back to bed. Little interaction on your part. Are you closing him in his crate at night or can he run around the pen? If he can run around, I'd be closing him in the crate. There is no reason the crate can't be in your bedroom now. My westie was in the crate next to the bed from the first night. If left loose, he'd want to play. The crate kept him quiet and he slept really well.

 

ETA I've just reread your post. Is the pup allowed out of the pen or is it always in the pen? I only used a pen when i wasn't around to supervise ie went out. For the rest of the time pup had free rein to run around like a dervish and explore his environment. He never cried or barked for attention as he could just come to me when he wanted.

Edited April 9, 2018 by karen15

[KobiD]

I recall having this issue as well. As above, the key is to stop the behaviour from being practiced and learnt. Sometimes easier said than done, but requires a bit of creative thinking and trial and error. When our little one was a puppy I had a small pen (only big enough for a bed, basically a topless crate) which she only went in for bed time. The first few nights she'd sleep there and I simply laid beside her on the ground, quietly. I was with her and when she'd fall asleep I'd go back to bed. 

 

Have had similar issues with the barking at the door while the family eats dinner. She still tries it on from time to time, but with the right timing you can mark and reward the behaviours you like. For us, that could be when she lays quietly by the door I will mark get up and take her a treat. When she barks I will either ignore her or redirect her to another learnt behaviour instead, release and then see if she decides to offer a better behaviour than attention barking. 

[Gettehlife]

4 hours ago, karen15 said:

Night toilet time should be toilet, back to bed. Little interaction on your part. Are you closing him in his crate at night or can he run around the pen? If he can run around, I'd be closing him in the crate. There is no reason the crate can't be in your bedroom now. My westie was in the crate next to the bed from the first night. If left loose, he'd want to play. The crate kept him quiet and he slept really well.

I leave him in his pen because I wasn't confident he was comfortable enough in his crate. He often sleeps on the floor, wakes up in the middle of his sleep and goes into his crate which is where I usually find him when I take him out for his toilet break. I'll try closing him inside his crate to see how he goes.

 

4 hours ago, karen15 said:

ETA I've just reread your post. Is the pup allowed out of the pen or is it always in the pen? I only used a pen when i wasn't around to supervise ie went out. For the rest of the time pup had free rein to run around like a dervish and explore his environment. He never cried or barked for attention as he could just come to me when he wanted.

I try to confine him to the pen for him to get comfortable as I wanted that to be his space, I almost treat the pen as if I was crate training. I never really thought of this until you've mentioned it. I might try to let him out more throughout the day, I was just scared he'd chew up some things around the house so I wanted him to stay in a safe area designated for him

 

EDIT: One thing i've noticed, if he knows he's alone he doesn't spend too long crying for attention, but he knows someone is in the area he'll try to get their attention. For example, I usually go upstairs to my bedroom where I can still hear him if he cries, but he doesn't make any sound and when I go downstairs he's wide awake as if he's woken up a few minutes ago

Edited April 10, 2018 by Gettehlife

[juice]

So he lives in a pen ? No wonder he wants attention . 

[Tassie]

I'd be having a night crate (covered) beside your bed.   Pop him into his night crate when you go to  bed ... maybe with a small biscuit ... then turn out the light and turn off your phone and go to sleep.   If he whinges, you can talk softly to him, or let him sniff or chew your fingers.        Have a lead with you, so when he tells you he needs to go out, you quietly attach lead, take him outside, wait quietly with him while he toilets, quietly praise, then straight back to his night crate with a small biscuit maybe, and shut the crate,    Then back to sleep.         For the daytime, if he's in his pen cos you can't be with him, try things like puzzle toys to keep him am

[karen15]

Tassie, my westie has me well trained - no treats no sleeps LOL

[Tassie]

1 hour ago, karen15 said:

Tassie, my westie has me well trained - no treats no sleeps LOL

  It's the routine at my place too ..or wherever we happen to be sleeping ...their crates are the first things into dog friendly accommodation if we're away.   Then on the cue bedtime, the Border Collies head for their crates and hop in .. waiting for their biscuit or whatever treat they're getting.   Then that's it for the night, unless they're unwell.   My puppy = 13 months old today - did have to go out at 2.00 the first night she arrived, but has slept through the night ever since.   She'll stir occasionally, but because her crate is next to my bed, I can soothe her easily.   The 9.5 year old still heads straight for his crate at bedtime .. even though the door has been off the one at home for 4 or 5 years .. and open for a couple of years before that.   He'll get out if he gets too warm, but is almost always back there as soon as he cools off.

[Gettehlife]

I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions, I’ll try to apply as many of them as I can

 

Could his napping schedule also affect this? He sleeps around 11pm but has a nap around 7-8pm and also before his dinner. He’s usually up for around 2 hours before he gets tired. Should I avoid letting him have his nap after dinner?

[RuralPug]

2 hours ago, Gettehlife said:

I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions, I’ll try to apply as many of them as I can

 

Could his napping schedule also affect this? He sleeps around 11pm but has a nap around 7-8pm and also before his dinner. He’s usually up for around 2 hours before he gets tired. Should I avoid letting him have his nap after dinner?

Growing puppies of his age do need their naps.
Crate in the bedroom with you, as has been suggested.
Some puppies like a large stuffed toy to sleep with in their crate - but others will proceed to de-stuff the toy - only one way to find out which category your pup falls into.
Try the night potty break on a leash and ignore him until he potties then heaps of praise, a quick cuddle then back to bed. Puppies will try to have it their own way but are happiest if you insist on a routine.

[karen15]

Don't stop him napping. My westie is three and doesn't make it through the night without going to the toilet. Neither do I, so how can i expect him to? The dog door is open and on the odd occasion it isn't, he gives a single bark or a growl if it's super urgent.

 

 

[Gettehlife]

The crate is currently downstairs in the kitchen, if I want to crate him into my bedroom do I get him in then carry him while he's awake or let him sleep first and carry him up?

[Dogsfevr]

We have never ever set a clock for our pups ,our current pups from 10 weeks slept in a crate alone from 9 pm till 6 am spotlessly clean .

Pups from certain ages can hang on easily overnight .

Puppy pens are awesome but your teaching your pup to be totally reliant on humans.

At 10 weeks he needs to be enjoying running outside ,investigating the home within reason and learning the home rules and how to get out or alert you too the door .The pen is there for naps,feeding and times when you can’t watch but if that is his world 7 days a week it’s a boring life 

The pen at this point is it’s backyard and when you come to it it’s time for human time .

You need to teach this pup ASAP confidence,independence and how to cope or things will only get harder and it will be winter 

[Gettehlife]

After looking back, I realise I do have him quite reliant on me. And the way I've set up the playpen is that it's almost his crate, making it more difficult for him to sleep in his actual crate. I'm definitely going to start working on him being separated from me during the day

[karen15]

I find people seem to make raising a dog very complicated. It's not that hard. If you start as you mean to continue then you are most of the way there. By that i mean if you want your dog to sleep in a crate next to your bed, that is where they go from day one. You're not going to keep your dog in a pen all of it's life, so start the way it will be living, whether that be inside, outside or a mix. At puppy stage, they're like toddlers exploring and learning about their environment. Allow them to do that. Allow them to move away from you, but keep an eye on them to keep them safe. As they get older (16 weeks or so) they can have small amounts of less supervision in safe areas. Yes, they need a pen if there isn't a safe place when you go out, but other than that, pens should be used sparingly IMO. They will never learn if they can't experiment and explore and won't suddenly know XYZ is right or wrong if you don't invest the time now to teach them. 

 

If you want an obedient dog, again training starts from day one, not when they reach some magic age. They can easily learn to sit before they get meals and you just build slowly on what you ask. Pups are babies with short attention spans so learn best IMO if the lesson is short ie the couple of seconds before dinner is put down. You can call them over during the day and give something yummy and bingo, you're starting to teach recall.

 

I think the above poster didn't mean that you interact less with your pup to help them become independent. Certainly not be separated from him during the day. He needs you at the moment. But he also needs to run around and look at things and to learn how to play and amuse himself in appropriate ways.

 

 

[Gettehlife]

1 hour ago, karen15 said:

I think the above poster didn't mean that you interact less with your pup to help them become independent. Certainly not be separated from him during the day. He needs you at the moment. But he also needs to run around and look at things and to learn how to play and amuse himself in appropriate ways.

Yeah I just want him to be less dependant on me because I feel like i'm babying him and he needs me to do anything and everything

 

I've now taken away the playpen and only gonna take it out when I can't supervise him. Since making this post I've let him roam more freely around the house

 

I definitely realised, I should really start training him to sleep where I want him to in the future. I just struggled to decide whether in the future I want him to sleep downstairs or upstairs in my room.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Gettehlife

[Dogsfevr]

 

4 hours ago, Gettehlife said:

I do mean spend less time, a pup of that age should happily be playing by itself and enjoying the ability to amuse it self and play with its toys ,amuse itself in the garden or play inside .Pup can pop it’s head in and say hi your still there but enjoy going off enjoying a dogs world 

We tell our puppy owners sleeping choices are less important than setting a pup to survive life when no one is home .

We encourage all our puppy buyers to by a pen as there a wonderful tool but over use can create another issue and embracing training of a pup in good weather is a must ,reteaching in winter is hard 

[Tassie]

4 hours ago, Gettehlife said:

... 

I definitely realised, I should really start training him to sleep where I want him to in the future. I just struggled to decide whether in the future I want him to sleep downstairs or upstairs in my room.

Unless there's a good reason not to have him in his crate in your bedroom, that would always be my choice.   Especially when he's little, it's so much easier to do the house training, and also it makes bedtime a special thing, rather than just being in the area he's in all the rest of the time.

 

Just a thought .. with stairs in the house, it's worth investing in a babygate to block unauthorised excursions up stairs, and also to protect him from injury on the stairs.   One of the training things is to teach him to do stairs thoughtfully and carefully .. so probably concentrating on going upstairs slowly,  but carrying him downstairs for the moment.    (Thinking in terms of avoiding injury here).

 

Just thought .. we hadn't asked what size he is ... and we haven't seen photos  .

[Gettehlife]

3 hours ago, Tassie said:

Unless there's a good reason not to have him in his crate in your bedroom, that would always be my choice.   Especially when he's little, it's so much easier to do the house training, and also it makes bedtime a special thing, rather than just being in the area he's in all the rest of the time.

 

Just a thought .. with stairs in the house, it's worth investing in a babygate to block unauthorised excursions up stairs, and also to protect him from injury on the stairs.   One of the training things is to teach him to do stairs thoughtfully and carefully .. so probably concentrating on going upstairs slowly,  but carrying him downstairs for the moment.    (Thinking in terms of avoiding injury here).

 

Just thought .. we hadn't asked what size he is ... and we haven't seen photos  .

I guess it's just the pain of having to carry up a wire crate every single night. He's been sleeping downstairs on the floor AND the crate, would he be okay to sleep in the crate in my bedroom or should I focus on training him to be comfortable with the crate beforehand?

 

Here's a link to some photos of him - https://imgur.com/a/eiEkg

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Gettehlife

[Dogsfevr]

Most good breeders have already exposed there pups to a great whether in the car or at home