Adoption fee "too expensive"

[persephone]

3 minutes ago, Powerlegs said:

Oh that old chestnut. 

I make no absolutely apologies for rescuing old dogs, nor spending the money on them. 

Nor do I apologise for our adoption policies or adoption fees.

If you don't like it, open your own doors to anything or anyone homeless and see if you can look them in the eye and say they aren't worth it. 

DDD does amazing things for her houseful of dear old things ...    Their photos show just how they repay every moment and dollar ......

[Two Best Dogs!]

Some people value old dogs and will pay that fee for them. So be it. 

 

Some will pay even more for a small little healthy ambiguous fluffy. So what, if they value it at that? Can use the “extra” from that for the old blind dog. 

 

If soneone don’t value a certain dog at a certain price, instead of complaining about it...  they should go find one that does meet what they  are willing to pay instead of fussing over rescues not pricing dogs on their personal “quality” rating. 

[Maddy]

My experience with the hagglers is that they end up being a nightmare to deal with and it's best to just tell them to look elsewhere, even if they do eventually agree to the adoption cost.

My adoption fee is relatively low ($250 for a large breed, vet work alone usually leaves me in the red) and I've had people tell me that if I'm getting the dog for free, I should be giving them away. If someone has a problem with a rescue barely covering costs, they're free to get a giveaway dog from Gumtree and spend a heap of money on vet work and hope to christ the dog fits in well (because if it doesn't, they're s**t out of luck).

 

As for meeting other pets in the family, this seems like a given to me. Even two otherwise lovely dogs can decide they just don't like each other, and wouldn't you rather know that before you brought the dog home? If someone refused a meet and greet or a homecheck, they wouldn't be getting a dog from me.

[Malti]

6 hours ago, W T said:

is this also valid if this dog was surrendered by a BYB who couldn't sell it because people interested in buying it have been shot down in flames for attempting to buy from an unethical breeder? if the answer is NO: that means every surrendered dog with a BYB history has to be euthanized? if the answer is YES: why get people shot down in flames if they don't stick to the detour of surrendering and adoption?

Rescues do not cause the problems, BYBer's and irresponsible owners do. Trying to type the two together is hilariously pathetic.
 

5 hours ago, W T said:

silly? - maybe an inconvenient question. If rescues don't differentiate between dogs from "BYB" and "non-BYB", thus providing an convenient outlet / surrendering option for BYB: don't they support the system too like anyone who buys directly from a BYB?

 

Eta: or, in other words: what differences are there re someone having to pay an "adoption fee" compared to buying the dog - for perhaps less money - from a BYB? yes, the BYB will get the money, but on the other side there is also no work for the rescue involved. For the dog it might be better to find a new owner without much detours. And as long as BYB can conveniently get rid of unsellable stock by just surrendering the dog nothing will change anyway. 

So if a rescue saves a litter from the pound they have endorsed BYBing because they don't allow dogs to die for the simple reason of BYBers not being responsible for the dogs they bred and dumping them. You seem to miss the point rescue did not breed the dogs they save, they rescue them. 
Handing money over to a BYBer is to endorse BYBers continuing. Paying an adoption fee is endorsing rescues. Who could ever have figured the difference out.
Here is the story. BYBers like money for their pups they bred, will ask for money for the breeding stock they no longer have time for. Their money is not exclusively put back into their breeding dogs unlike rescues who put any 'profit' back into saving another dog in existence because of a BYBer

4 hours ago, W T said:

this is a pure breed forum?

 

now, pure breed is for many dog owners linked somehow to quality. And the term quality is often used by breeders to justify the price for the dog, and I guess there is nothing wrong with it.

 

However, if I see the quality of some dogs (age, blind, deaf, on medications etc.) advertised for adoption, IMO it is understandable that people interested in these kind of dogs might think that the adoption fee asked for is too high.

Pure breed forum with a rescue section, who knew rescue would have crossbreeds!
Hmm 

3 hours ago, W T said:

you are assuming - and believe it or not, paying $ 350 or more for a health?-checked 9 year old blind and deaf dog, that is also on drugs, isn't a bargain for everyone.

I am sure it isn't a 'bargain' for everyone. I never realised rescues were the bargain bin world for dogs! Just because you don't want the 'non bargain' dog it does not quantify that being the case for everyone that doesn't mind a non perfect rescue dog and can give that 'non bargain' dog a great life by paying a small adoption fee (go check out some BYBer fee's you are going into $1000+ for non papered dogs and people are obviously paying that (hence the old supply/demand consumer pattern). 
Is someone pressuring you to adopt this said 9yr old blind and deaf dog? Is the rescue with that dog ringing you saying you must adopt their dog? If not, chill, breathe, it is okay, no one is asking you to do anything you don't want to do. You will be okay, and so will the dog.

2 hours ago, W T said:

Thank you - I wasn't so sure about this.

 

People forget that most mortals and organisations - and I guess rescues too - have to work on a budget. Now as a rescue you can spend a lot of the available budget on a 9 year old sick dog, or you get him euthanized and spend the money saved on vet bills etc. on 10 other dogs that are in a better shape and have a better outlook.

 

This thread wouldn't have been opened if there wouldn't be some pressure from outside on rescues re this adoption fee, and I believe this pressure would be less if the quality of the dogs in question would justify the price. However, if people - count me in - get the feeling that a lot of money is spent on dogs that might be better euthanized (dare that I say this) those people will be likely less supportive. The odd saying "you get what you pay for" definitely doesn't match the pricing policy of some rescues.

So do you kill every 9yr old 'sick' dog or just dogs that find themselves in rescue? Did you just kill your own 9yr old 'sick' dog?

What rescues do is their choice. No one requires your endorsement. Endorsement comes from those that support rescues with the dogs in their care.

Many a rescue is not killing dogs as you would like. Do you have a scale model of the price you would like rescues to apply to adoption fee's? Is their excluded illnesses that should possibly reduce the adoption fee again? I would love to see it.

 

34 minutes ago, W T said:

it is actually not my personal quality rating, but a rating that is used on this forum again and again (and from posters here in this thread) when it comes to buying a pedigree dog from an "ethical" breeder to highlight the benefits in comparison to buying a dog from an "unethical" breeder! But when it comes to rescue, these quality standards are suddenly not valid anymore. Seems to be pretty hypocritical to me.

'IMO it is understandable that people interested in these kind of dogs might think that the adoption fee asked for is too high.' IMO is in my opinion, hence your personal quality rating, keep your trolling straight please.

'However, if people - count me in - get the feeling that a lot of money is spent on dogs that might be better euthanized (dare that I say this) those people will be likely less supportive.' (personal opinion again, see how you counted yourself in) .Yet rescues who choose not to do as you believe are still around. It is alright for your opinion, it is just funny you think your values and judgement's are some how supposed to shake the rescue world and for you to have opened the world up to the truth. When all it is that you don't like rescues unless they do as your endorse. Yet every day you don't open your own rescue and apply your adoption fees (or zero if you can make that a viable option) only saving under 9yr dogs that do not require vetwork more than the stardard microchip, vacc, desex. Rehome as you please, the world is just not right.  

How can it be hypocritical of rescues, to rescue dogs already in existence because of BYBers? Whatever way you spin your wisdom it still does not correlate to what rescues are doing and I don't particularly care if you believe it for the rest of your life. Bored on a Thursday, #trolllife
 

[Animal House]

I'd be more than happy to give a home to a little rescue dog, most who have been abused/neglected/overbred.

  It's called having a heart, and opening it up to take in the discarded, unwanted oldies.  We don't euthanise old people/sick people, why do it with dogs who through no fault of their own have had a rough life.

 

Don't want to buy an oldie WT?   Then don't, that simple really.

Rescue has always been a tough gig, for those that rescue, those that foster care, and those who try to make their life (however short or long) the best days they have left.

[W T]

4 minutes ago, Animal House said:

I'd be more than happy to give a home to a little rescue dog, most who have been abused/neglected/overbred.

  It's called having a heart, and opening it up to take in the discarded, unwanted oldies.  We don't euthanise old people/sick people, why do it with dogs who through no fault of their own have had a rough life.

 

Don't want to buy an oldie WT?   Then don't, that simple really.

Rescue has always been a tough gig, for those that rescue, those that foster care, and those who try to make their life (however short or long) the best days they have left.

I'm not against rescue! But IMHO there shouldn't be a double quality standard re dogs offered from "BYB" and dogs offered from rescues! Offering - no matter from whom!!! - dogs with all kind of issues as described above doesn't do the dog world a favor.

[Malti]

11 minutes ago, W T said:

That is exactly the same argumentation anybody who buys a dog from a BYB can use. The buyer doesn't breed the dog, he just rescue it. But that's just my "truth", and I understand that the truth always needs two, one who speaks out, and one who understands, and if there is only one, then, hey, he must be a troll.

Did you miss the bit about supply and demand of BYBers? BYBers are only around and commanding prices as high as Registered Breeders ask because there are people out their wiling to pay the crazy price for a desirable BYB dog. People stop buying, they stop breeding because they aren't making money.

I like the bit where you missed how rescues put any money back into their dogs in their care unlike BYBers.  

You have formulated an opinion with little knowledge. You chop and change your statements. Typical trolling behaviour. 

When are you opening your rescue? Put your money where your mouth is, because rescues do it every day unlike you who do not like how rescue runs yet won't stand up an be counted except for an opinion of little relevance.

1 minute ago, W T said:

I'm not against rescue! But IMHO there shouldn't be a double quality standard re dogs offered from "BYB" and dogs offered from rescues! Offering - no matter from whom!!! - dogs with all kind of issues as described above doesn't do the dog world a favor.

How are you doing the dog world a favour?

[Papillon Kisses]

SO, GETTING BACK ON TOPIC...

 

I wonder if it might help to state what the adoption fee is including at a fraction of the price. Something along the lines of:

 

Fido’s adoption fee of $x comes with the following inclusions (or includes the following, or helps cover the follow, etc):

Full vet exam

Desexing

Dental scale, polish and extractions under anaesthsia

Heartworm test

C3 or C5 vaccination (whatever you do)

Microchipping

Lifetime registration (or whatever is applicable in your state)

Flea, tick, intestinal and heartworm treated

... and anything else you do.

 

State it from the outset in a huge list and maybe it would help people better appreciate the adoption fee? 

 

And no, you are not too strict.  

[Maddy]

3 minutes ago, Papillon Kisses said:

SO, GETTING BACK ON TOPIC...

 

I wonder if it might help to state what the adoption fee is including at a fraction of the price. Something along the lines of:

 

Fido’s adoption fee of $x comes with the following inclusions (or includes the following, or helps cover the follow, etc):

Full vet exam

Desexing

Dental scale, polish and extractions under anaesthsia

Heartworm test

C3 or C5 vaccination (whatever you do)

Microchipping

Lifetime registration (or whatever is applicable in your state)

Flea, tick, intestinal and heartworm treated

... and anything else you do.

 

State it from the outset in a huge list and maybe it would help people better appreciate the adoption fee? 

 

And no, you are not too strict.  

Most rescues (that I've seen, anyway) have this sort of information with their adoption price. You could go one step further and set out exact costs, something I've done before, but so many of these people seem to think they could do it cheaper somehow. "Oh, desexing cost $180, I bet that's using an expensive vet" (it's using an incredibly cheap vet who does a 20% discount for rescues). People who want to nit-pick this stuff will helpfully offer you plenty of advice on how you could save costs, don't worry.

[Papillon Kisses]

Good point!

Edited April 5, 2018 by Papillon Kisses
ETA good point to Maddy, not to some others...

[Maddy]

6 minutes ago, Papillon Kisses said:

Good point!

To me, it's pretty simple. A puppy from a BYBer might cost.. say $500. That will include maybe a microchip, maybe a first vaccination and maybe a worming. Often, from what I've seen down here, it includes none of the above and the prices (even on less desirable crossbreeds) are $800+. So for your money, you get nothing but a dog and a gamble on temperament.

On the other hand, buy from a rescue and pay an average adoption fee of $350 and you get definitely desexed, microchipped, vaccinated, flea/worm treated and temperament assessed. The rescue dog might not be an 8 week old puppy but if (like WT), you want to reduce a pet to value for money spent, the rescue looks better.

[persephone]

1 hour ago, gillbear said:

Lol first thread I look at in years and it's just like old times

happens every so often ..isn't it grand ? 

[Loving my Oldies]

15 hours ago, RuralPug said:

How do other rescuers cope with comments about dogs up for adoption being too  pricey?

It has always been my habit to respond to such comments with an offer of a special deal - instead of an adoption fee, they can reimburse all the vet fees paid in respect of that dog! (99% of the time, those fees will always exceed my standard adoption fee of $350 for a fully vet worked small or medium dog). That usually shuts them up. 

I guess this is just a rant after I had to resort to my usual comment after a "shame she is so pricey" remark on a FB ad this morning. 

And while I am whinging, am I too strict for insisting on meeting the other dog(s) in a prospective adoptive household? 
I insist on a meet and greet on neutral ground that includes the other dog because if the foster and the other dog take an instant dislike to each other (which can happen) it is just hell for everyone and a waste of a trial period. But apparently I am being 'too difficult'. Sigh.

Gosh, I wish I’d thought of doing some “special deals” RuralPug     .  To be honest though, I don’t think I ever had anyone query the price - I don’t know about the rescuers for whom I fostered, though, but I can’t imagine any of them being charmed by someone telling them the dogs were pricey.  

 

I can’t imagine not meeting any other dogs, either.  And I always do a house check.  Last year,  I was in a bit of a situation when people were here meeting one of my fosters.  It all went very well, with my dog and their other recent rescue (same breed) getting along famously, so they were very keen to take him there and then and the rescuer was quite happy for that.  However, I wasn’t.  I knew my little foster was an escape artist and wanted to be as sure as a person possibly can be that the home he was going to was proof against his tricks.   Thank goodness, I did.  The first thing I saw when I went into their backyard was a spot where my little foster would have been through in a nano second.  I was proved correct to be so concerned.  Although the area was packed high with rocks and similar until permanent proofing could be installed, the next morning a lot of it had been pulled down, but not enough for the dog to escape.  

 

These dogs have lived with me and I am as much invested in their happiness and well being as I am for my own dogs.  If someone has a problem with that, then too bad.  

 

Keep being “too difficult”.  Your dogs are worth it.    

 

[sas]

$350.00 is a great adoption fee and that's what I list my rescues for but I have seen many rescues of popular sorts list dogs upwards of $500 and that is too expensive in my opinion because my belief is that a rescue should be more affordable that what someone can get the same/similar from a breeder on Gumtree for.  I understand the notion that if people will pay it why not, I guess, my personal goal is just different to that.

If someone finds $350.00 too much then I'd probably say that I was sorry that I wasn't able to assist them at this time and not enter into a conversation about it because they're not going to care if you break it down for them.  If a person thinks $350.00 is too much then their value of a dog in general needs to be questioned.

[Scrappi&Monty]

On 05/04/2018 at 2:32 PM, juice said:

$350 is nothing , however lately I have seen pups from $600 upwards on PR. I think that’s pushing it for a xbred. 

I always did home checks , no way would I let a dog go without checking any other dogs in the household.

 

Yeah I’ve seen young pups on there for $800 or so who have only have the regular vet work etc, and are simply more expensive because they are purebred or a high demand cross breed... yet dogs with heaps of vet work often only cost $350-$450... dunno

[tdierikx]

6 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

Yeah I’ve seen young pups on there for $800 or so who have only have the regular vet work etc, and are simply more expensive because they are purebred or a high demand cross breed... yet dogs with heaps of vet work often only cost $350-$450... dunno

I'm of the belief that if a rescue can actually make a little money back on a desirable pup/dog, then why not? Or is the general "rule" that all rescues must run in the red and not make anything above and beyond their costs per animal in their care? Seems a ridiculous business model, and one that is not exactly feasible, wouldn't you say?

 

T.

[KobiD]

12 hours ago, tdierikx said:

I'm of the belief that if a rescue can actually make a little money back on a desirable pup/dog, then why not? Or is the general "rule" that all rescues must run in the red and not make anything above and beyond their costs per animal in their care? Seems a ridiculous business model, and one that is not exactly feasible, wouldn't you say?

 

T.

It's a tough on to answer isn't it. I don't feel that a rescue should be making profit persay, but then you shouldn't really expect everyone who puts in the hard work running the show to do it at their own expense (of time and effort) either. Then you get into the old not for profit organisation business model where some people rake it in, while the business itself makes not money. It really comes down to the individual/businesses intent and ethics more than the dollars involved.

 

People will pay as little as they can, or as much as they can justify. That's just how people work. Once you realise what you get for your $350 it's not so bad. For our rescue that included initial worming, vaccinations, and spaying. It basically means free dog.. and if the owner can't afford that off the bat you really have to ask if they can afford to own an animal. I'd like to think I'm tight as a fishes in general, and really don't splurge on expensive doggy gifts.. but she still costs a significant amount to own and maintain.

[_PL_]

19 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

Yeah I’ve seen young pups on there for $800 or so who have only have the regular vet work etc, and are simply more expensive because they are purebred or a high demand cross breed... yet dogs with heaps of vet work often only cost $350-$450... dunno

We happily spend on our dogs, many of whom need more than the basics. Plus we have retired dogs who stay in permanent care so yes, our adoption fees are higher than $350 and that's OK imho.

If we get the occasional 'easy' one who hasn't cost equal to or over the adoption fee then that's just sheer luck. You can't rely %100 on donations coming in at the exact same time a vet bill arrives so having a dog who pays for themselves or god forbid maybe a bit extra then we can plough that back into the rescue. It's not like it goes into our pockets, it just means that e.g. we can take a dog who needs desex, vacc, dental, h/w test, full blood panel, meds, chest xray and mammary surgery and pay the bill on time.   

Edited May 2, 2018 by Powerlegs

[Two Best Dogs!]

Higher demand healthy dog being sold at a higher cost = more money available to help multiple  lower demand unhealthy dogs be brought up to health and adopted out. 

 

I might not like that some pure breeds get sold at prices upwards of $4k but I understand that it’s a combination of high demand and covering the associated costs of any health testing or difficulties. They are planning their dogs health and need the money for it. Why not rescues recoup too?

 

Imagine if one of the high demand healthy rescue dogs sold for $1k? Could help so many other dogs with that! Ones who need a bit of extra help. More reliable than hoping for extra donations. 

 

If someone don’t personally value the dogs at about that much it’s pretty easy to not buy them unless you are after one of the higher demands in which case... might have to compromise with one self. If not buying the dog and just frowning at the price maybe look inward and think am I frowning because I don’t value the dog that much? I might not value that dog but where is the extra money likely to go? Do I have any objections to where it goes or am I just wincing at the price tag? Do other people value the dog that much and thus are buying it?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Thistle the dog

[Scrappi&Monty]

On 02/05/2018 at 7:22 PM, tdierikx said:

I'm of the belief that if a rescue can actually make a little money back on a desirable pup/dog, then why not? Or is the general "rule" that all rescues must run in the red and not make anything above and beyond their costs per animal in their care? Seems a ridiculous business model, and one that is not exactly feasible, wouldn't you say?

 

T.

Yeah that’s what I figured it must be for, but sad that they can’t charge the adequate amount for the animals that need it (but then they’d never be adopted  ) 

I suppose a cute little pup will be much more likely to sell regardless of price, especially if pups from breeders cost thousands.