Puppy + Mum backyard breeder

[2girlwhippets]

Hello,

I'm new here and looking for some advice/suggestions on how to navigate the purchase I've put my $100 deposit on...it's a bit of a story and there's lots of conflicting information.

 

1. placed a wanted ad on gumtree for a pup

2. was offered a pup ($950)

3. told they have 3 dogs and it's too much for them, so they want to move on her 3-4yr old mum ($500)

4. visited the home to find 4 dogs     A: male   B: 10yr old female just had a litter   C: female mentioned above   D: 18mth old female (in the males enclosure)

5. took the mum out for a walk (don't think that happens much)

6. paid $100 deposit for pup and mum

7. have been told they are getting rid of the Mum because she fights with the 18mth female (they seemed friendly together when I saw them)

8. was told the mum had 5 pups and sat on 2 and they died

9. owner offered eagerly 3-4 times to put the dogs on petjet

10. negotiated $100 off for desexing of mum (tried for 100% then 50%)

11. finally got name of vet who is mobile and has only negative reviews online eg.unreachable, not providing medical history

 

My concerns:

1. will the vet documentation be 100% valid with regard to vaccinations, microchipping, health status and medical records?

2. will the dogs make it to petjet?

3. where do I stand legally?

 

Considering we were looking for a puppy, it now feels like the focus is on rescuing the mum so she doesn't keep having litters like the 10yr old.

[juice]

Oh dear they saw you coming .

byb trying to offload breeding stock that’s of no use . 

Do I think the dog is vaccinated etc , nope . Has she been bred too much and may have health issues waiting to rear their head with you , possibly . 

If you go ahead with this you maybe in for a lot of heartache . They are betting now you have see them you won’t back away , but might be the best thing .

You are better getting a pup from a reputable breeder , if you say what breed you want someone can recommend someone . 

 

[2girlwhippets]

Thank you Juice :-) 

Yes, the 10yr old has bred too much for sure.  

The registered breeders usually shift on the mum's around 3-4 too.  

Thought it was very strange to say the mum sat on 2 pups and killed them.  Does this happen?

The owners were totally cool with letting the mum out for a walk on the lead on ourselves.

Maybe try again and zip round to the vets?

[Tassie]

Honestly?   I'd cut my losses and start running ... and as juice advises, start looking for a reputable, ethical breeder of the breed you are interested in .. the Dogzonline Home page is a good starting point, as are breed clubs.  Visit some shows and talk to breeders and exhibitors (when they're not busy) .. see if you like what you see in the breed/s you're thinking of.  Think about what you primarily want the pup for  -- mainly pet, pet + performance .... etc.  You really want to start with a pup who has had the best possible start in life .. with thoughtful, caring breeders who spend massive amounts of time and money for the 8 weeks their pups are with them, and try their very hardest to find wonderful caring lifelong homes for their dogs.   And yes ... that can cost more, and yes, you might have to wait ... but it is worth it.

[juice]

If it’s a whippet you are after go in the breed section and ask for advice . Good breeders rehome older dogs desexed for well less than the $950 you put in your ad .  

 

[persephone]

  I would say RUN ..but think your heart is ruling yr head    Your head is making an attempt ..good for it, I say !!   ;) 
 

Think. 

You take /rescue these .
in the next little while ..they will be replaced. The female in male's yard is possibly there to be mated .
yes, bitches do sometimes 'sit on pups' ..BUT,rarely in a situation where dedicated and thoughtful breeders keep the bitch company, provide adequate  beds available to prevent this , and make every attempt to ensure all pups/dogs are at optimum health. Accidents do happen though.

All in all ... yes, you had a need..and a soft heart ..and they want money badly . 

You will get no pedigree
                     no proof of any tests for genetic testing done on parents/grandparents  as to genetic problems /diseases/temperament
                     maybe not even any health records..or TRUE proof of vaccinations!! How risky is that ?  heart worm testing ? When were they last wormed ? 

Have you read this ? Guide to buying a puppy
here's an excerpt for you ....and , I do know that dogs in a pound or dog rescue  do not have this backing ..however , most reputable organisations will  offer support  if & when there are problems . Will this person do this for you after you purchase these dogs ? Will you be able to phone them & ask advice? Return a dog if it doesn't work out? 

 

Necessities

If your breeder doesn’t do this then walk away…

• Breeder shows concern and regard to the health of dogs and puppies – either in health testing or in the studs used (e.g. choosing old studs that show they’re healthy, using DNA testing, using x-rays, and other relvant tests)
   
• Breeder shows concern and regard to the psychological well being of their dogs and puppies – either in providing enrichment on site, by frequently taking their dogs ‘out and about’, by using Dunbar’s methods of raising puppies (with toilet area, kongs, socialisation), and preferably a combination of these methods.
   
• The breeder has a clear purpose in their breeding program that goes beyond ‘breeding pet puppies’ – they may enter their dogs in dog shows, participate in agility or obedience with their dogs, or have dogs that compete in working dog trials
   
• The breeder’s dogs approach you in a friendly and sociable way. You are able to interact with and handle all dogs on the property. The mother should be available and should show exceptionable sociable behaviour.
   
• The breeder is willing to provide life-long support to you as a puppy buyer – including taking back the dog at any point things ‘don’t work out’
   
• The breeder happily shows you all the dogs in their care
   

[2girlwhippets]

Thank you Tassie :-)

I totally hear what you are saying and agree with the trust in breeders and condition of the dog.

We've talked to all the breeders listed on Dogzonline for whippets already.  Some aren't interested as we are out of their state and others were put off as we're after a blue girl.  Hence our direction to place an ad.  It comes down to timing also for us.  

 

Think I'll have a look around again.

 

[persephone]

Ok ..next step . 

You are marked as being in NSW . 
Not every breeder advertises on DOL (believe it or not ! ) 
perhaps if you give us an approximate location /timeframe ..and reason for absolutely wanting blue ( being no doubt aware of the health probs sometimes associated with the blue coat colour  ) ..someone may know someone who knows someone.....  oftentimes  the very best FIT  can be found by  some good communication ..and DOL breeders and associates are masters !!

[juice]

Are you looking to breed ? Is that why you have put breeders offside ? Nothing wrong with wanting a particular colour , but you may have worded It badly to sound like colour was all you were after . 

[2girlwhippets]

14 minutes ago, persephone said:

 

Thank you Persephone for your heartfelt words and link to the info.  I understand that by taking the Mum I'll only be saving her and not the cycle the breeder keeps creating :-(

 

Juice: No, not looking to breed at all.  Didn't intend to put anyone offside. I was very clear that we wanted a family dog only with good temperament and good with children...dog that has been socialised etc.  What we've learnt from visiting the pounds, is the skin cancer risk with white and pale skinned dogs (not so keen on lathering sunscreen on dogs). Whippets are thin coated and we'll be exercising them at the local dog beach...so no shady trees ....avoiding white or black colours (for the heat)...and hubby not that keen on brindle.  Pretty much leaves blue :-)

[juice]

Fair enough then , it’s just blue is the in colour , can have lots of health risks that I’d rather not touch with a barge pole . 

Sounds like you are trying to do the right thing here . 

You could try sending “ dogmad” a private message as she rescues Italian greyhounds but also gets to know if whipped in need too . 

[persephone]

Just now, 2girlwhippets said:

 I understand that by taking the Mum I'll only be saving her and not the cycle the breeder keeps creating :-(

damned if you do- damned if you don't ..it's a mess. Good for you on at least coming here to try & untangle some of it !! 

Just hang around ..there are whippet folks here..tho possibly away at present ..they may be able to answer more of your concerns . Sit with us for a few days ..or are you wanting to get it all done during holidays ? ....

[juice]

Agree , hang around , there are good whippet breeders on here who may well be away showing this weekend .

[2girlwhippets]

Oh wow Persephone!  That is such a generous offer!  I had no idea that the community was so connected like that and supportive.

We are Northern NSW and were considering JetPet or driving up from Melbourne with the mum and pup (I visited them when I was down there last week).

 

Reason for a blue: What we've learnt from visiting the pounds, is the skin cancer risk with white and pale skinned dogs (not so keen on lathering sunscreen on dogs). Whippets are thin coated and we'll be exercising them at the local dog beach...so no shady trees ....avoiding white or black colours (for the heat)...and hubby not that keen on brindle.  Pretty much leaves blue :-)

 

Timing wise, we were geared up anytime after Easter (due to work commitments) and preferably NSW school holidays coming up.  The children are keen to start training, enjoying playtime and cuddles.

 

We both work from home but have to travel at times.

[Dogsfevr]

What ashame you could have attended the 2 whippet shows just held over the weekend in NSW .A big weekend at the Royal,hound club,sighthounds club and whippet shows .

As for colour many will not be interested because there are plenty  more where colour isn’t a priority for pet homes and a wait just for colour can be longer than you think .

Colours just don’t appear .

 

As to this scenario you either want a healthy pup with a good history or you just want any dog which kinda makes colour only irrelevant 

[2girlwhippets]

17 minutes ago, persephone said:

damned if you do- damned if you don't ..it's a mess. Good for you on at least coming here to try & untangle some of it !! 

Just hang around ..there are whippet folks here..tho possibly away at present ..they may be able to answer more of your concerns . Sit with us for a few days ..or are you wanting to get it all done during holidays ? ....

Frustrating as it is and damned either way!

I'm happy to hang around and hope others jump in with some contacts to reach out to. this is a lovely community!

 

Feeling sad about the Mum though...she just needs some lovin' !!

[persephone]

Just now, 2girlwhippets said:

Feeling sad about the Mum though...she just needs some lovin' !!

  she'll find it , for sure ..just a shame she'll be replaced

[Tassie]

That all makes good  sense.   And sorry that you've not had good responses from breeders you've tried contacting.   Still think you could do better than these ones you've seen..  In northern NSW you could be looking in Queensland too .. there is a Whippet Club of Queensland .. and if you like the idea of rescue, both the NSW club and the Qld one have rescue links.  Hope one of the more knowledgeable DOLers can see this and make some suggestions.   And glad you have found DOL .. there are occasional spats, but on the whole this is a helpful and supportive family.

 

ETA  IN case you haven't discovered it, there is a Breeds Sub Forum, and I see there is a sight hound thread in there, and a thead called All things Whippet.   Might be worth a browse there.

Breed sub froums

Edited April 2, 2018 by Tassie
Link to sub forums

[Rebanne]

wipe the deposit off. Lesson learnt. Pounds are not the best place to learn about dogs and their needs. I don't know anyone who slathers sunscreen on their dogs purely because of their colour. Even dark dogs with minimal hair like smooth coats would need sunscreen on their tummies, snouts etc if what the pound said is true. I have white and brindle greyhounds, same coat as a whippet and they have never had sunscreen on them. If I did take them to the beach then maybe on the snouts and bellies but quite frankly I'd have them under the shade umbrella mainly. If you are taking kids with you then you surely would be taking some shade for them? If it's just for taking the dogs for a run then you are not going to be out for hours and in the summer time one hopes it will be in the early hours of the morning or the late evening. Exercising in the heat would be more of a worry then a bit of sun.

I suggest you look at the breeders websites here and also the state clubs. There is so much more to a whippet then putting sunscreen on and so much more to a brindle as well. I understand you might like or dislike a colour and I am happy to admit to having a personal preference but when there are kids involved what you really want is a dog that suits them, not a particular colour or sex. When I fostered for Greyhound Adoption I said send me only males as I would never keep a male and I was told, rightly, nicely, I would take what I was given because I had cats. The first 2 greyhounds I kept from them were both males! and I often think on what I would have missed out on if those 2 had not come into my life.

[2girlwhippets]

4 minutes ago, Tassie said:

 

Thank you one and all for your words of kindness, advice and views on perspectives I am happy to see.  I'll hang around and make contact with the QLD breeders and Clubs too.