Livestock guardians???

[Rascalmyshadow]

6 minutes ago, PossumCorner said:

But it's back to the toolbox or belts and braces - the more ways you have to keep them safe the better.  Traps would work for me because foxes around are confident and cheeky, some places they are suspicious and wary.  Some good traps are a bit dearer, $150-200.  Where (approx.). are you in Vic Rascal? - "Its a Trap" in Kyneton were great, they have closed the shopfront but Robyn still supplies by mail order, I think.  I just left her a voicemail so will let you know what the system is now after she calls.  (Highly recommend).  If you search online tonight look up itsatrap Kyneton.

 

Netting with large trees is tricky but do-able - as normal at around 6 ft high on posts, but work a netting inverted cone around the trunk without trauma to the tree.  An orchard near us nets quite large trees - foxes climb the fruit trees and can eat a crop of cherries or apricots.  

 

Oh cats and hot wires - same with your dogs and chooks, they'll generally only need the one hit to keep them off it, no harm done, just a helluva fright.  Some egg producers with free range paddocks use them, just one wire at normal fence top.  The chooks only try to fly over once and give the idea away.

Thanks I would really appreciate the information and il check out that site tonight, oh and yes I'm in Vic.

 

I'l also talk to my husband about the electric fencing, we would need to put it around the entire acre so il have to check out costs as well.

 

Il also see if there's a way to get netting over the trees, problem is they are right next to each other and on the fence line so we can't access them right around.

[PossumCorner]

1 hour ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

 ... appreciate the information and il check out that site tonight,  ...

Just spoke to Robyn, the business is now re-opened with a name change to broaden it but google itsatrap Kyneton finds the site with phone no and some details.  The big wire fox traps are dearer than the Chinesey ones, thought they were, something around $300.  And they have the humane soft-foot traps something around $55.  Open Wed to Fri only, normal bus hrs, and Saturday mornings.  (And on line they arrange delivery Australia-wide).  Only an hour from me which is handy.

 

On euthanasing a trapped fox, I'd be amazed if any vet would do it, best to check first.  All I've known of have refused.  How would they - it's not as if they can hold it for an injection even like a cranky cat.  The usual thing is a local farmer with a gun, someone with a bit of experience.  Could be something helpful on the backyard poultry forum, but I would not even mention it on any of the fb pages, it just incites the stupids to foam at the mouth and pass on tenth generation anecdotes.

[Kelpieboy]

I have 6 ( almost 7 , due to drop about a week ago) Alpacas used in 2 groups of 3 for sheep guards. Seriously , they are masterful against any 4 legged predator ( fox , cat  , feral dog etc) but I don't know how effective they would be against birds. Alpacas also seem to be quite a dab hand with snakes as well as a bonus. I also have a few possum traps set up to get the wily fox and they seem to work pretty well , relatively cheap as well. 

As for the crows , my suggestion would be to make friends with the local kookaburras as they don't seem to take too kindly to crows encroaching on their feeding patch.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Could the vets not euthanise a fox the same way they do a feral cat? They don't touch them except to jab them anywhere they can.

 

I don't know anyone at all locally so maybe trapping isn't an option.

 

About alpacas how much damage do they do to plants around them, do they eat anything and everything.

 

Oh we have quite a few kookaburras around but the crows aren't always here, they will appear randomly, could go weeks without seeing any.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Rascalmyshadow

[Selkie]

I know a cattle dog that is very effective against foxes and pigeons. The only downside is that she does eat eggs.

[asal]

18 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I know a cattle dog that is very effective against foxes and pigeons. The only downside is that she does eat eggs.

our misty kept the foxes well at bay bay for years, now she is a teenager have to keep them locked up now, the foxes know they can outrun her now. she also loved any eggs that they didnt lay in their nestboxes, but we didnt care most were in the nest boxes and figured the others were a cheap wage

 

my neighbor had of all things a large chihuahua and the foxes were terrified of her with good reason. she guarded their chooks till she was 18 n the crows never dared come near either

Edited March 27, 2018 by asal

[PossumCorner]

For sure ring and ask your vet, but I have never heard of one chancing it, wild strong animal, risk of injury.  For someone to shoot a trapped fox - ask at the local feed store, door-knock the nearest farm, everyone rural generally knows someone helpful, or the secretary of the nearest gun club, sporting shooters people.

 

Alpacas.  When I got my bottle-raising lambs, my vet said "Okay I'll look after them for you, make sure they get all the right needles, worm, lice, dock tails, castrate.  But you will rue the day you got pet sheep, and you will never have a garden again".  Well the vet was 100% accurate.  Alpacas are marginally worse, they tip-prune everything at a greater height, scratch themselves on young trees and break them, not much they don't wreck unless it's strongly established.  As do ponies, they are wrecking balls as well.  My garden is stuffed: the geese are also now banished because they dug up all the bulbs and ate them.  At least the alpacas didn't do that.  Oh you need to get a list of poison plants to see nothing toxic is available - I lost two alpacas because they ate some oleander leaves.

 

On the plus side, they are much more respectful of fences than sheep or horses or cattle, and very easy to keep fenced where you want them, not pushy or escape artists. 

[PossumCorner]

Also, Persephone is probably the one to ask (says she who does not know how to tag names) with probably more experience than the rest of us with fox management issues.

[persephone]

Thanks @PossumCorner... managing foxes ..not easy when it's freerange, and probably much greener pastures than where I live   
our house yard is an acre ..and in its heyday the fence was built of  6 ft netting ..then an additional  3straight wires  at an angle out - but that was to stop the turkeys we bred from flying IN  :P 

I do suggest some additions to the fence  for foxes ... a netting flap facing out , like this stops climbing 

and definitely a hot wire as  has been suggested !!  off set , and just a few cm off the cleared ground . safe as  ;) 

I have only bantams now ..feral cats are my nemesis  they are in a fully enclosed, Fort Knox Aviary . I just  do not need any more worry in my days . We have never had a crow take even a new hatched chick . Wedgetailed eagles have taken turkeys/guinea fowl ..and foxes took geese, yes . cats have taken ducks/chooks and guineas   I've gone off poultry keeping . 
Honestly . A maremma is a whole other set of worries   me? I have been typing & thinking ..& for banties , with overhead raptors a worry ..id build tunnels  for them  so they are enclosed and roaming at the same time ;) .....tunnels can me moved around
being lazy , I'd get plastic/wire mesh  of a strong  variety .. mould it into an ellipse or  similar shape ..tall enough  for banties to stand & flap, etc ... & as long as you can ..add some turns/elbows ..
some ideas here ? 
http://www.homedesigninspired.com/build-a-diy-chicken-tunnel-in-your-backyard/
 

[Rascalmyshadow]

2 hours ago, persephone said:

Thanks @PossumCorner... managing foxes ..not easy when it's freerange, and probably much greener pastures than where I live   
our house yard is an acre ..and in its heyday the fence was built of  6 ft netting ..then an additional  3straight wires  at an angle out - but that was to stop the turkeys we bred from flying IN  :P 

I do suggest some additions to the fence  for foxes ... a netting flap facing out , like this stops climbing 

and definitely a hot wire as  has been suggested !!  off set , and just a few cm off the cleared ground . safe as  ;) 

I have only bantams now ..feral cats are my nemesis  they are in a fully enclosed, Fort Knox Aviary . I just  do not need any more worry in my days . We have never had a crow take even a new hatched chick . Wedgetailed eagles have taken turkeys/guinea fowl ..and foxes took geese, yes . cats have taken ducks/chooks and guineas   I've gone off poultry keeping . 
Honestly . A maremma is a whole other set of worries   me? I have been typing & thinking ..& for banties , with overhead raptors a worry ..id build tunnels  for them  so they are enclosed and roaming at the same time ;) .....tunnels can me moved around
being lazy , I'd get plastic/wire mesh  of a strong  variety .. mould it into an ellipse or  similar shape ..tall enough  for banties to stand & flap, etc ... & as long as you can ..add some turns/elbows ..
some ideas here ? 
http://www.homedesigninspired.com/build-a-diy-chicken-tunnel-in-your-backyard/
 

With the netting flap does it matter how high it is, we have good fencing (not farm fencing) but it is all about 4.5ft tall. If the hot wires are a few cm off the ground will that stop them digging in? 

Also with the netting flap if my cats jump over I assume they won't be able to jump back?

 

Thanks for the good ideas with tunnels, at the moment the bantams have decided to stay right up near the house (not wander around with the big girls)where the crows don't seem to bother them, I think the dogs and cats are enough of a deterrent to keep them away while they're in this area.

Seems to be when they go down to the next yard or in the pen is where the crows will have a go.

Hopefully it stays that way and it's one less problem.

 

 

 

[persephone]

oh  ..ok ..if the fence is only 4.5 ft ..you might have another option which may also keep yr cats at home too .bonus!! 

http://yoursassyself.com/roll-bar-fence-diy-keep-your-pets-in-others-out/

 

maybe instead of electrics ... run a strand of new barbed wire along the bottom of the fence on outriggers ! It stings !  I do this on puppy pens/pig pens ..it only takes one or two  'ouches', and digging under  drops down the list of good stuff. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

That looks like a good option, il show it to my husband tonight , I like the idea to keep the cats in as well.

 

The strand of barbed wire would be internal would a fox just dig further to miss it?

[persephone]

3 minutes ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

The strand of barbed wire would be internal would a fox just dig further to miss it?

Ohpoo   I forgot . I do it to stop digging OUT . 

[W T]

17 hours ago, PossumCorner said:

On euthanasing a trapped fox, I'd be amazed if any vet would do it, best to check first.  All I've known of have refused.  How would they - it's not as if they can hold it for an injection even like a cranky cat.  The usual thing is a local farmer with a gun, someone with a bit of experience.  Could be something helpful on the backyard poultry forum, but I would not even mention it on any of the fb pages, it just incites the stupids to foam at the mouth and pass on tenth generation anecdotes.

re killing a trapped fox: they are a declared pest in Victoria, hence all you have to do - if you can't shoot it yourself - call the local ranger, by law they have to take care of it.

[PossumCorner]

WT - possibly in SA but and we are in Vic and whether it comes under local or federal legislation or falls down a crack like so many things, Councils in Vic do not do that, nor do their employed Rangers.  Nor do vets.  It is up to the catcher of the fox to arrange despatch.  If the local Council are helpful that is a plus but not a given.

 

[PossumCorner]

On fence height and material, I'm sure I've put this on Dol ages ago, but it does show a fox clambering up and over a 4ft run of cheap chicken wire (which they also eat holes to fit through if the spirit moves them).  So efficient climbers, 6 ft is nothing to them, the floppy wire tops deter well, depends on their degree of hunger/motivation.  The fence in the photo is also sailed over in a flying gallop without touching it if the dogs (or in this case me with camera) disturb them in a daylight hunt. 

 

 

 

A hot wire at the top of anything under 5 ft can be jumped clear of: or tumbled across no pain no gain.  As with barbed wire - the opposite fence to this has a barbed top-wire which they cope with.

 

On fox traps, Rascal are you far from your nearest Poultry Club?  Quite a few of them aside from arranging helpful talks and shows and auctions and such good stuff own fox traps which members can borrow on a roster system.  Someone close to us has our Club Trap at the moment, soon as they have good luck I'll be next.  And it follows that your Club will have somebody or know somebody who can help with both setting it and following up as necessary.  Sorry I should've mentioned that earlier, around $20 a year, great investment for chook owners, you don't have to be into showing or a chook fanatic to join. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by PossumCorner

[W T]

52 minutes ago, PossumCorner said:

WT - possibly in SA but and we are in Vic and whether it comes under local or federal legislation or falls down a crack like so many things, Councils in Vic do not do that, nor do their employed Rangers.  Nor do vets.  It is up to the catcher of the fox to arrange despatch.  If the local Council are helpful that is a plus but not a given.

 

Thanks for the heads-up - makes you wonder for what we pay taxes; nevertheless found this:  http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/pest-animals/fox-bounty

so with even a bounty for each fox it might be easier to find someone from a local shooting or hunting club? hm, maybe not for just $10; $ 10 for a fox, but $ 120 for a wild dog, looks like they don't rate the damage of a fox as very high.

[PossumCorner]

The boys down the road from me shot ten foxes over a few days recently, I don't think they bother about the bounty much, said it's not worth the fuel and time.  A few days ago I kicked one off a chook near the house, still daylight (just).  Missed making contact, it skitted off just in time and ran off.  A few minutes later it rushed back but I'd picked up the hen, fox jumped by me, shot under the house, came out, hopped up on the deck and ran along, came back off at the same spot and ran off again.  Hen survived, lost some feathers but no bite damage.

 

Next night there were two of them sussing out the alpaca laneway, we don't shoot because of stock all around, neighbours don't like it and I'm not that keen on shooting anyway.  Maybe as a last resort if the numbers build up this winter

.

[persephone]

Gee, PC ..that is a bit close for comfort

[persephone]

1 hour ago, W T said:

$ 10 for a fox, but $ 120 for a wild dog, looks like they don't rate the damage of a fox as very high.

think.

Vulpines are already well established . they are everywhere. they do NOT take down adult stock . Breeding is limited.Hunting is underway 
Canids on the other hand can breed huge litters twice a year ..grow large , works as packs  to raise litters .. the higher bounty, my guess is... tries to stop them getting too much of a foot hold  ?