Dryfood - An on going problem

[Stitch]

We have an ongoing love/hate relationship with dry dogfood here.   Many years, different dogs, different problems.

My most recent 'situation' is as follows:

As a 9 wk old puppy loose, smelly poos when being fed Canidae.  Changed to BARF (which I prefer) and also MFM Salmon & Sardine and poos improved but pup pooed a lot more than is usual and poos were soft.

Stopped feeding MFM and any dry dogfood and problem settled down.

Fast forward..... the dog is now 16 months old and BARF has never been a favourite of this dog.  It has been very difficult to get her to eat BARF and keep optimum weight on her but she is of acceptable weight.  This is a 7kg dog and she loses condition quickly.

I have tried mixing all sorts of things with the BARF to make it more appealing but it is never enough to get her to enjoy her food or eat all that is put in front of her....she craves dry dogfood.

So I caved and gave her MFM Grain Free 5 days ago and she LOVED it.  I mixed it with cooked mince and she has cleaned up everything that has been given to her since but what greeted me three days ago and every morning since is the return of smelly, soft watery poo.   She just can't hold on when she eats dry dogfood.

I don't know if it is the fibre or the oil they put into it or maybe it is something else?

She has been checked over by the vet who pronounced her very healthy.  The next thing would be blood tests but I and the vet are reluctant to do that because poos are normal if not fed dry dogfood.

She does get Eukanuba Healthy Extras Treats and they don't seem to cause any problems.  I feed her of a morning and give a raw chicken neck of an evening.

I have read the article about pH of processed foods v's BARF but I think that her pH would not be an issue in this case as this problem has occurred so quickly.

By rights dogs fed a dry dogfood diet should have slow process of poos through the body.

Anyone in our collective brains trust have any thoughts on this?

I would really appreciate any ideas as vets are very limited in their responses to these kind of issues.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Stitch

[JulesP]

When you say BARF do you mean those patties? 

 

If yes - make your own. 

 

Or try some other loaf. The VAN one. I use the Prime ones a fair bit. Prime do a 'BARF'  mix. 

 

I nearly barfed when I used the BARF patties but can dish up the Prime ones!! 

[Stitch]

I have used Leading Raw BARF for many years now.  All my other dogs love it....except this one!

I used to make my own using VAN but found the Leading Raw better all round.

I haven't tried Prime.  Is it better?

[JulesP]

Not sure I would say better but different maybe. My dog eats everything but did give me a 'are you sure?' look when I dished BARF patties up. Interestingly the same dog did not do well on Canidae or MFM! (or Blackhawk). 

[Stitch]

I have just bought a Prime Chicken & Brown Rice roll along with a VAN puppy roll.  Just noticed that the VAN says use within 2-3 day of opening.  That won't happen so I won't buy that one again.  It has been a long time since I bought any cooked dog food rolls.  I used to buy Pro Peak occasionally but this dog needs more than that I think.

The explanations associated with feeding dog food either dry or wet really baffles me.   You get the likes of VAN saying that dry dog food changes the pH of the gut to more alkaline and moves the food slower through the gut.  I feed dry dog food to this dog and it moves at a rapid rate through the gut....therefore there must be an intolerance there, one would think?

My experience is that dogs fed on BARF have smaller poos that smell of ammonia........ which would go along with the acidity theory??? 

[JulesP]

Unless it says don't freeze on the roll I would freeze some of it. I do this with the Prime roll. Chop into daily portions and then freeze some of it. Assuming you haven't got a frozen Prime roll. Not sure if the frozen Prime rolls are cooked. I get the single protein rolls normally. 

 

 

 

[Dogsfevr]

Buy a bag of Eukanuba if it already agrees .Salmon in dry gives my dog soft stools 

[Stitch]

Jules I will freeze it, thanks for the reminder.  Definitely not frozen when I bought it.

Dogsfevr, it is the Eukanuba Healthy Extra dog treats not the Eukanuba dog food that is OK and that might be because I only give 1 or 2 biscuits daily......but as you say maybe it will suit.  I am not a fan of Eukanuba dry dogfood but something to investigate in the future if the rolls don't work out.   Maybe it is something to do with the salmon/fish in the MFM???

[Papillon Kisses]

Have you only tried Canidae and MFM? A number of brands offer samples (check websites) or provide refunds if it doesn’t work out.

[mackiemad]

Mfm have another grain free variety - the duck and turkey I think it is. Maybe worth trying a grain free that isn't fish based? Holistic select also have some non fishy grain free varieties. The fish oils might just be too much for this dog's gut? 

[Stitch]

Mackiemad, yes it might be the fish however Canidae wasn't fish.  I wish I knew was it was about dry food that upsets her.  I am wondering if it is something to do with the oil that they put in it.  Flaxseed oil appears in a lot of dry food now and doesn't agree with some dogs, as does coconut oil.   I agree about the samples.  It would be much better if I could try a few different brands.

 

[BullBreedBoy]

On 04/03/2018 at 10:51 AM, Stitch said:

I have used Leading Raw BARF for many years now.  All my other dogs love it....except this one!

I used to make my own using VAN but found the Leading Raw better all round.

I haven't tried Prime.  Is it better?

I wouldn’t say that Prime BARF is better quality than leading raw, but it is single protein.  I would be looking at going down this path as an elimination diet to see if it’s a particular protein source that upsets his tummy.

 

One of the Stafford breeders here in Perth feeds all dogs and puppies exclusively on the Prime 100 SPD cooked rolls and all his dogs are in excellent health and condition.

[Mjosa]

Look at the website of Stay Loyal, full of info and they have  their own grain free kibble. Australianowned , based in Sydney.

[Stitch]

So I tried her on the VAN roll a little in the morning and again at approx. 5pm.  Even though she went outside to toilet after her dinner she still pooped inside before bed and again this morning.  She obviously couldn't hold on.   I am shaking my head here to understand what is causing this problem.  By rights feeding the VAN should not have caused the gut to be so irritated.   I am going to feed her some cooked mince and rice until it hopefully settles down again.  I am having to micromanage this without any idea of what the underlying cause is.

[PANDI-GIRL]

@Stitch   Hi,  you could  email  Robert,   at Stay Loyal  he has lots of good suggestions  for helping dogs get better, And  has helped many people with dog problems  

[BullBreedBoy]

2 hours ago, Stitch said:

So I tried her on the VAN roll a little in the morning and again at approx. 5pm.  Even though she went outside to toilet after her dinner she still pooped inside before bed and again this morning.  She obviously couldn't hold on.   I am shaking my head here to understand what is causing this problem.  By rights feeding the VAN should not have caused the gut to be so irritated.   I am going to feed her some cooked mince and rice until it hopefully settles down again.  I am having to micromanage this without any idea of what the underlying cause is.

It’s going to be very difficult to establish an underlying cause whilst you switch and change so much in the diet.

 

I suggest you make a decision and hold some consistency for at least a couple of weeks and then see is if the situation stabilises.  Noting the concerns around gastric acidity I would be looking at the Prime 100 cooked single protein diet rolls for a while.  Once you have stabilised the situation you can start considering alternatives and even variety.

 

At the moment, she has digestive upset of some description, and switching around between raw, cooked dry, and cooked wet of all different brands, and different protein sources and omega sources definitely makes it hard.  Make a decision and stick with it for a while!

[Stitch]

Yep BBB you're right.  It's not the path I wanted to be on but one that has morphed.  It all started with the introduction of the dry dogfood then I thought (wrongly) that I might be able to salvage the situation by giving the VAN roll.   As I said I am going back to a basic cooked mince & rice until it all settles down and then see what I can add.  She really doesn't like the BARF I have been feeding her in the past and has previously only eaten a very little of it.   She is also obviously not a dog that can take change.   Her father on the other hand is a very easy dog that can eat anything and never gets any problems.  So new plan is to wait until things settle down by feeding a bland diet of mince & rice, then try gradually adding small amounts of Prime to the mince with the hope that I can change her over to that.

[Stitch]

So I am wondering if this problem may be related to the flaxseed oil or meal that seems to be added to a LOT of dogfood now.

I have been feeding Prime 100 for about a week now the situation is not stabilizing.  I note that Prime has flaxseed in it.

She gets up at midnight and poos.  

[Papillon Kisses]

If this wasn’t a dog you bred or a rescue, what does the breeder feed their dogs? That may give an indication as to what may be best for your dog.

[sandgrubber]

On 3/4/2018 at 8:12 PM, Stitch said:

Jules I will freeze it, thanks for the reminder.  Definitely not frozen when I bought it.

Dogsfevr, it is the Eukanuba Healthy Extra dog treats not the Eukanuba dog food that is OK and that might be because I only give 1 or 2 biscuits daily......but as you say maybe it will suit.  I am not a fan of Eukanuba dry dogfood but something to investigate in the future if the rolls don't work out.   Maybe it is something to do with the salmon/fish in the MFM???

There's lots of opinion about dog food and little solid evidence.  What YOU prefer, and what you are not a fan of, are minor considerations compared to what your pup will eat.  Soft poo is inconvenient, but not serious.

Personally, I much prefer feeding dry food to feeding rolls, and my dogs are healthy as...