Doberman as first dog with kids

[freewill]

Hi,

I am new to dogs. Looking forward to have doberman  or German Sheperd (as per my google research ) for protection and family dogs, having small kids. I have found one Doberman around 3 years old mentioned as purebread without paper for 900.  

 

Being new may I hear your views  like if it good choice.  If have no paper is ok? Price is ok?

 

Thanks

[Dogsfevr]

I would be more concerned how this dog is with small children .

Older dogs can be great they can also be the wrong choice if they have not be exposed to small children .

If you want either of those breeds then you need to go and see the dog,ask lots of questions,take it on a trial if that scenario is available and be prepared for it being not any easier than bringing home a puppy 

[persephone]

Hi  
It seems you are seeking a dog which will look fierce and maybe protect the family ... are you ? or do you just like these dogs?   good to see you asking questions , too!

Why is the dog being sold ?
What experience has it with children? 
What training has it had?
is it good to walk  around other dogs /cats /people? 
is it nice & settled inside & housetrained ? 

if you are new to dogs , you need to be especially careful!! 

Have you read the pages on D O L which talk about different breeds? 

to be honest , if you have not owned a dog , and have young children , these breeds would NOT be ones I would suggest . They are large, strong , and need much mental exercise . They need 'jobs' to do , and they need to be understood 



 

[sandgrubber]

Dobies are lovely dogs, but there are some serious health problems in the breed.  If I remember correctly, life expectancy is 8 yrs or so, heart problems are common, as is cancer. 

https://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmTerveystilastot.aspx?R=143&Lang=en gives 7 yr 3 mo.

 

Apart from the question of 'ok with kids' I think $900 is high for a 3 yr old without pedigree, and presumably from parents who were not health tested.

[persephone]

...and if there is no pedigree , there is no guarantee the dog IS a 'pure bred ' dobermann anyhow

[freewill]

6 hours ago, persephone said:

It seems you are seeking a dog which will look fierce and maybe protect the family ... are you ?

Yes you are right.  I have also read that GSD, in particular are very intelligent and can be bit easy to handle. Open to advise what other breed should I look at

 

6 hours ago, persephone said:

Have you read the pages on D O L which talk about different breeds?

Yes, and It looks like I should go to breeder and get dog rather than buying from gumtree etc.

 

1 hour ago, persephone said:

and if there is no pedigree , there is no guarantee the dog IS a 'pure bred ' dobermann anyhow

Just trying to understand what difference it will make

 

 

Thanks

[Dogsfevr]

 I would suggest contacting Ikons Dobes in Victoria to discuss the breed ,if it’s the right fit and he has a young son .

The risk you have is this dog could be working lines which can be a whole different sort of management 

[persephone]

13 hours ago, freewill said:

15 hours ago, persephone said:

and if there is no pedigree , there is no guarantee the dog IS a 'pure bred ' dobermann anyhow

Just trying to understand what difference it will make

Ok ... IF there is no pedigree ... YOU have NO proof that the dog you are buying is the  pup resulting from the mating of two pure bred dobermann dogs.

 

A pedigree is , basically is a registered "family tree'"  - so a dog's family is known for many generations .

 

Any health or  other problems  can be also traced  
Anyone can advertise a dog as "purebred" ..but how would  you know that the father  wasn't a mutt from next door, that was NOT a dobermann , or  that was part dobermann? 

Edited February 19, 2018 by persephone

[karen15]

If being purebred isn't that important, lack of papers isn't an issue. It's an adult dog, so if you see it and like it you know what you're getting looks and temperament wise. Unlike with a pup. They can change into something unexpected if they're an undisclosed cross. For $900 though - that seems expensive.

[sandgrubber]

9 minutes ago, karen15 said:

If being purebred isn't that important, lack of papers isn't an issue. It's an adult dog, so if you see it and like it you know what you're getting looks and temperament wise. Unlike with a pup. They can change into something unexpected if they're an undisclosed cross. For $900 though - that seems expensive.

I disagree. Looks and temperament, maybe, but NOT health.  Dobies health problems are most likely to set in at 5+ years.  It's important to know what if any testing has been done, and to know the health history of the sire, dam and any other close relatives.  

[karen15]

Is it any different to getting a dog from the pound though? There is always a risk with animals and all the tests in the world can't guarantee an issue free life.

 

Maybe the OP could look at breed specific rescue if they want an older dog. But I would assume the same unpapered issue would apply.

[juice]

i had an older female from a breeder, papers don't always mean no health issues, mine came with heaps and was pts 3 years later at a young age .

I would say its a bit pricey personally, perhaps look on the breeders page here and approach breeders whose dogs you like the look of and see if they have any mature dogs looking for homes, often its just the cost of desexing you have to cover, unless they are a pricey trendy breed and then they still want shed loads for them, but dobes aren't.

I would say both breeds are not for the novice, dobes can be a bit neurotic, not a fan, and GSD's you need to do alot of resaerch to get a healthy one, and they need a job to do or develop bad traits.

[sandgrubber]

3 hours ago, karen15 said:

Is it any different to getting a dog from the pound though? There is always a risk with animals and all the tests in the world can't guarantee an issue free life.

 

Maybe the OP could look at breed specific rescue if they want an older dog. But I would assume the same unpapered issue would apply.

Guarantee, no.

Improve the odds, most certainly.

Not smoking doesn't guarantee you will be cancer free, either.

 

The one advantage I could see to a non-pedigree Dobe, is perhaps it is a cross breed, and thus less subject to the serious lack of genetic diversity in Doberman populations. 

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/dog/GeneticDiversityInDoberman.php

and thus less susceptible to the breed's health problems. 

Note in looking for a breeder, particularly with Dobes, steer clear of anyone that practices line breeding.

[DesertDobes]

@freewill My two dobies are fantastic with kids, see kids as ball dispensing slaves!! But they were raised with kids and I very carefully supervised all interactions when my son and dogs were young and with any visiting kids to make sure no one (including my dogs) got hurt or scared. 

 

Just want to point out - no breed of dog is guaranteed to tolerate children, and all dogs should be supervised around small kids. 

 

Case in point, one of my close relatives has a toddler who is very very rough with the family dogs, climbs on them, scruffs them. Their dogs are putting up with it (for now) but the problem is the child therefore has no concept of not doing the same thing to other dogs who wouldn't take it so well. 

 

As far as Dobermann health, I have a dog who is seven and a half and has a mouth tumor, but his sister, my other dog, is in perfect health and mother is 12 years and in perfect health, father just passed away recently at the age of 13 , other siblings have no major health issues, so I don't think of them as an unhealthy breed and you could certainly expect a dobe to live into their teens these days. They can be over-represented in veterinary literature, but remember it was a very popular breed in the states where a lot of the literature comes from and unscrupulous breeding certainly occurred to keep up with public demand. Among the dobermanns I know, there are few health problems, and genetic testing for Von Willebrands and Dilated Cardiomyopathy is standard among registered breeders. 

 

I would most certainly not pay $900 for a older dobe with no papers!  Put that money towards a well bred and healthy puppy (expect to pay ~ 1500- 2000) or get a rescue dobe which are often advertised on dobermann club websites- and either way supervise your kids with any dog. 

 

I attached a photo of my beautiful boys at the beach