Getting papers for adopted dog

[Judy and Kev]

Help please.

We adopted an English Springer Spaniel 1 1/2 years ago. She is a full ( and BEAUTIFUL)bitch. 

 We already have 2 others ESS's. Our oldest boy is still a full male (almost 14), and although we had no intial intention of breeding them, now that he is near his final earth life, we were THINKING of using AI, just once for maybe one litter, and have spoken to our Vets re this.

I wasn't able to get his papers when I took him, as the breeder blew himself up in an accident, hence I was never able to get them.

Our new girl's original owners eventually sent her papers for me to sign, but they got lost.

I just want to be able to have their papers, for any one who takes a puppy...IF the AI is successful.

How do I go about finding our Springers papers?

 

[alpha bet]

I suspect it would be Nigh on Impossible....

 

You need the person shown on the ANKC as owner of the bitch to apply for new papers.... then

 

You need a trail of paperwork for the breeder of the boy... which is 14 years ago.... and if the registration wasn't completed by the breeder then you no hope...

 

Your best bet is to get the papers for your girl and then look at perhaps breeding her to another dog...

 

[Judy and Kev]

Thank you

 

I thought it would be impossible to get his papers.

 

Never had intentions of breeding, then the thought of him going, and maybe we could have little one's of him/her is becoming more irrestistable!!!

 

He is such a beautiful boy, and she is such a beautiful girl and they love each other.

 

We only intend one litter, for this reason only really, and then she will be de sexed. 

 

I will try to chase her papers up, but am not sure where I find them on the ANKC web site...had a good look but couldn't see a link.

 

Never done this before, (puppies) apart from a cross breed girl I had as a child and my son's dog.

 

I am looking everything up so we can do this well though :D

[Tassie]

A thought for you.   Bear in mind that as an older dog, unless you've already had his sperm tested (probably by a repro specialist vet) you should probably get his sperm tested first.   There's every chance that live healthy puppies would not result, if the quality of the sperm had deteriorated significantly.

[Mjosa]

Are you a member of DogsVic?

If not that would be further expense for you so as you have the right to register the litter as you need to be a member, you would also have to register a Prefix which in most states you have to sit for an exam so as they can know what you know about the breed conformation wise, also wonder if you were able to get the papers of both dogs would thy be compatible so much to think about, it is not just a matter of putting two dogs together. 

[Rebanne]

what health tests are needed for Springers? Are you prepared to do them? Are you prepared to lose the bitch? Pay for a c-section on a public holiday? Can you take time off work to raise the litter? You would need to collect semen now and get it frozen and that's if the dog is still fertile and if the semen is good enough to freeze. So many things can go wrong. Why not see if there are any relatives of your boy that have been bred from and see if you can track down a puppy with similar traits to your old dog.

[Dogsfevr]

Yes there is some very important health testing that any moral person should do before breeding  Springers .

Also keep in mind not every dog should be breed ,there is more to bringing puppies into the world and those puppies deserve to be bred from health tested parents to minimize issues or have faults that will be magnified with this breeding plus you have no idea if your mating close siblings without papers .

Also parents do not always reproduce themselves so not a reason to just have a possible litter .

 

All these things your vet should have told you anyway plus getting the sperm tested ,an expensive exercise 
 

Hip scoring
 Annual eye certificates by an Opthamologist
 DNA tests for:
(a) Cord 1 PRA;
(b) Fucosidosis;
Tests that should be done

 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Dogsfevr

[RuralPug]

You have a whole lot of wonderful advice. Breeding is not for the faint hearted, it is best to have an experienced mentor from your own or a similar breed so that you avoid unknowingly bringing puppies with health issues or shortened lives into the world.

It is one thing to have a happy healthy dog and a happy healthy bitch, but unless you know all about their siblings and their parents siblings and their grandparents etc.etc. you can never be sure what the genetic dice can produce. There are some ancestors that should never be allowed to predominate by being on both sides as it will lead to problems, which is where the knowledge of your mentor is invaluable.

Before considering breeding either dog or bitch, you have to be aware of all the health problems that the breed is prone to and have both potential parents tested for their own tendencies to these conditions. In a few cases, you can have DNA tests done to see if a dog or bitch are carriers of a condition, but mostly you have to have them tested and assessed by experts.

Also, finding the parents' registered pedigree certificates does not mean that you will be able to pedigree the puppies. You must be an ANKC registered breeder to do that which means (as you live in Victoria) that you have to join DogsVic and be a member for at least twelve months before undertaking the breeder's exam and, if successful, registering a prefix - all of which has to be done before you mate the two.

[Papillon Kisses]

The two dogs would need to have mains papers too, right, in order for offspring to be recognised by ANKC? They may have been put on the limited register?

[Dogsfevr]

I think the OP just wants a copy of each parent to hand to the owners to say there full Springers 

[Airedaler]

17 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

I think the OP just wants a copy of each parent to hand to the owners to say there full Springers 

That may well be but the OP still needs to do relevant testing for the breed and be prepared to stand by the pups if there is an issue in the future if they want to be ethical. 

Personally I don't think that having a litter to have " little ones of him/her" is a reason to have a litter. The OP says the bitch is BEAUTIFUL - does the OP have the qualifications to assess the bitch for suitability of breeding or is he/she talking from a pet prospective?

[twodoggies2001]

1 hour ago, Airedaler said:

That may well be but the OP still needs to do relevant testing for the breed and be prepared to stand by the pups if there is an issue in the future if they want to be ethical. 

Personally I don't think that having a litter to have " little ones of him/her" is a reason to have a litter. The OP says the bitch is BEAUTIFUL - does the OP have the qualifications to assess the bitch for suitability of breeding or is he/she talking from a pet prospective?

The OP also says the pair are in love.  I would imagine that any bitch on heat will  lead to the pair being in love.  Not trying to be nit pickcing but fact of life.

[persephone]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:49 PM, Judy and Kev said:

He is such a beautiful boy, and she is such a beautiful girl and they love each other.

..I do suspect they love each other, aside from periods of oestrus   they are housemates and have been together  for 18 mths  , so why not ? Smoke ADORES his daddy, Don ..and it  certainly has nothing to do with seasons .

[Judy and Kev]

WE have thought about all these things and have spoken to our vets. The dog is to be tested, and so is the bitch. We have no intention of being full on breeders, just that we love the Springer breed, for who they are, not as show dogs or breeding dogs. They are just beautiful dogs, and I have many breeder friends world wide, as well as many friends who just love their Springers as we do. We have even travelled to meet them and their dogs. If the AS is successful, then we prefer the pups go for only pets anyway, for people to enjoy, not to use as breeders or for showing. I have no problems with breeders, if done right and well, and the animals are cared for, respected and loved, nor for showing for the same reasons, but Just not interested personally. Many of my friends are breeders as I said, and some show and others do agility etc etc. That's their thing, and I KNOW they ADORE their dogs. I have brought up litters before, and do know and understand the time and effort involved, and both my partner and I only work casual and part time hours. On the LOVE thing; they really do....24/7, on heat or not :D

 

[Judy and Kev]

Persephone....LOVE that quote! SO very true sadly. I do hear our animals, and many others :D xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Dogsfevr]

You do realise show breeders main priority is pet homes too,your litter is no more special in that sense .

So when you say tested you mean ,hips/elbows and PRA .? yout post a tad confusing especially as you say you have lots of breeder friends who you could have easily asked this question too .

You are a breeder by having a litter and bound by all the same pros/ cons a registered breeder is so if you breed health issues your still just as liable.

 

[Rebanne]

In other words you are just going to be another BYB.

[Roova]

if you do indeed love the breed, I would hope after health testing you also have someone very knowledgeable in the breed go over both your dogs. 

 

A nice nature is one thing but the structure of the dog and how well they represent the breed is another. You don't want to be a contributor to the look and standard of the ESS going downhill. 

 

It's important to know if either or both have a particular fault as the other may not be a good match. To be responsible you need to do more then simply have a male and female.

 

If the above works out favourably maybe join the Puppy Culture Facebook page? It's for dedicated breeders who provide early mental stimulation at each stage of a puppy's growth, to ensure they grow up to be wonderful pets.  As I'm sure you're aware a great pet is more about how the dog is raised than who the parents were. Good luck.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Roova

[Maddy]

6 hours ago, Rebanne said:

In other words you are just going to be another BYB.

To be fair, in this particular case, the OP didn't actually want input into that decision. she'd already decided to backyard breed her dogs. She just needs papers so that she can ask more money for them. You know, because "parents have papers". 

 

OP, if you're so good at listening to animals, maybe take a listen at your nearest pound. You hear that terrified screeching? That's a dog being dragged into the prep room for euthanasia. His breeders probably also had some justification for why it was okay for them to breed their "special" dogs, too. If you're not doing anything to improve the breed, you're just making puppies to sell    

[Tassie]

Without the papers for either of the dog or bitch, it's even more vital to get thorough health testing done on the dogs you are proposing to breed, otherwise, you cannot be said to have done everything to prevent possible future health problems in puppies, since you don't know the identity or the health status of the lines behind your adults.  Hip and elbow scoring x rays usually requires a GA.  Obviously we cannot stop you if you are determined to go ahead .. but please do not expect much approval.