Going after chickens

[DogsAndTheMob]

On 20/01/2018 at 12:03 PM, talking dog said:

So how does he/she makes use of the longline for changing behaviour (dog not running off) at the end without applying any stimuli via the longline (and the stimuli would be force = aversives)?

I don’t know how he/she uses the longline, but I use the longline as a control, not as an aversive, by attaching it to a harness and applying gentle pressure as the dog moves away from me. I can control the dog’s pace to teach the command “steady”, and I intermittently call the dog back to me (and food rewards), without applying pressure on the long-line. Off-lead recalls from free-running are practised in a smaller area (up to a two acre paddock).

 

i am now at the stage with my 14 month old Brittany where I can let her run free in larger acreages and call her off a rabbit warren or away from the trail of a rabbit. I would not attempt to call her back from chasing a rabbit in full flight, at least at this stage in her training. (Note: I try to avoid this by leashing her if there are rabbits out, but on rare occasions a rabbit has startled from under-foot.) I can also keep her within the zone of greatest control by using the command “steady”, when I don’t want her to free run.

 

Here is an excellent article written by a professional gundog trainer and hunter. He doesn’t talk about the quadrants - his approach is more experienced-based than theoretical, I think, but his training methods are not aversive. Instead, they are positive and focused on developing a hunter-and-dog team.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thebrittanyforum/recall-t3699.html

Edited January 24, 2018 by DogsAndTheMob

[DogsAndTheMob]

Incidentally, I trained for and competed in herding with my last border collie; he attained his Herding Started A and Herding Started B titles with no disqualifications and was two points off high-in-trial in his first Herding Started B competition. I lost him to snake-bite when I was training him for the higher levels of competition.

 

Based on my experience and observations, if you can get close enough during Herding training to apply aversives, then either you’re a very, VERY fast runner or your dog does not have much natural balance. (For people who are not Herding competitors, balance refers to the sheepdog’s instinct to place himself on the opposite side off the stock from the handler. This instinct, combined with the instinct to stop the movement of the stock, determines the talented sheepdog’s position - usually well away from the handler.) Also, I’ve never heard farmers refer to nipping sheep as a good thing; a strong sheepdog uses eye to stop the sheep.

 

l’ve also never seen a farmer use pool noodles in training. Australian farmers usually start their youngsters on a large mob, steadied by an older dog. Faced with a large, slow moving mob, sheepdog pups are less likely to become over excited.

 

I don’t think every talented sheepdog is well-suited to three sheep competition. My current border collie is talented; when he was thee months old, I took him out while my older border collie and I brought in the goats. I lost my grip on him  and he raced out to place himself at the head of the mob, stopping them in their tracks. When Herding instructors saw him working, they were impressed by his ability. But he lacks a natural bubble - the instinct to stay wide from livestock. Although he would be a good dog for working with a large mob, he is not calm enough for three-sheep work. A harsh trainer might be able to suppress his instincts enough to force him into a calmer style of work, but that’s not the sort of trainer I want to be.

Edited January 24, 2018 by DogsAndTheMob

[Tassie]

3 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

...

 

I don’t think every talented sheepdog is well-suited to three sheep competition. My current border collie is talented; when he was thee months old, I took him out while my older border collie and I brought in the goats. I lost my grip on him  and he raced out to place himself at the head of the mob, stopping them in their tracks. When Herding instructors saw him working, they were impressed by his ability. But he lacks a natural bubble - the instinct to stay wide from livestock. Although he would be a good dog for working with a large mob, he is not calm enough for three-sheep work. A harsh trainer might be able to suppress his instincts enough to force him into a calmer style of work, but that’s not the sort of trainer I want to be.

That describes my old agility girl.  We had the opportunity to learn to work sheep on a farm when she was about 2 or 3.   A very patient trainer, some well dogged sheep, and lots of walking round balancing, and she learnt to become a "handy little farm dog", able to do chores reasonably efficiently (though not up to the standard of the experts), and pretty useful in the yards.  But she would never have made a 3 sheep trial dog .. definitely lacked a natural bubble, bless her.

[JacAbik9]

It depends on whether you want the inhibition to be contingent on your presence or not. You can condition a dog to get more fun out of interacting with you, using aversive-free methods, assuming the act of chasing is less rewarding than whatever you're offering. Susan Garrett's course is a great way to learn more about increasing the dog's value in you to ensure success. 

 

However, if you want to stop the chasing when you're not present, the only reliable and realistic way to create permanent behaviour change is through e-collar training. It still requires management, but far less effort and long term commitment. As anti-force people say, it is a 'quick fix', in that it quickly fixes a problem, permanently. The dog learns that chicken chasing = bad. It will probably temporarily cause some negative associations with the chickens themselves, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Otherwise, you can just use an angry rooster to do the job for you 

 

I have a dog in NSW, where e-collars are illegal, that has been habituated to the presence of chickens with long-term exposure. She's a chicken killing husky, that can now roam with chickens off-leash and unsupervised. But that took 2 years, and was a happy accident that we didn't intentionally try to make happen.

[PossumCorner]

I hope the OP wasn't scared off by the reality of the complexities and time inputs needed for dog training.  I also hope the OP didn't resort to fb poultry groups for advice: today's gems there on the subject applaud the benefits of "a good flogging" and of "swapping the dog for a pot-plant".   

[Boronia]

When I first got Saffy she was keen on chook-killin', unfortunately for her I had a Pekin bantam with chicks who got stuck into her, chased her up the steps and grabbed her bum, Saffy got such a fright that she lost her footing and fell 1/2 metre through the steps onto the plants below. She ignored the chooks after that.

Bantam mum gathered up her chickens and continued looking for bugs.

So, have a stroppy hen and chicks as a deterrent

[persephone]

water-cannons ..from a sniper point of view can work wonders, too ;)