kanesol Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Hi all, First post, so forgive me if I have posted in the wrong section or have somehow been inappropriate. I am curious as to any insights the community would have about these breeds. I am restricted to a breed that my wife is familiar with which has left me with Japanese breeds (heritage & experience), abet the smaller/medium breeds. No Aikita(hers) for example or mame shiba(mine). We are looking for a breed that will fit in with our lifestyle. What I mean by that is a breed that would be engaged by going on day hikes on weekends (usually to a new area, nearly every weekend), daily walks and is happy to socialize at rock climbing clubs/dog parks etc and is friendly to children with the appropriate training if necessary (adults too but what child can resist wanting to pat a cute dog? Hence my concern for children. I have none myself). The dog will also have a decent sized yard and a lot of contact time during the week (we both work but between us we work from home nearly the whole week) I have grown up around and owned various breeds in regional Queensland, most recently a Fox Terrier that doubled as a companion/rat & snake catcher. The latter seemed more his interest than mine. However my wife has not owned a dog previously though she she is very comfortable, and the dogs with her, when visiting family and friends that own dogs (Jack Russell, Ridgeback, Staffie). Leading on from this and due to my overseas living experiences I feel that a Shikoku Inu is the best fit for our family lifestyle despite the wait and challenge importing the breed. I have looked at more obvious breeds such as the Shiba but felt that the general consensus on the breed didn't fit in with our lifestyle. They seemed to be less inclined to the adventurist lifestyle that we into and are more adapted to a singular household life (some describe as the perfect dog-cat). As an aside, we are more than happy travelling over to Japan and spending any amount of time required to ensure that whatever the breed or individual that we decide upon and/or decides upon us is able to make the transition with the least amount of trauma (I do need a holiday!). I am hoping to hear from the community on this breed and perhaps others that they feel are appropriate even if they are not Japanese breeds but fulfill the requirements (Looks like a Spitz etc). From my research, it doesn't seem like the Shikoku Inu has any presence in Australia. It really looks like a shame as they are a wonderful looking breed in both temperament and appearance. One final point that I would like to make is that I would like to support ethical breeders so any pointers on ensuring that is appreciated. Thanks in advance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) Well done for asking questions and starting top research an appropriate breed. So reading your post you are actually looking for Spitz type breeds of Asian origin? I'm not sure if you realise that there is an individual small breed called a Japanese Spitz? These are excellent small companion dogs and, unlike most Spitz breeds, they are responsive to training. Most other Spitz breeds are stubborn and are rarely safe with unknown dogs, although can be trained with determined effort. They are not generally ideal dogs as hiking companions unless leashed at all times as they tend to wander off and recall can be very difficult to train in these breeds. The Japanese Spitz is very different breed to the high drive Shikoku - which according to this breed website is definitely a only breed for a very very dedicated owner who is prepared to have their life revolve around the dog. They are not available in Australia. Similar breeds available here would be the Akita and the Chow Chow. You should also consider the Alaskan Malamute, the Siberian Husky, the Norwegian Buhund and the Shiba Inu. Some of the less challenging Spitz breeds (still stubborn, but usually dog and child friendly and slightly less demanding) are the Samoyed, the Finnish Spitz and the Keeshond. Your criteria as described below would best suit the Keeshond, the Samoyed and the Finnish Spitz in that order, in my opinion, if restricted to Spitz type breeds. However there are quite a few non-Spitz type breeds that would fit the criteria even better! Quote What I mean by that is a breed that would be engaged by going on day hikes on weekends (usually to a new area, nearly every weekend), daily walks and is happy to socialize at rock climbing clubs/dog parks etc and is friendly to children with the appropriate training if necessary (adults too but what child can resist wanting to pat a cute dog? Hence my concern for children. I have none myself). The dog will also have a decent sized yard and a lot of contact time during the week (we both work but between us we work from home nearly the whole week) We have owners of many of these breeds on the forum and hopefully they will chime in with their experiences! Edited January 4, 2018 by RuralPug add links 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 My Finnish Spitz cross, Danny, died last year at the age of 17 and a half. In his youth, he would have been ideal for you . I have also rescued, fostered and rehomed a couple of German Sptiz and another Spitz cross who always made me think that somewhere in his heritage was Shiba Inu. The latter and one of the German Spitz were two of the nicest dogs I have ever known: happy, lively, good natured, shared the house with several other dogs, loved their walks, etc etc. A family across the road from me has a Malamute cross who must be one of the most laid back easy going dogs ever. Mind you, she has had a terrific life with them, always out and about, or just strolling around the neighbourhood as the little boy was being walked. If the Spitz breed appeals, don’t limit yourself to one country. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 5:51 AM, RuralPug said: Most other Spitz breeds are stubborn and are rarely safe with unknown dogs, although can be trained with determined effort. They are not generally ideal dogs as hiking companions unless leashed at all times as they tend to wander off and recall can be very difficult to train in these breeds. I don't really agree with this - most Finnish Lapphunds get on very well with other dogs and many go off lead with their owners. While recall may be harder to train than with a BC or similar it is certainly not very difficult. Many Lappies compete in dog sports which require a high level of training. While a Lappie isn't a Japanese breed they are a very nice medium size Spitz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 6:21 AM, RuralPug said: Most other Spitz breeds are stubborn and are rarely safe with unknown dogs, although can be trained with determined effort. They are not generally ideal dogs as hiking companions unless leashed at all times as they tend to wander off and recall can be very difficult to train in these breeds. This is a very generalised and overstatement, I feel RP, and not the sort of advice I like to see given to a prospective dog owner. “Rarely safe with unknown dogs” is completely out of my experience, admittedly many years ago, of walking pound dogs and, more recently, of having rescued and fostered them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Quote Quote . It really looks like a shame as they are a wonderful looking breed in both temperament and appearance. Don't know what you have been reading but nope! Shikoku are a bit feral and a whole lot of Spitz. They look beautiful, I know! I would import one if I had the money, lol. But they take primitive a bit too far. I have heard there are breeders overseas trying to work on that and make them better family pets but they are hard work. Quote We are looking for a breed that will fit in with our lifestyle. What I mean by that is a breed that would be engaged by going on day hikes on weekends (usually to a new area, nearly every weekend), daily walks and is happy to socialize at rock climbing clubs/dog parks etc and is friendly to children with the appropriate training if necessary (adults too but what child can resist wanting to pat a cute dog? Hence my concern for children. I have none myself). I had shibas. Trust me, those beasts are like energiser bunnies! They can go all day. But while they are happy on hikes ect, they need to be kept on lead (especially in new areas!) otherwise they will bugger off. They will socialize if they feel like it, depending on individual dog , it's mood and what ever planet is in alignment, ect. RuralPug is correct in one point. Spitz breeds can stubborn (and have poor recall!) and can be dog aggressive. Not all of them, yes but they are common traits in the breeds. One of my boys was a social butterfly, loved everyone but hated most other dogs, the other would ignore you and snob everyone and every dog. Both were fine with kids, by the way. Shibas are nuts, but a whole heap more domesticated and manageable than a shikoku. If you like the look, get a sesame shiba. They have a similar colour to a shikoku but at this stage make far better pets. Quote They seemed to be less inclined to the adventurist lifestyle that we into and are more adapted to a singular household life (some describe as the perfect dog-cat). What do you mean by singular household? I had two shibas, two cats and myself and my partner. I don't have kids but my boys met kids in their outings (and yes, kids just run up and grab!)and my two handled interactions fine. They had far more issues with unleashed dogs running up to them >:( Edited January 6, 2018 by cannibalgoldfish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Someone else mentioned above but for whatever reason, the Norwegian Buhund was the first that sprang to mind too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Other breeds you might want to look at are Eurasier Norwegian Elkhound Swedish Valhund 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Do they even have Norwegian Buhund in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, cannibalgoldfish said: Do they even have Norwegian Buhund in Australia? There are 2 breeders listed on DOL, both in SA, one listed as having a litter planned for 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) On 06/01/2018 at 12:14 PM, Dame Danny's Darling said: This is a very generalised and overstatement, I feel RP, and not the sort of advice I like to see given to a prospective dog owner. “Rarely safe with unknown dogs” is completely out of my experience, admittedly many years ago, of walking pound dogs and, more recently, of having rescued and fostered them. Fair enough comment but how many of those pound dogs were pure Spitzes? Each of us can only comment of our own experience, mine is with breeders and pet owners both, and I have to say that most Spitz breed dogs that I have met or discussed with owners are intolerant of some other dogs, (especially dogs without pricked ears for some reason). Of course there are individual exceptions as with any breed characterisation. The breed exceptions that I am familiar with are Japanese Spitz, Keeshond, Samoyed and Finnish Spitz. I've never met a Buhund owner, so I have (possibly unfairly) lumped them in with the other Spitzes. Sorry i didn't even think of the Lapphund! I don't foster Spitzes myself, though I have exercised and assessed them and of course groomed many and trained a few. Edited January 7, 2018 by RuralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It's more common than not so I'd rather a new owner be prepared and ready to take steps to manage it if it became a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanesol Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Hi all, Thanks for all the info. Definitely will be rethinking and having a look & think about the suggestions. Really appreciate the details and thought that went into it. Thanks again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuki&Pickles Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I have read this post with Interest - as a Shikoku is a breed of dog I am interested in keeping in the future. I have had 4 shiba inus - currently have 2. They are both off lead dogs - but only when I go to the beach and am confident that they will come back - I will never let them off lead at a new place until they know the route we will take - definitely not off lead in bush - as they will take off after Kangaroos - I once lost my last Shiba for over 24 hours in bushland cos he took off as I was tying him to a post cos he saw Kangaroos. Shiba's have a reputation to be hard to train due to their dominant and stubborn nature - but they are also HIGHLY food driven - so are actually very very easy to train - especially if you establish yourself as their boss. If you don't train them - they will be a nightmare - cos they are very very smart and will just ignore you if they don't want to do what you want them to do. They are both people and other dog friendly - all four of my shiba's have been this way - very well socialised, but on the beach - they will just do their thing and walk past people and dogs, unless in a particularly playful mood. I find much of the advice about Shibas in books or on sites too be generalised and made by people that have clearly never owned one. While they may seem standoffish initially - once they know you are a friend - by way of pats - they will sit on your feet demanding more pats. But they are also not needy like some dogs that want your attention all the time - they will happily amuse themselves or sleep. They are also super happy when I take them hiking - they love it, and even when we go for hours - when I get home - they still run around like crazy chasing their toys for 5-10mins - they are a very high energy dog for many many years. Yuki is 9 now, but she still loves hiking - just have to be a bit careful of her joints and large stairs now. Definitely agree with the comment to get a Seasame Shiba - I think you will be very happy with your decision! BTW - does anyone know if anyone has plans to bring Shikoku's into Australia?? They seem to be readily available in US/Canada - from Instagram.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Quote they are also HIGHLY food driven Bwa ha ha ha.... Not mine. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) As a total sucker for grown-up spitz breeds of which several originated in Japan, I appreciate the appeal. However, I would not get one of these breeds for a suburban home, and doubly not if my lifestyle involved a lot of being out and about in public with the dog. Reason why is that many of these dogs are reserved. They are not unfriendly exactly, but they don't want to be friends with everyone, and out and about in suburbia, that is really hard to manage. I know, because I have two dogs that are not really ideal for suburbia. They take work. Will they hike with me? Absolutely. It's their favourite thing. They like the beach. But dog parks... not so much. The neighbourhood's friendly labradors and staffies? Nope. Kids running around screaming in the park? Er... They will need some distance to handle that. My Finnish lapphund, though, is an ideal suburban dog. As long as you don't mind the coat. He will certainly come hiking with us, for hours. Not much for running or swimming, but he loves everyone and he's really hard to unsettle. Friends with any stranger. He's fine off leash. It takes a bit of work to keep him responsive with strong recalls, but not as hard as it is with my podengo. I'd also go for a Samoyed, and I'd consider a Japanese spitz. I'd be careful with Finnish spitz, though. That is a hunting breed. I have only met one and she was not an easy dog. Buhund would be worth checking out if there is a litter coming up. I have a vallhund, and I don't think they are an easy suburban dog. Quite doable, but you have to appreciate they are a cattle driving breed first and foremost. Shikoku are gorgeous, but they are serious, grown-up dogs. I wouldn't consider it unless I lived in a quiet area. The more time I spend in suburbia with highly strung or not massively sociable dogs, the more I promise myself my next dog will be hyper-sociable. It comes with its own challenges (not everyone wants a dog on their head), but much easier on the dog day-to-day, and so much easier to manage. Edited April 6, 2018 by corvus Edited to add 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsAndTheMob Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, corvus said: I would not get one of these breeds for a suburban home Some spitz breeds are also a big responsibility on a rural acreage. We moved onto acres from suburbia when my husky was middle-aged. I already knew she had a powerful prey drive and lacked the tendency to stay close to me that my other dogs showed. Even so, I spent a horrible Christmas holiday searching for her in 40+ degree heat (and terrified that a farmer would shoot her) after somebody left a gate open on a Christmas Eve. After that, gates were locked. I found it sad that I could rarely let her off-lead for walks, even on my own acreage. I loved owning and training a husky - she was great around people and other dogs, and her facial expressions fascinated me because they seemed much more cat-like than dog-like - but I will never again get a dog primarily because I like the look of the breed. Edited April 6, 2018 by DogsAndTheMob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhok Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 There are more Shikoku in America and Canada then here in Aus but I wouldn't say they are readily available. Many of the dogs in the US and Canada have been imported from Japan. Shikoku are a lot of dog in a very pretty package. Most of them have been bred with hunting in mind and so they are quite prey driven. If you are on Facebook, you should check out the Nihon ken facebook group, in that group are some very knowledgable people and there are even some owners of Shikoku. I also would say that spitz in general do have some problems with being off lead dogs, and yes they do tend to be more stubborn and independent thinkers than other breeds. Some of the larger Spitzen do have same sex aggression issues too. --Lhok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanesol Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 Hi all. Probably should give an update. So in the end I didn’t end up getting a Shikoku or any of the suggested breeds either. Through a bit of luck and friendship we have added Mochi a Hokkaido dog to our family. He is a great dog and definitely has a lot of character. Some links for this curious: https://instagram.com/p/BhTWnEqHaYC/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Congratulations. Mochi is very beautiful and I hope you have a long and happy life with him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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