Hot spots between toes

[Boronia]

if you want to plough through this SBS/Michael Mosley article it may be of interest KobiD

https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/2017/01/27/daily-disease-fighting-ritual-michael-mosley-puts-turmeric-test

 

edited because I forgot to add this link about heating turmeric  https://www.turmericforhealth.com/turmeric-queries/do-you-need-to-cook-turmeric-to-get-health-benefits

Edited February 25, 2018 by Boronia

[karly101]

You could do a simple boot trial at home - every single time goes outside wears boots (also make sure not sitting or lying down at any point and they must be waterproof boots). That will  tell you if you are dealing with a contact allergy or if it's more complex than that. 

[KobiD]

23 hours ago, karly101 said:

You could do a simple boot trial at home - every single time goes outside wears boots (also make sure not sitting or lying down at any point and they must be waterproof boots). That will  tell you if you are dealing with a contact allergy or if it's more complex than that. 

Could work, except she lives all but exclusively outside..

 

The reaction she has, to whatever she has it to, affects her as a whole. Her whole body itches, albeit not uncontrollably.. but definintely is itchy. I always thought she was just a ticklish dog, but since the round on steroids it's very clear that her tickles are her itches while I scratch, and I've noticed her scratching herself more often, although not to the point where it really interrupts whatever she is doing.

 

Am seeing some improvement in relation to the feet though. The bald patches aren't looking as flaky or inflamed, and in several areas between the toes the hair is growing back. I'm going to stay with the current diet for a few more weeks and see if the overall itching decreases.
 

Environment wise, things are pretty similar. Rain comes and goes. I have taken her around the park the last couple afternoons which possibly could have exposed her to some more grasses so will see if it corresponds with a flare up at all.

[KobiD]

Still chipping away at this. Situation appears to have stabilised a bit. Occassionally she'll chew a patch a bit and a quick dip dip with the metho see's it heal quickly. Still quite a few hairless areas underside of the legs, but aren't getting any larger. Areas between the toes appear to growing hair back nicely. 

 

Not using any medication, still have the dose of apoquel to fall back on if it goes pear shaped.

 

Continuing with omega 3's 4000-6000mg daily (split morning and night), along with blackhawk fish and potato and tumeric past.

 

Have been re-introducing some other proteins back into diet along with vegetables again. Still no closer to identifying the source of the irritation though. Has anyone used NutriScan before? Is the cost justified? 

[Guest crazydoglady99]

I wish that I had done Nutriscan. Especially now since I read Dr Jean Dodds book. At the time, I thought nutriscan would take too long, and  I was desperate, so did a hair sample test thingy instead. That turned out to be a total scam, I showed a wonderful holistic vet, who reminded me half of the garbage in the report was not even possible for dogs.

 

If you do it - I'd love to know what it says.

 

My current 2 dogs are not particularly itchy dogs. Not had any real issues. I got a huge box of goat off cuts, was so bloody excited, but they both got hot spots. I knew it was from goat as it only happened when the goat came.  I gave them anti histamines and used antiseptic powder (and socks) to stop any licking/itching  and both cleared up pretty quickly. If they ever itch or get hot spots again, I would be running to do nutriscan, I'm thinking of doing it just for curiosity sake!

[karly101]

On 3/27/2018 at 9:13 PM, KobiD said:

Still chipping away at this. Situation appears to have stabilised a bit. Occassionally she'll chew a patch a bit and a quick dip dip with the metho see's it heal quickly. Still quite a few hairless areas underside of the legs, but aren't getting any larger. Areas between the toes appear to growing hair back nicely. 

 

Not using any medication, still have the dose of apoquel to fall back on if it goes pear shaped.

 

Continuing with omega 3's 4000-6000mg daily (split morning and night), along with blackhawk fish and potato and tumeric past.

 

Have been re-introducing some other proteins back into diet along with vegetables again. Still no closer to identifying the source of the irritation though. Has anyone used NutriScan before? Is the cost justified? 

If you can keep carrying on - there is a new atopy injection coming out (in Australia has been used for a couple of years already overseas) that is even more targeted (and hence most likely safer) than apoquel (given every 4-8 weeks as needed). Personally I think your money would be better directed to that than nutriscan (though cost hasn't been released yet). If the itchyness is fluctuating and the diet is stable - it seems to me more likely environment allergens are at play which are much more common as well than diet intolerance. 

[KobiD]

Been a few flare ups the last couple days. Not sure if it's the change of season or that we had a particularly windy week leading into. Have also slipped off the diet a bit and been feeding whatever we have to add to her dinner, as well as kongs so hardly exclusion.

 

 

Thanks for the info above karly. Have done some reading on it. As with all drugs a few mixed reviews.

[KobiD]

The last week I have been feeding poultry (turkey and chicken (giblets/livers) along with her normal Black Hawk Fish and Potato, and she really seems to be flaring up quite a bit with hair continuing to thin up her front legs and even some red area under one of her armpits. It's so very frustrating..

 

I have suspected for some time that perhaps her allergy is poultry related as the times I have added chicken/egg seem to align with flare ups, and originally she was on a chicken kibble and fresh egg when she first developed symptoms.

 

The move to Black Hawk saw symptoms stablise, but never really clear up. Investigating the ingredient list: Ocean Fish & Salmon Meal, Potato, Ground Rice, Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols [source of Vitamin E], Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract), Field Peas, Beet Pulp, Fish oil, Canola Oil, Egg Powder, Salt, Chicory, Essential Vitamins & Minerals (see tables), Kelp, Natural Antioxidants, Emu Oil, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Tomato Powder, Carrots, Dried Blueberries, Dandelion, Peppermint, Rosemary, Cranberries.

 

I've read that chicken fat usually doesn't trigger a reaction due to how it has been rendered down, however the egg powder could be enough to continue with the itching.

 

I've done some research and appears Meals for Mutts offer both a fish and lamb variety free of any poultry at all. A few more dollars per kg but if it fixes the issues you can't put a price on it. I'll go back to the straight Black Hawk and when this bag is finished make a change. Wish me luck.

[KobiD]

Another couple months, another update.

 

Touch wood, but things seem to be well and truly under control for the moment. Hair has grown back under the paws and is continuing to improve on her front legs. Itching is well reduced, and inflammation gone.

 

Seasonally, we've moved into the cooler months so it could be environmental. Have exposed her back to the park, streets, etc without any signs or symptoms returning which is great.

 

Diet wise, have her on a blend of Blackhawk fish and potato and MfM Kangaroo and Lamb. All poultry and beef have been removed. I did feed one beef bone which may have induced some inflammation however haven't repeated the test. Yoghurt and assorted veg seems ok too.

 

Will take some more time to see how things pan out, but at least for the moment we're going alright!

 

[KobiD]

Had a little flare up again the other day, which seems to have come under control again quite quickly. Still no closer to identifying the source. The paspalum grass is in seed at the local park, but the worming medication I had to administer around the same time also happens to be a chicken flavoured chew!

[PANDI-GIRL]

@KobiD  So sorry for all these skin problems on your dog ,  have you considered a Veganpet food, they have good scientific data for the food, I think from Melbourne Uni   

[KobiD]

Veganwhat?? Not a chance...

 

I think vegetation is the probable cause. She's rather itchy again tonight.. however no red patches or flare ups. The paspalum is seeding everywhere!

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Pleeeeeease don't feed VeganPet. Nor eat it yourself 

 

It's made of soya, corn, rice.. no vegetables oddly enough 

 

I have personally used it, many years ago before I had a single clue about canine nutrition (it's not just my ego talking). It's absolute rubbish.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by crazydoglady99

[PANDI-GIRL]

@crazydoglady99 Veganpet has scientific data on feeding dogs & cat, approved by the Uni?

could you let me know your thoughts on this food,  what if a dog has meat allergies , would this food be appropriate then,  thanks for your thoughts  

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Unfortunately it still wouldn't be appropriate. 

It's made from soy, corn ( and presumably) white rice. 

Dogs should avoid gluten, yet it's made of corn gluten as the second ingredient.

 

I don't mean to be the fun police, really I don't. Feeding my dogs this garbage was the linchpin that cost my dog her life. 

 

There's 'scientific data ' that dairy contains calcium that helps strengthens bones.. yet the countries with the highest dairy consumption also have the highest osteoporosis rates.. 

 

Lemme transcribe Dr Jean Dodds recommendation for dogs with protein allergies.

Edited August 17, 2018 by crazydoglady99

[Guest crazydoglady99]

I don't have enough thinking power to transcribe all the recommendations (3 kiddies home and I am dying of a cold )

 

(Organic) Quinoa, lentils, chickpeas, kidney beans and oats (if tolerated). All soaked to remove phytic acids, cooked & blended.

 

Mixed fruits & veg, raw or cooked, blended.

 

Supplements such as spirulina  probiotics, egg shell or calcium, coconut/cold pressed plant oils (ie hemp) & omega 3.

Edited August 17, 2018 by crazydoglady99

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Hey @KobiD why not do Nutriscan or pop booties on her to be sure?

 

That's the problem with food intolerances or environmental allergies, it's near impossible to figure out the culprit.

 

Nutriscan is AWESOME. It was worth every single cent having my 3 tested. I'll repeat it in 12months for comparison.

I reckon I've saved more $$ than the initial test cost, simply knowing which ingredients to steer clear of.

[PANDI-GIRL]

@crazydoglady99 which foods are your 3 dogs intolerant of, is it hard on you to get their diet right each day .   

I hope you feel better soon  

[KobiD]

I had considered such scans, and was seriously thinking about it, but it's hard to see if they provide accurate results or not.. and if they do highlight something that is out of my control leaves me in a position no better than before.

 

Diet wise she is on something that works. Very stable.. hair has grown back over the last few months and she's not itchy. I'm also more aware of when she does have a flare up and nip it in the bud rather than letting it escalate. If it is environmental, I don't think its contact allergy.. more likely inhalant and as such harder to manage. 

[Guest crazydoglady99]

FYI if you think beef is an issue, you should stay away from any cows milk dairy. That is the advice from my local holistic vet.